OO gauge Austerity 2-10-0

[Steamport Southport]

16 hours ago, adb968008 said:

25 years ago I was a have a go hero with my djh kit…

 

Tender driven from a Flying Scotsman tender drive chassis, Hornby 9f front end, and a wagon wheel for a pony.

 

its been great for many years but its been sitting in my works gathering dust for a few years now, I had acquired a set of Bachmann WD Wheelsets, to commence an upgrade, but I guess thats on hold.

 

I have a proper Bachmann tender now spare, so I may still go the Greek route on this to join my 3 overseas 8f’s… I have a TCDD Hornby and two Africa 8f’s in WD, complete with cow catchers, pumps and bullet proofed cab roof plates.

 

Why not dispense with the tender drive and put a proper motor/gearbox in the loco? It would then pull a house down like the real ones!

 

Gibson do WD wheels.

 

 

Jason

[E100]

2026 Q1 delivery according to the latest Newsletter.

[Daveinnorfolk]

On 26/01/2024 at 16:06, E100 said:

2026 Q1 delivery according to the latest Newsletter.

If it ever actually arrives. With the competition a year earlier, and little detail actually announced, I still expect this to quietly get forgotten.

[Fair Oak Junction]

I'm inclined to agree. When I noticed the expected date of 2026 I was genuinely taken aback. Assuming ECT get theirs out in time, which we have little reason to doubt at this stage, it's going to be very hard for KR to compete apart from on price. By 2026, I would imagine most people who want a WD 2-10-0 will have one. Only time will tell I guess.

[E100]

3 hours ago, Daveinnorfolk said:

If it ever actually arrives. With the competition a year earlier, and little detail actually announced, I still expect this to quietly get forgotten.

 

Yes, I'm not sure there is enough room for more than 1 in the market and ECT seem too far along to stop although so claim KR models.

[The Stationmaster]

Simple matter of numbers and timescale I think.  firstly there will be a finite market for these, even if they are dressed up in various liveries teh ereal ones are carrying or have cariried.  This wil also be influenced by price as no doubt some of the 'maybe' buyers won't fancy the price from either company.

 

The next thing is who has got to where with their model?  ECT have shown a variety of 3-D prints which indicates they have some fairy advanced CAD work ready - minor adjustments apart they are at the threshold of starting tooling, the real money step in the game.  That, on the face of it, puts them around a year ahead of KR - who have yet to show anything beyond a video including one real engine in the class while their initial announcement seemed to indicate they weren't aware of the existence of any other surviving engines or indeed where & when they had worked in Britain.  This in turn implied that their research was not even complete or that they only intended to make a model of one of the preserved examples.

 

So KR are some way behind - probably around a year maybe a little less, maybe a little more.  And looking at what is likely to be not only a market limited in size but also one where they will arrive later than the competition.   This might also disrupt what appears to be their normal business model where they use advance payments to cover work on development etc.  Yhis wont matter too much if they are using a factory which back-end loads payments but they will need the money at some stage before their model can see the light of day and production samples are available.

 

They could of course put in additional effort in the hope of catching up with ECT )or even getting ahead of them but taht will be a mah jor uphill slog.  if they can do that they will grab a possibly larger share of the market - but it won't make that market much bigger.

[Keegs]

On 30/01/2024 at 10:05, E100 said:

 

Yes, I'm not sure there is enough room for more than 1 in the market and ECT seem too far along to stop although so claim KR models.

Agree 100%, KR would be better off changing to the 2-8-0(I think they share some parts?) which would be a huge improvement over the Bachmann version (no tender pickups, no proper bearings etc) especially if they go with the diecast boiler as originally intended!

[cctransuk]

1 minute ago, Keegs said:

Agree 100%, KR would be better off changing to the 2-8-0(I think they share some parts?) which would be a huge improvement over the Bachmann version (no tender pickups, no proper bearings etc) especially if they go with the diecast boiler as originally intended!

 

Sorry - but IMHO there is no need for a new WD 2-8-0.

 

I judge my locos on performance, not on features (which may, or may not, be necessary).

 

My WD runs superbly - once I had found the random short, generated by a trapped wire.

 

It seems that, nowadays, models are judged on whether they have the latest innovations - be it cast bodies or whatever.

 

If a model looks like the prototype, performs like the prototype - what more do you want?

 

Ahh - sorry; a model with little inherent mass, so that a multitude of electrickery can be crammed in to give chuffing and smoke - hence the 'necessity' for a cast metal body.

