Hornby 2023 - New tooling - DELTIC prototype - Hornby Dublo

[rogerzilla]

10 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

AIUI, the housing was included in the prototype with a view to it also being demonstrated in export markets, but it never accommodated a lamp, Mars or otherwise. 

That's correct, but the intention was to create a place for a Mars light to be fitted.  EE obviously had an eye on the North American market, which was a bit silly considering that EMD had it sewn up with their proven 2-stroke engines.

[zr2498]

7 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

For those who don’t get it, this is why this loco will sell:

 

 

It is the thing that Binns Road implied they’d make, but never did.

Blimey - that's an heck of an increase from 6 old pence to £320.99!

[cessna152towser]

8 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

For those who don’t get it, this is why this loco will sell:

Certainly a nostalgia factor and I do still have a copy of that catalogue.

However, two years to wait until delivery and a price tag of 320.99 might not entice your archetypal Hornby-Dublo fan who is now an old age pensioner.

No thanks, I'll make do with my original Hornby-Dublo D9012 Crepello.

 

[zr2498]

Just now, cessna152towser said:

Certainly a nostalgia factor and I do still have a copy of that catalogue.

However, two years to wait until delivery and a price tag of 320.99 might not entice your archetypal Hornby-Dublo fan who is now an old age pensioner.

No thanks, I'll make do with my original Hornby-Dublo D9012 Crepello.

 

2 years for delivery. Likely to be a price increase over that period.

It might be worthwhile if more was known about the working fans, sound system potential (what speaker arrangement) and other upgrades over the excellent Bachmann model.

[MikeParkin65]

12 minutes ago, zr2498 said:

2 years for delivery. Likely to be a price increase over that period.

It might be worthwhile if more was known about the working fans, sound system potential (what speaker arrangement) and other upgrades over the excellent Bachmann model.

Worth viewing the Hornby Magazine YouTube presentation for more explanation. I do think I'm wrong about getting it all for the £320 rrp tho - now think this is the price for DCC ready.

[Dunsignalling]

24 minutes ago, cessna152towser said:

Certainly a nostalgia factor and I do still have a copy of that catalogue.

However, two years to wait until delivery and a price tag of 320.99 might not entice your archetypal Hornby-Dublo fan who is now an old age pensioner.

No thanks, I'll make do with my original Hornby-Dublo D9012 Crepello.

 

There's pensioners and there's pensioners.

 

The current generation of us may be the last in which "normal mortals" are widely in receipt of final-salary occupational pensions.

 

John

Edited January 10, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[JohnR]

1 hour ago, zr2498 said:

2 years for delivery. Likely to be a price increase over that period.

It might be worthwhile if more was known about the working fans, sound system potential (what speaker arrangement) and other upgrades over the excellent Bachmann model.

 

If you pre-order from Hornby themselves, they will hold the pre-order price. 

[kernowtim]

Ace trains have the prototype deltic due soon in O gauge , they have a fictional LNER apple green version too, which could be a possibility for Hornby!

(sound fitted, all metal and £720)

[RedgateModels]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

There's pensioners and there's pensioners.

 

The current generation of us may be the last in which "normal mortals" are widely in receipt of final-salary occupational pensions.

 

John

was watching the prog about the revamp of Claridges last night, there is a retired bookie who has taken breakfast there every day for 50 years……

[RedgateModels]

10 minutes ago, kernowtim said:

Ace trains have the prototype deltic due soon in O gauge , they have a fictional LNER apple green version too, which could be a possibility for Hornby!

(sound fitted, all metal and £720)

What! 
 

ffs my wallet has just died of a heart attack 😂

[Delta_Who]

I heard an argument questioning Hornby's return-on-investment.

Bare in mind, there was a Q&A by Simon Kohler about 2 years ago. In this video, he was asked about any models he regretted not producing due to other manufacturers. One of the answers he gave certainly alluded that Hornby had Pursued the DP1 as early as 2014, possibly earlier. The un-named project had just finished the drawing/design stage before it was canned. So it could be possible that actually... 10 years later... this would be an opportune moment to re-coup on those design costs.

[Vanguard 5374]

We have had a good few Neverwazza models from KR, Rapido and even Hornby now, so I do wonder if a Canadian spec model could be done for the planned events that never were? Buffers removed, panels plated over, knuckle coupling, relevant fittings changed etc etc. 
 

Yes the planned testing never happened, but given how low the production runs are on these models it could be a good idea for another run in the future.

