Heljan LNER 2-8-0+0-8-2T U1 Garratt

[2750Papyrus]

1 hour ago, phil gollin said:

.

 

I need help with how this model, "Rule 1" and the Southern Region can work together !

 

I'm glad this is being produced  -  I wish Heljan all the best.

 

.

The number of layouts on which it could be used prototypically, if any,  must be limited, so we will all need to use rule1!  Even then , I would have the same problem as the LNER with the P1, my loops will not take trains long enough to utilise the available power.  The LMS version only just sits in my display cabinet, so if I do give in to temptation it will have to run on the layout. 

 

I wonder how the sound file (two three cylindered engines exhausting through a single chimney) will be constructed?

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, Obsidian Quarry said:

Well that should prove to be a popular one, good choice Heljan!

 

Not for me, unless I need something for the KR Bertha to rescue 😂

Silly question, but wouldn't it have been better to run chimney first on a 1:38, to try and help keep the firebox crown covered?

[RichardT]

20 minutes ago, 61661 said:

As soon as it's possible, I'm going to talk to our Andy at Rapido and get the U1 and Y7 together for a photo shoot. ;-) 

Ah yes - “Dignity and Impudence”!  There’s a classic diorama for someone.

 

Everything you say is true, of course @61661.

 

RT

[Fair Oak Junction]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Silly question, but wouldn't it have been better to run chimney first on a 1:38, to try and help keep the firebox crown covered?

 

You would think so wouldn't you. I assume whoever was responsible at the time must have known what they were doing?

Maybe.... 😄

[Bucoops]

21 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

 

It will probably end up rescuing the KR Bertha...

 

Or just shove it out the way? 🙃

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, phil gollin said:

.

 

I need help with how this model, "Rule 1" and the Southern Region can work together !

 

I'm glad this is being produced  -  I wish Heljan all the best.

 

.

Will it run on 2nd radius curves?

And more to the point, will it clear the engine release crossover on a typical Great Western branch terminus?

Does it need two sound chips, one for each end?

 

I can't justify one, but I' ll have to have this - or maybe I should just finish the kit I've got, I never got round to assembling all that valve gear.

[steve1]

Having seen the prices, there could be glut of s/h grannies, children, limbs and kidneys on the market soon…

 

steve

[jamieb]

I look forward to a plethora of layouts based on the Lickey Incline,with the U1,Big Bertha,4 x 94xx tanks in tandem and several Jinties! 

All joking aside,it would make a good exhibition layout on which to watch the trains go by 

[E100]

I will certainly wait from the side lines on this one but with a lot of interest and if one dips below £300... In many ways I trust Heljan more than KR (who I suspect may have had this on a list) to get this one right and I hope they can take learning from the LMS BG.

[E100]

21 minutes ago, jamieb said:

I look forward to a plethora of layouts based on the Lickey Incline,with the U1,Big Bertha,4 x 94xx tanks in tandem and several Jinties! 

All joking aside,it would make a good exhibition layout on which to watch the trains go by 

 

There was an excellent one based on Shap at York so i can't see why not.

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, 61661 said:

Understand your situation. As someone who joined Heljan after those models were designed/released, I'm also determined to avoid similar issues and we have made great strides to do so in recent years. In that regard we are being helped by the fact that we now use different factories as one of our previous suppliers ceased production. The first running sample of the U1 is expected in January, so we'll see how it performs in the real world and it will not go into production until it does everything we ask of it to the required standard. I have a 1-in-25 gradient on my layout so I'm very much looking forward to seeing it tackle that with a big train. 

What I can promise is that the LNER U1 will be a VERY different animal to its LMS cousin, which was designed to Hattons' specification and price point. Also worth noting that the problems that arose with the first batch of LMS B-Gs were addressed for the second batch, which did not have any issues. 

With regard to loco choices, we listen to what people are asking for and make our own judgements on what is likely to sell enough to justify the investment. Over the last 15 years or so we've done numerous one-offs and obscure prototypes and generally they've been successful. We get numerous requests for prototype and other locos, but I can honestly say that I've never had a single request at a show or online for a Fowler 3MT, Maunsell U or similar 'missing links'. I'll leave it to RMwebbers to discuss why that might be. 

 

Well I've been banging on about Fowler and Stanier 2-6-2Ts online for years!

 

Maybe I've never asked Heljan directly for one as it just doesn't seem to be their thing. Bachmann very much their territory as they do the BR version, maybe Hornby. I certainly asked Simon Kohler about them in the flesh a few years back. Probably given up now and will try and get the Judith Edge etches.

 

But to me Heljan is diesels, railbuses and big heavy freight engines. I think the only small steam locomotives they've made was the GWR dock tanks and narrow gauge. If a manufacturer makes a few similar things then they do seem to get a reputation for only making those things, look at how many comments you see that Hornby only make LNER Pacifics!

 

Back to the Garratt, now that is one I feel is Heljan territory. Waiting for the GN cabbed O2s first though. A year and a half or so to decide....

 

 

 

Jason

[61661]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Will it run on 2nd radius curves?

And more to the point, will it clear the engine release crossover on a typical Great Western branch terminus?

Does it need two sound chips, one for each end?

