Rapido SECR O1 0-6-0 (OO Gauge)

[JSpencer]

 

4 hours ago, rapidoTom said:

 

We think, based on photos of it in '61, that it might have been spruced up a bit before the railtours, including fitting the later buffers with the larger heads. It may have spent less time in this specification, but the reason we chose it is that was famous for doing the Hawkhurst closure railtours - in its final configuration, if you will.

 

That CAD will be 65, as preserved. 65 had a rebuilt smokebox at some point in the 1940s, where it lost one set of rivets - this is reflected on the models in several of our liveries. The other "full Wainwright" version (373 in pre-grouping spec) has the extra set of rivets as they were originally built (or originally re-built from Os!), as do most of the models we're offering.

 

On Page 248 (vol 2) of Finch and Garrets "The East Kent Railway" there is a photo of 31065 taken in July 1959 and she definately had the big buffers then. She still kept them later when in green (Maunsell SECR ish) and numbered 65 at Ashford prior to being "dispersed". 

 

[rapidoTom]

1 hour ago, fulton said:

modern RTR locos do not seem easy to convert.

 

55 minutes ago, brightspark said:

That is what I am wondering. I could see these on a couple of layouts I am involved with one in EM the other in P4.

Any thoughts Tom?

 

The axles on the latest drawings are plain 2mm dia. rod if that helps.

 

53 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Odd how locos disappear off the radar - I've tracked down twenty four photos of '65 so far : one in the 1920's, then nothing 'til seven in 1953/4, no more 'til nine in April 1960 then seven going to or on the Hawkhurst bash ..... we'll probably never know exactly what it was like in between !!?!

 

We found one of s1065 in "BRITISH RAILWAYS" Southern-style lettering from 1948, and have included that in our livery list. All the running no./livery combinations we're making have photos of them in the depicted condition.

[Wickham Green too]

2 hours ago, JSpencer said:

On Page 248 (vol 2) of Finch and Garrets "The East Kent Railway" there is a photo of 31065 taken in July 1959 and she definately had the big buffers then. She still kept them later when in green (Maunsell SECR ish) and numbered 65 at Ashford prior to being "dispersed". 

May I reiterate - she gained big / stepped / Maunsell buffers on the front some time in the '50s but retained the small / taper / SECR buffers on the tender 'til some time between April '60 and June '61.

 

1 hour ago, rapidoTom said:

... We found one of s1065 in "BRITISH RAILWAYS" Southern-style lettering from 1948, and have included that in our livery list. ...

Thanks - that'll suit my layout period nicely ( numbered from 28/2/48 ) and I'll probably order that and 1379 when I pluck up courage to consign my two - unstarted - Jidenco kits to the skip !

[Jack P]

5 hours ago, rapidoTom said:

The axles on the latest drawings are plain 2mm dia. rod if that helps.

 

It does! Do you know the width of the narrowest point between the splashers at any location (where the wheels need to go)? That was an ugly stumbling block for me in the SECR D and D1 conversions to EM.

[phil-b259]

While the O1 does look lovely can I put in a plea for Rapido to reconsider the finish of the dome on the SECR liveried examples.

 

Go and look at any photo of no. 65 on the Bluebell and you will see how highly polished the dome is (to the extent that a person can easily see their reflection in it close up) and quite frankly brass paint simply doesn’t come close to giving a realistic finish on what id a standout feature on the real loco.

 

As much as the purists might grumble the brutal truth when you compare models to the real thing, the electroplated domes on Dapol and Hornby SECR locos look light years better than ‘brass paint’ efforts  of Hatton’s and Bachmann….

[Wickham Green too]

 

2 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

..., the electroplated domes on Dapol and Hornby SECR locos look light years better than ‘brass paint’ efforts  of Hatton’s and Bachmann….

Maybe Hattons & Bachmann ( and Rapido ) have waxed their domes to prevent them tarnishing in the sea air - as on No.9 : - 

 

Douglas ; 3/7/98

 

[phil-b259]

40 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

 

Maybe Hattons & Bachmann ( and Rapido ) have waxed their domes to prevent them tarnishing in the sea air - as on No.9 : - 

 

Douglas ; 3/7/98

 

Well as far as I know the Bluebell don’t wax the domes of their ex SECR locos….