[melmoth]

1 hour ago, Delta_Who said:

Bare in mind, there was a Q&A by Simon Kohler about 2 years ago. In this video, he was asked about any models he regretted not producing due to other manufacturers. One of the answers he gave certainly alluded that Hornby had Pursued the DP1 as early as 2014, possibly earlier. The un-named project had just finished the drawing/design stage before it was canned. So it could be possible that actually... 10 years later... this would be an opportune moment to re-coup on those design costs.

 

Or perhaps it gives Hornby the opportunity to celebrate the tenth non-existent anniversary of  a "Great Disppointment" by cancelling loads of things they've previously announced...

[Delta_Who]

2 minutes ago, melmoth said:

 

Or perhaps it gives Hornby the opportunity to celebrate the tenth non-existent anniversary of  a "Great Disppointment" by cancelling loads of things they've previously announced...

 

???

[melmoth]

49 minutes ago, Delta_Who said:

 

???

 

Sorry.

 

1. This year Hornby are releasing a ridiculous number of streamlined locomotives to celebrate "The Great Gathering" of A4s, which took place ten years ago. Excellent event though it was, it does seem a bit of a shark-jump so far as anniversaries go.

2. As you point out, it's ten years or thereabouts since Hornby cancelled Some Potentially Big Thing.

3. Hornby have loads of stuff that has been previously announced and which wouldn't even be on the horizon if the earth was flat.

4. My comment attempted to (and obviously failed in your case) to satirize that.

[Delta_Who]

5 minutes ago, melmoth said:

 

Sorry.

 

1. This year Hornby are releasing a ridiculous number of streamlined locomotives to celebrate "The Great Gathering" of A4s, which took place ten years ago. Excellent event though it was, it does seem a bit of a shark-jump so far as anniversaries go.

2. As you point out, it's ten years or thereabouts since Hornby cancelled Some Potentially Big Thing.

3. Hornby have loads of stuff that has been previously announced and which wouldn't even be on the horizon if the earth was flat.

4. My comment attempted to (and obviously failed in your case) to satirize that.

 

Ah, I'm "Back on track" now :P

[Michael Hodgson]

Will it be avilable in purple?

[adb968008]

14 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

This is something that those who don’t understand it will likely never understand, because like so much else about toy trains it’s irrational, often wrapped in post-hoc rationalisation.

 

I’m a metalophile, and find it odd that people are satisfied with plastic!

 

Im not much into Dublo specifically, but the other thing to be aware of is that most Dublo collectors run their trains, in fact they tend to give them a right thrashing, roaring round 15” curves, pulling draggy old coaches, for hours at a time, the great pride of real HD being that locos sixty or seventy years old happily do that with only basic maintenance and lubrication.

 

 

Ive got to admit I like some of my old Hornby dublo stuff.

Ive an 8f, Castle, Rebuilt MN, Cobo and my fathers Duchesses and std4….

They dont half run well, but the metal on metal impact sounds pretty good too.

 

 

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Will it be avilable in purple?

Well it depends on the moons angle in relation to the earth, and its gravitational pull at 11.30am precisely on the 15th solstice of the reflection of sirius-B s trail towards Haleys comet … and how much the machine operator had to drink the night before….

 

it could be Improved engine blue.

You just dont know what your going to get.

 

This is brown apparently, so anything is possible.

https://www.hattons.co.uk/619194/hornby_r3960_gwr_terrier_trainpack_with_class_a1x_terrier_0_6_0t_5_portishead_in_gwr_green_wi/stockdetail

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by adb968008

[JSpencer]

13 hours ago, Delta_Who said:

I heard an argument questioning Hornby's return-on-investment.

Bare in mind, there was a Q&A by Simon Kohler about 2 years ago. In this video, he was asked about any models he regretted not producing due to other manufacturers. One of the answers he gave certainly alluded that Hornby had Pursued the DP1 as early as 2014, possibly earlier. The un-named project had just finished the drawing/design stage before it was canned. So it could be possible that actually... 10 years later... this would be an opportune moment to re-coup on those design costs.

 

The Bachmann/NRM was announced in 2007 and it had appeared on the shelves by 2012 at the latest. Unless they started on it prior to 2007, I am not sure how they could be disappointed.

 

Anyway, a couple of pictures of the Bachmann NRM version compared to an Accurascale production 55. Interestingly the nose shape of this DP1 model is closer to Bachmann's production 55 but I "think" that the nose shape (aside from the big US style light aperture) between DP1 and the class 55 was identical (TBC by a deltic expert!). If so, Hornby would have a chance to correct it.

 

DP1 was slightly shorter than the 55, which is shown correctly here:

 

 

[adb968008]

19 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

 

The Bachmann/NRM was announced in 2007 and it had appeared on the shelves by 2012 at the latest. Unless they started on it prior to 2007, I am not sure how they could be disappointed.

