RCH 1907 Private Owner Wagons - with added 2024 range.

[Covkid]

6 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Scots Nationalists been at that one?

 

And to prove I am not totally dedicated to Rapido UK, here is a Hattons Andrew Barclay with a (perhaps appropriate) St Andrews mineral

 

railphotoprints.uk/p388843185/hA099F210#ha099f210

[Covkid]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Scots Nationalists been at that one?

 

Incidentally, should have mentioned that all that is required for Robert Nelson No 4 is a set of nameplate and numberplates and a Hollybank No3 - identical livery !!!

[RapidoCorbs]

43 minutes ago, Covkid said:

 

Incidentally, should have mentioned that all that is required for Robert Nelson No 4 is a set of nameplate and numberplates and a Hollybank No3 - identical livery !!!

 

+ the handrail over the smokebox + the steps cut into the bunker

[Covkid]

16 hours ago, RapidoCorbs said:

 

+ the handrail over the smokebox + the steps cut into the bunker

 

Oh yes.  Those bunker steps.  I had forgotten them !!!

[Pteremy]

On 16/04/2023 at 12:56, Pteremy said:

 

At the end of volume 3 in Larkin's 'Acquired Wagons' series, which deals with 1923 spec wagons, is a promise of coverage of pre grouping and 1907 spec wagons. Volume 5 is about to be published, with a focus on 'open goods', so maybe they will be swept up into that. But I think that there are further volumes 6 and 7 in the pipeline, so it maybe that one of those will provide a better fit.

 

Alas Volume 5 says that pre 1923 PO coal wagons will be covered by a later volume. 

[sir douglas]

Though I don't work in 4mm, its great to see a rtr producer taking PO wagons seriously, unlike some other big names who slap on any livery they can find onto a generic wagon moulding they've already been using for years

[Wickham Green too]

Regrettably, of the wagons supposedly portrayed that I've tracked down in published literature, one dates from 1903, one was a 1904 reconstruction of a dumb-buffered wagon, five were 15' wagons and five others were 16' rather than 16'6'' ( though that might be internal in some cases ). Others differ in significant physical details from Rapido's offer.

Most of the others are plausible though a number are obviously too early for my layout and I've not looked into them further.

 

 

[MarkSG]

5 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Regrettably, of the wagons supposedly portrayed that I've tracked down in published literature, one dates from 1903, one was a 1904 reconstruction of a dumb-buffered wagon, five were 15' wagons and five others were 16' rather than 16'6'' ( though that might be internal in some cases ). Others differ in significant physical details from Rapido's offer.

 

Any chance you could identify which wagons you think are wrong, and cite your sources?

[Compound2632]

8 minutes ago, MarkSG said:

Any chance you could identify which wagons you think are wrong, and cite your sources?

 

I expect he can give you the page numbers in Keith Turton's volumes. I thought of doing such an analysis myself but thought better of it. Reference to Joe Greaves' index on the Lightmoor Press website will give you a starting point:

https://lightmoor.co.uk/BDLpdf_files/Private_Owner_Wagons_Index.pdf

[Wickham Green too]

That is, indeed, where I started .... I don't think I have AT1 or AT3 and AW, KT4, KT7, KT11 & KT12  are hiding from me at present.

John Smith, Awsworth and Lister wagons don't seem to be in the Lightmoor index ( there's a different Lister, tho.).

[rapidoandy]

Its sample time!

 

 

 

 

 

Enjoy!

[fulton]

Have been following this, looking to place an order, maybe I have missed it, but which liveries are not suitable for pre 1923, my particular interest is SECR circ. 1920.

[Pre Grouping fan]

2 hours ago, fulton said:

Have been following this, looking to place an order, maybe I have missed it, but which liveries are not suitable for pre 1923, my particular interest is SECR circ. 1920.

 

Probably any of the liveries would be suitable as they would have got all over the country.

 

Rails of Sheffield have also commissioned SECR livery versions of these which are almost identical to what the SECR had. 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

Probably any of the liveries would be suitable as they would have got all over the country.

 

Not all liveries are appropriate for all dates.

[NZRedBaron]

So, I admit I'm tempted.... but aside from the obvious mineral traffic (and possibly seasonal agriculture loads), what might these wagons have been used for?

[Compound2632]

5 hours ago, NZRedBaron said:

So, I admit I'm tempted.... but aside from the obvious mineral traffic (and possibly seasonal agriculture loads), what might these wagons have been used for?

 

Mineral traffic - coal, coal, coal, and nothing but coal.

 

I can't see any agricultural use, at least not when they were in their prime. Isn't sugar beet in old mineral wagons a post-WWII thing?

 

Those belonging to collieries and working to ports (almost exculsively end-door types) might be back-loaded from the port with timber for pit props. But the volume of pit props imported was very much less than the volume of coal exported. 

 

Other minerals apart from coal - i.e. coke, lime, limestone, and other stone and stone products - could be conveyed in PO wagons but not, generally, ones intended for coal.

 

Pretty much all non-mineral traffic was conveyed in railway-company owned wagons.

 

But if you are looking for variety in your loads for these wagons, consider the infinite varieties of coal - harder, softer, big lumps, graded smaller lumps of various sizes - there was a whole descriptive vocabulary now lost to us. what were nuts or cobbles?