[cctransuk]

3 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

While the O1 does look lovely can I put in a plea for Rapido to reconsider the finish of the dome on the SECR liveried examples.

 

Go and look at any photo of no. 65 on the Bluebell and you will see how highly polished the dome is (to the extent that a person can easily see their reflection in it close up) and quite frankly brass paint simply doesn’t come close to giving a realistic finish on what id a standout feature on the real loco.

 

As much as the purists might grumble the brutal truth when you compare models to the real thing, the electroplated domes on Dapol and Hornby SECR locos look light years better than ‘brass paint’ efforts  of Hatton’s and Bachmann….

 

Depends whether you want a representation of a preserved loco that is lovingly polished at least daily, or one as it would have been 'back in the day' - clean, but not pampered.

 

CJI.

[phil-b259]

8 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Depends whether you want a representation of a preserved loco that is lovingly polished at least daily, or one as it would have been 'back in the day' - clean, but not pampered.

 

CJI.

A fair point in some respects but it’s important to remember that at the period when the ornate wainwright livery was in use by the SECR was also a period when in manual labour to undertake cleaning was not only plentiful, it was cheap to employ.

 

As such I would expect that the difference between preservation and a loco in circa 1910 condition is not as great as many like to think it is (nobody still being alive from 1910 and with many peoples impressions of locos cleanliness being of the post WW2 era)

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by phil-b259

[JSpencer]

2 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

A fair point in some respects but it’s important to remember that at the period where the orange wainwright livery was in use manual Labour was plentiful and cheap to employ.

 

As such I would expect that the difference between preservation and a loco in circa 1910 condition is not as great as many like to think it is (nobody still being alive from 1910 and with many peoples impressions of locos cleanliness being of the post WW2 era)

 

 

Indeed some drivers did complain about the shinyness of the domes. Later Wainwright painted them green as well when he simpliflied the livery around 1910.

[cctransuk]

8 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

A fair point in some respects but it’s important to remember that at the period when the ornate wainwright livery was in use by the SECR was also a period when in manual labour to undertake cleaning was not only plentiful, it was cheap to employ.

 

As such I would expect that the difference between preservation and a loco in circa 1910 condition is not as great as many like to think it is (nobody still being alive from 1910 and with many peoples impressions of locos cleanliness being of the post WW2 era)

 

 

It doesn't matter how shiny the dome cover was when it left the shed - beneath it was the actual dome, which was very hot.

 

Polished brass dulls very quickly when hot - quite apart from the smuts, ash, smoke and steam in which it spent a great deal of time.

 

CJI.

[Wickham Green too]

I must point out that No.11 in my photo, above, was in steam. ( and, before anyone says, not technically 'preserved' )

[cctransuk]

2 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

I must point out that No.11 in my photo, above, was in steam. ( and, before anyone says, not technically 'preserved' )

 

I would refer doubters to the dome cover on No.9 - THAT is what your run-of-the-mill freight loco would have looked like.

 

Even in the good old / bad old days, Brasso (or pumice powder) would have been reserved for passenger locos, at the very most.

 

CJI.

[Fair Oak Junction]

At one point I owned both a Bachmann C and a Hornby H in SECR livery, and honestly I preferred the Bachmann brass effect.
While I agree that the Hornby one captures the highly polished effect of the real thing better, from a visual point of view I feel the Bachmann effect works better on a model.

And considering how many people who own the Bachmann C are likely to buy the Rapido O1, I would certainly want them to match each other in terms of finish.

But as with all things, each to their own.

[NHY 581]

6 minutes ago, Obsidian Quarry said:

At one point I owned both a Bachmann C and a Hornby H in SECR livery, and honestly I preferred the Bachmann brass effect.
While I agree that the Hornby one captures the highly polished effect of the real thing better, from a visual point of view I feel the Bachmann effect works better on a model.

And considering how many people who own the Bachmann C are likely to buy the Rapido O1, I would certainly want them to match each other in terms of finish.

But as with all things, each to their own.

 

 

Totally agree. The finish on the dome/ base of the safety valves of Hornby H and those of the Dapol D class are not right, even for well polished parts. 

 

I have both 263 and 308 and when then start their service on the planned layout, those 'polished' bits will be well and truly toned down, along with those of the D class. 

 

I'm so glad Rapido have avoided this. 

 

Rob. 