 

Anyway, a couple of pictures of the Bachmann NRM version compared to an Accurascale production 55. Interestingly the nose shape of this DP1 model is closer to Bachmann's production 55 but I "think" that the nose shape (aside from the big US style light aperture) between DP1 and the class 55 was identical (TBC by a deltic expert!). If so, Hornby would have a chance to correct it.

 

DP1 was slightly shorter than the 55, which is shown correctly here:

 

 

This is Hornby we are talking about.

 

A shortened chassis neednt be an issue, if they put a shortened body on it.

https://www.hattons.co.uk/directory/versiondetails/1950/hornby_dublo_oo_class_55_deltic
 

indeed even the current ex-Lima one is a little deficient below the frames… nothing stopped them making a new frame for it over the last 20 years.

A tooling isnt cheap, you’d think they would expect the same levels of sales from a Deltic than they would a Duchess… a prototype of a model thats already done, done, done and redone, with really only 1 livery seems a bit of a gamble, without a wider plan to capitalise on… unless we really are going to get red, green, purple, orange, pink and green DP1’s.

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by adb968008

[jjb1970]

Over the years I've been in a position to choose between diecast metal and plastic locomotives, for example N27 (plastic) or MTC (metal) model of the SS7E locomotive, and Tomix (plastic) or Tenshodo (metal) EF66. In most cases I have selected the metal option despite most of the metal options being more expensive (though usually not much) and levels of detail either being equivalent or if anything a bit better for the plastic options (although in most case both alternatives are multi-media, using photoetched and fine metal wire for details) but I like the feel and finish of metal models. Note I am not saying they are better, just that I like them more.

[Dunsignalling]

22 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

 

The Bachmann/NRM was announced in 2007 and it had appeared on the shelves by 2012 at the latest. Unless they started on it prior to 2007, I am not sure how they could be disappointed.

 

Anyway, a couple of pictures of the Bachmann NRM version compared to an Accurascale production 55. Interestingly the nose shape of this DP1 model is closer to Bachmann's production 55 but I "think" that the nose shape (aside from the big US style light aperture) between DP1 and the class 55 was identical (TBC by a deltic expert!). If so, Hornby would have a chance to correct it.

 

DP1 was slightly shorter than the 55, which is shown correctly here:

 

 

 

As a one-off test-bed/demonstrator, the bodywork of DP1 was constructed by panelling over a "birdcage" framework of steel strip.

 

The small number of production locos ordered by BR, led to them (and subsequently DP2) being made likewise and (reputedly) no two were exactly the same size or shape.

 

John

[JSpencer]

25 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

This is Hornby we are talking about.

 

A shortened chassis neednt be an issue, if they put a shortened body on it.

https://www.hattons.co.uk/directory/versiondetails/1950/hornby_dublo_oo_class_55_deltic
 

indeed even the current ex-Lima one is a little deficient below the frames… nothing stopped them making a new frame for it over the last 20 years.

A tooling isnt cheap, you’d think they would expect the same levels of sales from a Deltic than they would a Duchess… a prototype of a model thats already done, done, done and redone, with really only 1 livery seems a bit of a gamble, without a wider plan to capitalise on… unless we really are going to get red, green, purple, orange, pink and green DP1’s.

 

 

It would be a rather odd combo though. A high end detailed chassis from a one off prototype with a low end all new class 55 body on top that is not even scale length!  (I know the railroad A4 is a close enough similar monster).

If they were to do an all new budget railroad deltic then it would be better tooling up a scale length body and chassis using molded on parts instead of the complex array of separately fitted ones on a high end model. 

 

I agree they have taken a risk though with a prototype that was previously well done,  and certainly they need to recover all development costs with the first run as re-runs won't happen for a loooonggg time. 

[Mike_Walker]

Regarding possible overseas markets for Deltics, my sadly departed friend Jim Boyd was of the firm opinion that if any North American railroad tried out the prototype Deltic it would have been the Pennsylvania as they could never resist trying anything that was a " bit different" or an oddball - just look at their early diesel roster.  Can't you just picture it in Tuscan red with gold pinstripes working on the New York & Long Branch alongside those CNJ double-ended Baldwins?

 

Jim also used to claim that those railroads that roster Fairbanks-Morse units with their opposed piston engines did so to provide a penance for disgraced mechanics to work on.  Just imagine what level of misdemeanour would have to be committed to be given a Deltic to work on...  BTW, Jim was an EMD field service representative before becoming a rail journalist so perhaps just a tad biased.