GreenGiraffe22 Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 I don't suppose any of the oracles on here know any date ranges for when those later 1xxx Southern versions wore those liveries? I'll likely get all 3 anyway, I'm just interested 😊 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted November 17, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, GreenGiraffe22 said: I don't suppose any of the oracles on here know any date ranges for when those later 1xxx Southern versions wore those liveries? I'll likely get all 3 anyway, I'm just interested 😊 IIRC The change from using the ‘A’ prefix to adding 1000 to the numbers occurred in 1933. Not sure how long it took for the change to take effect but as the base livery was basically unchanged then re numbering could have been done without the need for a full repaint so could have been fairly rapid. I understand the green lining was dropped a couple of years earlier than that though. At some stage in 1938 the revised Bulleid typeface and removal of the loco numbers from the tender occurred but with WW2 slowing the pace of change not every loco would have got it before nationalisation. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Fair Oak Junction Posted November 17, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 17, 2023 8 minutes ago, GreenGiraffe22 said: I don't suppose any of the oracles on here know any date ranges for when those later 1xxx Southern versions wore those liveries? I'll likely get all 3 anyway, I'm just interested 😊 There are people who know a lot more about it than me, so I'm happy to be corrected, but as far as I know: Unlined black with Maunsell lettering was about 1934/45 Unlined black with Bulleid lettering was around 1938ish Unlined black with sunshine lettering was 1942ish But all three would be suitable for the war as not all locos were repainted 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 No O1s are recorded as retaining Maunsell livery 'til Nationalisation but a number might well have got through the war. The early Bulleid lettering was only applied on black locos between September 1939 & September 1941 so No.1046 probably survived the war thus - and might have lasted 'til withdrawal in 1950 without a full repaint. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil gollin Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 . Well, 😏 , for the LSWR and LBSC lines (not companies) there is still the preserved 4-COR which can be done in Southern, early and late (?) BR green (+ yellow ends) and BR blue. Readily available - last I know at the storage facility down on Hornby's site. . 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 6 minutes ago, phil gollin said: ... the preserved 4-COR ... Apart from the fact that one or more coaches was/were at the East Kent at one time, I can't seen a lot of relevance to a thread on the O1 class !!?! 😎 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeps Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 On 16/11/2023 at 11:39, Wickham Green too said: .... but at 20 examples arguably less in need of model representation than an A12 0-4-2 ( 90 locos ) or 0395 0-6-0 ( 70 locos ) - both of which had significantly longer service lives. I tend to agree, and both the A12 and 0395 are on my list of desirables. Again I must apologise for drifting off thread but the ‘Hush Hush’ and P2 have attracted favourable business for Hornby - even allowing for QC issues - and these classes were substantially fewer in number. The T3 may not have the powerful presence of the LNER beasts but it surely trumps them for elegance. The courage of manufacturers to produce pre-grouping locomotives is reassuring, even if they only choose examples that lasted into BR days. Hopefully we can continue to support this trend by investing in these projects, inspiring them to consider others. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 On 11/11/2023 at 19:05, rapidoTom said: ... We found one of s1065 in "BRITISH RAILWAYS" Southern-style lettering from 1948, and have included that in our livery list. All the running no./livery combinations we're making have photos of them in the depicted condition. As has been mentioned, 1065 carried the 's' prefix from February 1948 ( to June 1952 ) - do you have dates for the other photos ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidoTom Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 3 hours ago, Wickham Green too said: As has been mentioned, 1065 carried the 's' prefix from February 1948 ( to June 1952 ) - do you have dates for the other photos ? For some photos but not others - it very much depends on the archive and/or photographer how in-depth their record-keeping is. We used photos from lots of different sources, some are just the photo, some have notes including locations and dates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 Can you spill the beans on 1046 in particular ? .... I've