 

 

[Embedded link to DY2806, Cricklewood Sidings, March 1905, at the Derby Registers pages of the MRS website.]

[NZRedBaron]

I'll take your word for it then.

 

But on the subject, are there any plans to have one or more of five-plankers be produced in rail company liveries?

[Dungrange]

10 minutes ago, NZRedBaron said:

But on the subject, are there any plans to have one or more of five-plankers be produced in rail company liveries?

 

Which of the rail companies ordered five plank wagons from private contractors (ie ones not built to their own in house designs)?

[Compound2632]

17 minutes ago, NZRedBaron said:

But on the subject, are there any plans to have one or more of five-plankers be produced in rail company liveries?

 

The SE&CR 7-plankers have been mentioned. But otherwise, by and large, the railway companies continued to build mineral wagons to their own designs up to the grouping. It was only with the 1923 RCH specification, which allowed far less latitutde in design than previously, that the railway companies - or at least, the LMS and LNER built or bought large quantities of mineral wagons that were indistinguishable from those being supplied to private owners. 

 

Also, by 1907, the railway companies were leading the way with 12-ton wagons, for which the RCH had promulgated specifications. (One has to remember that the Railway Clearing House was, in this respect, no more or less than the railway companies acting in unison.) So they were not, by and large, to be found building 5-plank wagons for mineral traffic by 1907.

 

As @Dungrange says:

  

2 minutes ago, Dungrange said:

Which of the rail companies ordered five plank wagons from private contractors (ie ones not built to their own in house designs)?

 

Whether or not he intends to ask this rhetorically, the question can be treated so: expecting the answer "None".

Edited June 3, 2023 by Compound2632

[Andy Hayter]

1 hour ago, NZRedBaron said:

I'll take your word for it then.

 

But on the subject, are there any plans to have one or more of five-plankers be produced in rail company liveries?

 

In addition to the GW and GC ones already announced?

 

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/rch-1907-private-owner-wagons/

 

[NZRedBaron]

36 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

In addition to the GW and GC ones already announced?

 

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/rch-1907-private-owner-wagons/

 

Well yes, but those are 7 plankers; I meant 5 planks.

[Compound2632]

8 hours ago, NZRedBaron said:

Well yes, but those are 7 plankers; I meant 5 planks.

 

To which the answer, clarifying my previous post, is: none.

 

I dare say someone will turn up an exception.

 

Note that the GW and GC-liveried wagons are representations not of wagons built by or for those companies but hired bu those companies from the wagon builders, on similar terms to those which any private owner would hire their wagons. This is indicated in both cases by the numbers having an initial 0.

[greatcoleswoodhalt]

Two further exclusives announced by Derails; one comical and one in the livery of SOMERSET COLLIERIES LTD, Radstock, Somerset.

[Buhar]

27 minutes ago, jafcreasey said:

Two further exclusives announced by Derails; one comical and one in the livery of SOMERSET COLLIERIES LTD, Radstock, Somerset.

If the Grumpy one had been a bit more subtle I might have succumbed. Something like GRUMPY then Oldbloke Colliery.

Alan 

[Skinnylinny]

On 02/06/2023 at 14:26, fulton said:

Have been following this, looking to place an order, maybe I have missed it, but which liveries are not suitable for pre 1923, my particular interest is SECR circ. 1920.

It's often quite difficult to be precise about liveries and time periods for private-owner wagons, as it's fairly common for there to only be one known photograph of any particular wagon. However, there are some hints one can glean from the livery which can rule out certain time periods. 

For example, the Commuted Charge symbol (two black letters C on a yellow background) was introduced in (I believe) 1926, so any wagon featuring this would not suit your pre-1923 setting. 
Obviously any wagon which features a "Big Four" company as part of the "Empty to" or home station is in a post-grouping livery, so would also not suit you. 

Taking a quick look at the list of wagons in the main range, specifically looking for wagons that might have been seen on the SE&CR in the early ‘20s, I would suggest:

Colliery-owned wagons which could appear anywhere in the country:
https://rapidotrains.co.uk/product/griff/

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/product/wadsworths/

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/product/south-leicester/

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/product/bullcroft-main-colliery/

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/product/edinburgh-collieries/

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/product/annesley-colliery/

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/product/bwlch-7-plank/

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/product/glass-houghton-collieries/

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/product/ormiston-coal-company/
 

 

There are accounts of Scottish colliery wagons being found in the south of England, because when local coal was used for hop-drying in Kent, the brewers found the coal had high levels of arsenic. Coal from certain collieries in Scotland had much lower arsenic quantities, so was highly prized for brewing use in Kent!

 

Then you might have any coal merchants’ wagons from outside the area you’re modelling, which have been loaded with coal somewhere on the SE&CR (although these would likely not appear at a branch line terminus, as they’d go fairly directly from colliery to merchant):

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/product/alfred-pratt/

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/product/john-allbutt/

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/product/albert-usher/

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/product/john-j-tims/

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/product/ernest-thomas-jenkins/



I would check exact build dates for these wagons if I could, but I'm currently away from my reference books, so this is my best guess!

 

Hope this helps!