 

I can't justify one, but I' ll have to have this - or maybe I should just finish the kit I've got, I never got round to assembling all that valve gear.

Yes. It’s designed for R2 curves. The speakers will be under the boiler as the noise comes out of the chimney. 
And it depends on how long your release road is. ;-) 

[Grasslands]

I'm looking forward to this one. I was quietly hoping someone would get to making an RTR one eventually. I also have a rather lengthy OO garden railway nearing its final construction stage to haul it over, so happy days!

[AlfaZagato]

My experience with Heljan has been 50/50, so I'll gamble on a preorder.  I have a reputation in the Chicagoland area to uphold, anyways.   'As-built' would be correct for ~1933, correct?

 

On the LMS B-G, I picked mine up by pure chance from a local show some 10 years ago.   Been running fine since, so I don't know the issues usually lamented with the model.  If Heljan has moved away from the very angry factory that did the 1366, this model should be fine.

[Hal Nail]

1 hour ago, BachelorBoy said:

the Southern did actually consider buying a Garratt. 

Well it is petty steep up to Medstead!

[New Haven Neil]

2 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Silly question, but wouldn't it have been better to run chimney first on a 1:38, to try and help keep the firebox crown covered?

 

They ran it that way to make buffering up a little easier.

[Ian Hargrave]

Both the O2 and the 47XX are excellent,very powerful models….well at least mine are anyway….and their grunt will outpull most other machines.So given this BG (I think ) was designed for banking duties and spent its working life assisting heavy goods trains from the rear,I ponder just how it will operate in 4mm model guise ( DC only ) behind such a train with,say,a Hornby 8F or Bachmann O4 at the front. I imagine that could be interesting .I wonder too if its arrival will stimulate the construction of split level layouts .

 

   Top marks to Ben for engaging with us straight away ,dispelling concerns that we may have.

 

[61661]

2 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

I have vague memories that the Southern did actually consider buying a Garratt. 

IIRC Maunsell wanted to build some for the West of England route. 

[craneman]

3 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Silly question, but wouldn't it have been better to run chimney first on a 1:38, to try and help keep the firebox crown covered?

I believe that whilst on the Lickey it was run cab-first to make buffering up marginally less hazardous.

 

What is also not clear form the photo of the U1 with Big Emma is that (as I recall) the train engine on that particular day was a Midland Garratt, so the total power on the train was spectacular as well as inadequate.

[Fair Oak Junction]

3 minutes ago, craneman said:

What is also not clear form the photo of the U1 with Big Emma is that (as I recall) the train engine on that particular day was a Midland Garratt, so the total power on the train was spectacular as well as inadequate.

 

It was indeed. LMS Garratt on the front, U1 on the rear. Train stalled. Bertha came, gave them a shove and got them to the top.

The noise was apparently heard quite far away 😄

Edited November 17, 2023 by Obsidian Quarry

[JSpencer]

3 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Ohh - don't!!

 

Unless you want one with a different wheel arrangment at each end, plus a rear unit with half a bunker and half an oil tank!

 

CJI

 

Don't be silly. I am sure that they would make both ends exactly the same....

[zed]

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Well I've been banging on about Fowler and Stanier 2-6-2Ts online for years!

 

Maybe I've never asked Heljan directly for one as it just doesn't seem to be their thing. Bachmann very much their territory as they do the BR version, maybe Hornby. I certainly asked Simon Kohler about them in the flesh a few years back. Probably given up now and will try and get the Judith Edge etches.

 

But to me Heljan is diesels, railbuses and big heavy freight engines. I think the only small steam locomotives they've made was the GWR dock tanks and narrow gauge. If a manufacturer makes a few similar things then they do seem to get a reputation for only making those things, look at how many comments you see that Hornby only make LNER Pacifics!

 

Back to the Garratt, now that is one I feel is Heljan territory. Waiting for the GN cabbed O2s first though. A year and a half or so to decide....

 

 

 

Jason

Thank you for keeping on that wagon, I too would love both Fowler and Stanier 2-6-2T models but living on the left side of the pond and never getting to a show makes it difficult to ask manufacturers.

 

[craneman]

11 minutes ago, Obsidian Quarry said:

 

It was indeed. LMS Garratt on the front, U1 on the rear. Train stalled. Bertha came, gave them a shove and got them to the top.

The noise was apparently heard quite far away 😄

And I wish - how I wish - that I had been there on that day!

[Iltman]

3 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

I have vague memories that the Southern did actually consider buying a Garratt. 

 

3 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

I have vague memories that the Southern did actually consider buying a Garratt. 

Yes that’s true, in the mid thirties the idea was to build a set of 4-6-2 2-6-4 Garretts for the Basingstoke Exeter line.  It went as far as getting a quote from Beyers and the board authorising the purchase.  It petered out due IMHO to Maunsells health issues but for Southern modellers it gives an excuse to run the U1 ‘on trials’ at least that’s my excuse 

[No Decorum]

I think I have posted this before a long time ago. It’s a bit of a “ricer”, so I think I might well go for a RTR version. To others who are contemplating one, it’s a monster! There have been some jibes about KR. I’ll just quietly add that this job will have all wheels flanged.