not got anything in Bulleid's 1939-41 livery variant ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidoandy Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 We chose 1046 as it was hired to the Longmoor Military Railway for a while (1940 to 1944). During this time it retained its SR number and livery. We have a photo of it (undated) at Bordon in this livery. Sadly I can't remember where the photo was published! Cheers Andy 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WD1995 Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 On 22/11/2023 at 15:37, rapidoandy said: We chose 1046 as it was hired to the Longmoor Military Railway for a while (1940 to 1944). During this time it retained its SR number and livery. We have a photo of it (undated) at Bordon in this livery. Sadly I can't remember where the photo was published! Cheers Andy The photo is in Longmoor Military Railway volume 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 On 10/11/2023 at 12:01, AY Mod said: SECR O1 0-6-0 (OO Gauge) Rapido Trains UK finally reveals its number (O)1 open secret with the SECR 0-6-0 Class O1. At Rapido Trains UK we often talk about projects being a passion, or right up our street, however, few projects are as close to home as the O1. With three of our team being handsome Men of Kent and another two from the part of the County that can't decide they if are a Kentish Man or Man of Kent (there is a difference), it’s fair to say we are rather enthusiastic about our local locos. Starting life before the SECR even existed, and designed by James Stirling, the O Class was conceived as an all-purpose freight locomotive to work across the entire South Eastern Railway. Between 1878 and 1899 122 O Class locos were built. Following the first group of 20 that were built by Sharp, Stewart and Co., several more batches were completed, both by them and by the South Eastern Railways' own Ashford Works. The final five locos were built in 1899 under the South Eastern and Chatham Railway name, as the SER and LCDR had put aside their differences and sensibly merged into a single entity. Outperforming its predecessors, the O lived up to its expectations, but with the amalgamation of the two railways, new skills and resources became available. As such, 59 of these locos were rebuilt, given larger boilers, and reclassified as the Class O1. Working alongside similar-sized locomotives, it became apparent that locos such as the new C class could outperform the Class O1 and O locos on freight duties. Though they remained spread across the county for many years, they were relegated to more modest branchline, shunting or light duties. Many of the class survived both global conflicts, the ‘Big 4’ era and soldiered on until the last days of British mainline steam, working branch lines such as the Kent and East Sussex Railway and East Kent Railway. With the sun setting on the O1s' future, BR Class member No. 31065 earned one final claim to fame by leading the ‘Farewell to Steam’ railtour on the Hawkhurst Branch. The last of the class was sadly withdrawn from service in 1962. Thankfully No. 31065 would live on. Esmond Lewis-Evans spotted it on a visit to Ashford, where it was being used to train apprentices. He saved it from the scrap heap, and it spent several years at the Ashford Steam Centre. When the museum failed to pay its rent, No.65 was dismantled and secretly dispersed in its component pieces across the Southeast, this determined display of preservation cunningly prevented British Rail from claiming it for repossession. It wasn’t until 1996 that its parts were moved to the Bluebell Railway, where it was rebuilt for the centenary year of the SECR. You can still see it today! With its gorgeous fully lined livery, open cab, exposed tender springs, and highly polished brass dome and fittings, No. 65 remains one of the most elegant freight locomotives to survive into preservation. Our model has been designed using a combination of archival materials and drawings, and an onsite survey of No.65 to ensure its accuracy. We would like to thank The Bluebell Railway who accommodated our comprehensive survey, and the Spa Valley Railway who gave us access to record accurate sounds of No.65 during its short visit to them earlier this year. Our model will be available in a variety of liveries covering the loco's history. Modellers can look forward to a smooth-running mechanism, a factory-installed speaker, a sleek tender connection and a firebox glow perfect for lighting up all that detailing. The model is currently ready for tooling and we hope to have samples in the spring. RRP for this exciting new model is £199.95 for DCC Ready and £309.95 for DCC Sound Fitted. Pre-order yours today direct from Rapido Trains UK HERE or from any Official Retailer. 