 

 

[No Decorum]

4 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

While the O1 does look lovely can I put in a plea for Rapido to reconsider the finish of the dome on the SECR liveried examples.

 

Go and look at any photo of no. 65 on the Bluebell and you will see how highly polished the dome is (to the extent that a person can easily see their reflection in it close up) and quite frankly brass paint simply doesn’t come close to giving a realistic finish on what id a standout feature on the real loco.

 

As much as the purists might grumble the brutal truth when you compare models to the real thing, the electroplated domes on Dapol and Hornby SECR locos look light years better than ‘brass paint’ efforts  of Hatton’s and Bachmann….

Whilst I agree with you, plated versus painted brass domes are as controversial as flangeless wheels on Hornby Pacifics. As Obsidian Quarry says, each to their own.

[No Decorum]

2 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

 

 

Totally agree. The finish on the dome/ base of the safety valves of Hornby H and those of the Dapol D class are not right, even for well polished parts. 

 

I have both 263 and 308 and when then start their service on the planned layout, those 'polished' bits will be well and truly toned down, along with those of the D class. 

 

I'm so glad Rapido have avoided this. 

 

Rob. 

 

 

On the other hand, sparkly paint doesn’t look like polished metal; even dulled polished metal. I think you have hit on a good solution. You start with a metal finish and then tone it down. That way, it still looks like metal but won’t be too bright.

[whart57]

Re: the Sheppey Light Railway, I've dug out my copy of Bradley and the only solid reference of an O or O1 on the Sheppey Light was No.99, an un-rebuilt O based at Faversham. Just after Grouping the suburban services in south London were intensified and that meant 0-4-4T locos of classes Q and R1 had to be pulled back from local duties in Kent. Q class number 73 went back to suburbia and O class 99 took over on Sheppey.

 

The other thing Bradley does say is that O1s were increasingly rostered for slow passenger work. Relevant here is that one of their regular trips was Strood to Sheerness. Numbers 3 and 380 were allocated to Strood in the 1920s, and later on 1003, 1007, 1238, 1396 and 1434 were at Gillingham (SR numbers were 1000 plus the SECR number). If an O1 were to drift over to Leysdown because of a loco failure or similar it would likely be one of them.

[Wickham Green too]

3 hours ago, cctransuk said:

Even in the good old / bad old days, Brasso (or pumice powder) would have been reserved for passenger locos, at the very most.

... just as elaborate fully lined out liveries were reserved for passenger locos ??!?

[cctransuk]

19 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

... just as elaborate fully lined out liveries were reserved for passenger locos ??!?

 

Please don't put words into my mouth.

 

My point remains - polished or not when going off shed, the unpainted brass would rapidly go dull.

 

It's a fact that can be observed on any preserved railway that regularly polishes brass fittings.

 

CJI.

[Compound2632]

I recall reading a tale - probably in O.S. Nock - of an enthusiast eyeing up a Wainwright D or E or some such in SR days and looking at the dome, commenting to the crew "I remember when I was a lad..." to which the driver said "So do I. I had to polish the ----ing things!"

Edited November 12, 2023 by Compound2632

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said:

... just as elaborate fully lined out liveries were reserved for passenger locos ??!?

 

The full Wainwright livery, especially when extended to to goods/mixed traffic engines, goes some way to explaining why the SECR, devised to salvage the financial wreckage of its constituents, continued to teeter on the edge of bankruptcy until the grouping.

 

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

My point remains - polished or not when going off shed, the unpainted brass would rapidly go dull.

No.11 has been simmering & shunting on Douglas shed for who knows how long .... No.10 is arriving back from a round trip to Port Erin.

[NHY 581]

6 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

No.11 has been simmering & shunting on Douglas shed for who knows how long .... No.10 is arriving back from a round trip to Port Erin.

 

 

You're labouring a point here. It matters not a jot. . Some prefer polished, arguably a tacky plastic finish as applied by Hornby and Dapol. I for one don't but we're all different. 

 

Just be grateful we can look forward to yet another SE&CR loco to add to our respective studs. 

 

If you wish to continue jousting with John, maybe start a new thread but you're seemingly making a mountain out of a dome here. 

 

Let's move on. 

 

Rob. 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by NHY 581
No i in grateful

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

If you wish to continue jousting with John

 

In polished armour, I hope.