966001 No.65 SECR Wainright green (as preserved) Tapered buffers Standard bufferbeams Steam heating pipes (in detail bag) Tender toolbox Smokebox lubricators Tender water gauge Can motor and flywheel Next18 decoder socket in tender Plunger loco pickups Tender wheel bearing pickups Firebox glow Twin speakers in tender NEM pockets front and rear Cosmetic scale coupling Route indicator discs in detail bag 966002 No.373 SECR Wainwright green Tapered buffers Fully riveted smokebox Standard bufferbeams Smokebox lubricators Can motor and flywheel Next18 decoder socket in tender Plunger loco pickups Tender wheel bearing pickups Firebox glow Twin speakers in tender NEM pockets front and rear Cosmetic scale coupling Route indicator discs in detail bag 966003 No.385 SECR grey Tapered buffers Fully riveted smokebox Standard bufferbeams Tender toolbox Smokebox lubricators Can motor and flywheel Next18 decoder socket in tender Plunger loco pickups Tender wheel bearing pickups Firebox glow Twin speakers in tender NEM pockets front and rear Cosmetic scale coupling Route indicator discs in detail bag 966004 No.A7 Southern lined black (Egyptian lettering) Tapered buffers Fully riveted smokebox Standard bufferbeams Steam heating pipes (in detail bag) Tender toolbox Can motor and flywheel Next18 decoder socket in tender Plunger loco pickups Tender wheel bearing pickups Firebox glow Twin speakers in tender NEM pockets front and rear Cosmetic scale coupling Route indicator discs in detail bag 966005 No.1437 Southern plain black (Egyptian lettering) Tapered buffers Fully riveted smokebox Riveted bufferbeams Steam heating pipes (in detail bag) Can motor and flywheel Next18 decoder socket in tender Plunger loco pickups Tender wheel bearing pickups Firebox glow Twin speakers in tender NEM pockets front and rear Cosmetic scale coupling Route indicator discs in detail bag 966006 No.1046 Southern plain black (Bulleid lettering) Tapered buffers Fully riveted smokebox Standard bufferbeams Can motor and flywheel Next18 decoder socket in tender Plunger loco pickups Tender wheel bearing pickups Firebox glow Twin speakers in tender NEM pockets front and rear Cosmetic scale coupling Route indicator discs in detail bag 966007 No.1379 Southern plain black (‘sunshine’ lettering) Tapered buffers Fully riveted smokebox Standard bufferbeams Tender water gauge Can motor and flywheel Next18 decoder socket in tender Plunger loco pickups Tender wheel bearing pickups Firebox glow Twin speakers in tender NEM pockets front and rear Cosmetic scale coupling Route indicator discs in detail bag 966008 No.100 East Kent Railway black Tapered buffers Fully riveted smokebox Tender toolbox Can motor and flywheel Next18 decoder socket in tender Plunger loco pickups Tender wheel bearing pickups Firebox glow Twin speakers in tender NEM pockets front and rear Cosmetic scale coupling Route indicator discs in detail bag 966009 No.S1065 BR plain black (‘sunshine’ lettering) Tapered buffers Riveted bufferbeams Steam heating pipes (in detail bag) Tender water gauge Can motor and flywheel Next18 decoder socket in tender Plunger loco pickups Tender wheel bearing pickups Firebox glow Twin speakers in tender NEM pockets front and rear Cosmetic scale coupling Route indicator discs in detail bag 966010 No.31064 BR black (early crest) Tapered buffers Fully riveted smokebox Riveted bufferbeams Steam heating pipes (in detail bag) Tender water gauge Can motor and flywheel Next18 decoder socket in tender Plunger loco pickups Tender wheel bearing pickups Firebox glow Twin speakers in tender NEM pockets front and rear Cosmetic scale coupling Route indicator discs in detail bag 966011 No.31065 BR black (late crest) Stepped buffers Standard bufferbeams Steam heating pipes (in detail bag) Tender toolbox Tender water gauge Can motor and flywheel Next18 decoder socket in tender Plunger loco pickups Tender wheel bearing pickups Firebox glow Twin speakers in tender NEM pockets front and rear Cosmetic scale coupling Route indicator discs in detail bag A superb development. All we need now is an F1. I realise that will not happen, because one was not preserved, but it would leave the SE&CR as the one pre-Grouping company for which all loco types are catered for RTR, one more than usually blessed with RTR wagons and the only one with accurate RTR coaches. Rapido is rapidly taking the place as the lead OO RTR manufacturer and certainly the pre-Grpouping modeller has much to be grateful for and must accord Rapido first place in the rankings. I look at where my hard-earned goes these days. Some goes to retail commisssioners and to Dapol and Heljan, but increasingly, and most recently, it is Accurascale and, especially Rapido that are impoverishing me! Bachmann, aside from commission work, and Hornby. are fading into history. Pre-Gropuping wagons, GER C53 and coach, NER H Class, Manning Wardle L, and now this O1! 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 24 minutes ago, Edwardian said: ... SE&CR as the one pre-Grouping company for which all loco types are catered for RTR, ... Not sure what you mean by that ? .... there are plenty of other classes not yet available RTR - including plenty of 4-4-0 classes ! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said: Not sure what you mean by that ? .... there are plenty of other classes not yet available RTR - including plenty of 4-4-0 classes ! What I mean is that the F1 would complete a reasonable roster for the SE&CR, not that every class in service would be available. I cannot think of another pre-Grouping company where there would be locos available for most types of services. For the Wainwright era there is a D for express passenger work, a C and soon an O1 for goods, the H for suburban/short distance passeger trains and the P for motor train working or shunting. Add the F1 and you have all the passenger workings between a D and an H. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 ... while an A, B, B1, F, G, M, M1, M2 or M3 would fit those parameters equally well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted November 27, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 27, 2023 4 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said: ... while an A, B, B1, F, G, M, M1, M2 or M3 would fit those parameters equally well. Now if you set about to model the SER, F, O, Q, and R would pretty well do you with the exception of the boat trains. If modelling a wayside station out in the country, Fs and Os would be all you need. James Stirling had things very well sorted out. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 7 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said: ... while an A, B, B1, F, G, M, M1, M2 or M3 would fit those parameters equally well. Yes, yes, but the F1 is the obvious counter part to the O1. You have the Wainwright classes and both the modified common Stirling classes that way. We could all list every class that the SE&CR operated, but I think that rather misses the point. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted November 27, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 27, 2023 13 minutes ago, Edwardian said: Yes, yes, but the F1 is the obvious counter part to the O1. You have the Wainwright classes and both the modified common Stirling classes that way. We could all list every class that the SE&CR operated, but I think that rather misses the point. Classes F/F1, O/O1, Q/Q1, and R/R1 were numerically the largest SE&CR classes of their respective wheel arrangements: F/F1, 88; runner up D, 51. O/O1, 122; runner up C, 109. Q/Q1, 118; runner up H, 66. R/R1, 25; runner up ex-LCD T, 10. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 48 minutes ago, Edwardian said: ... I think that rather misses the point. I'm still not really sure what the point IS ! - why stop at the D, for instance, when the D1, E, E1, and L were handling the top expresses prior to grouping ? ( only one of which has - recently =- appeared RTR ) ...... though I note that some of these are irrelevant "For the Wainwright era" which you bring into the conversation later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 (edited) I no longer care Edited November 27, 2023 by Edwardian Spelling! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted November 27, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 27, 2023 3 minutes ago, Edwardian said: I no longer care Who wants express passenger engines anyway? Totally unsuitable for the sorts of layouts most of us have room for. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted November 27, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 27, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: Who wants express passenger engines anyway? Totally unsuitable for the sorts of layouts most of us have room for. I'm building a roundy-roundy, with the main line going through the middle of the fiddle-yard. I can use an express passenger loco or two. Edited November 27, 2023 by Budgie 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted November 27, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 27, 2023 1 minute ago, Budgie said: I'm building a roundy-roundy, with the main line going through the middle of the fiddle-yard. I can use an express passenger loco or two. I was just being gently provocative. But really, they're the icing on the cake, not the bread-and-butter engines that one needs for a realistic model. Of course that assumes folks want their models to be realistic. I fully appreciate there are many (not you, @Budgie) who couldn't give tuppence for authenticity. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Fair Oak Junction Posted November 28, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2023 This is why I enjoy shed layouts. You can get away with basically every type of loco, from biggest express engine to humblest tank engine, and do it in a small space 👌 Not as operationally pleasing, but very visually pleasing! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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