 

I know - grumpy old man!

 

CJI.

[Keegs]

19 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Sorry - but IMHO there is no need for a new WD 2-8-0.

 

I judge my locos on performance, not on features (which may, or may not, be necessary).

 

My WD runs superbly - once I had found the random short, generated by a trapped wire.

 

It seems that, nowadays, models are judged on whether they have the latest innovations - be it cast bodies or whatever.

 

If a model looks like the prototype, performs like the prototype - what more do you want?

 

Ahh - sorry; a model with little inherent mass, so that a multitude of electrickery can be crammed in to give chuffing and smoke - hence the 'necessity' for a cast metal body.

 

I know - grumpy old man!

 

CJI.

 

Sorry I didn't mean to offend you and I'm not saying the old one doesn't run well, I was merely offering up the idea that instead of having two newly tooled WD 2-10-0 models from different manufacturers one of them could be changed to the 2-8-0 (which would some of the parts are interchangeable with.)

 

Regarding the Bachmann model I was merely comparing it to newer releases and the specifications that KR models were looking to apply to their 2-10-0.

 

-Fair enough about pickups I suppose it has 8 driving wheels, but no excuse for no bearings except cutting corners.

 

-Other nitpicks would be the moulded smokebox dart.

 

-Cast bodies have been around since Hornby Dublo, not really a "Latest Innovation" and quite alot of locos would benefit from it although the Bachmann cast running board means their WD 2-8-0 is heavy enough.

 

The 2-10-0 only had 150 examples built vs 935 of the 2-8-0 so it's assumed there would be alot more livery variations they could cover than what is currently available and they were redistributed all over England whereas it appears the majority of 2-10-0 were shipped to the Netherlands after the war. (Correct me if I'm wrong)

 

I note that the Bachmann model doesn't cover this particular livery:

 

 

Of course if KR wanted to shelve the entire design and do a completely different locomotive then that is an entirely different kettle of fish!

[cctransuk]

6 minutes ago, Keegs said:

 

Sorry I didn't mean to offend you and I'm not saying the old one doesn't run well, I was merely offering up the idea that instead of having two newly tooled WD 2-10-0 models from different manufacturers one of them could be changed to the 2-8-0 (which would some of the parts are interchangeable with.)

 

Regarding the Bachmann model I was merely comparing it to newer releases and the specifications that KR models were looking to apply to their 2-10-0.

 

-Fair enough about pickups I suppose it has 8 driving wheels, but no excuse for no bearings except cutting corners.

 

-Other nitpicks would be the moulded smokebox dart.

 

-Cast bodies have been around since Hornby Dublo, not really a "Latest Innovation" and quite alot of locos would benefit from it although the Bachmann cast running board means their WD 2-8-0 is heavy enough.

 

The 2-10-0 only had 150 examples built vs 935 of the 2-8-0 so it's assumed there would be alot more livery variations they could cover than what is currently available and they were redistributed all over England whereas it appears the majority of 2-10-0 were shipped to the Netherlands after the war. (Correct me if I'm wrong)

 

I note that the Bachmann model doesn't cover this particular livery:

 

 

Of course if KR wanted to shelve the entire design and do a completely different locomotive then that is an entirely different kettle of fish!

 

BR WD liveries - black - with one of two crests. WD - not so sure - but a niche market. In other words - much the same as the 2-10-0.

 

Cast bodies - abandoned in the 1960s in favour of then-superior injection moulded plastic; now re-invented to compensate for the adhesion lost to endless electronic gubbins to make models chuff and smoke.

 

CJI.

 

 

[No Decorum]

14 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Sorry - but IMHO there is no need for a new WD 2-8-0.

 

I judge my locos on performance, not on features (which may, or may not, be necessary).

 

My WD runs superbly - once I had found the random short, generated by a trapped wire.

 

It seems that, nowadays, models are judged on whether they have the latest innovations - be it cast bodies or whatever.

 

If a model looks like the prototype, performs like the prototype - what more do you want?

 

Ahh - sorry; a model with little inherent mass, so that a multitude of electrickery can be crammed in to give chuffing and smoke - hence the 'necessity' for a cast metal body.

 

I know - grumpy old man!

 

CJI.

I must agree that there is no need for another WD 2-8-0; the Bachmann models are excellent. I know you’re a die-hard DC man and there is nothing whatever wrong with that but I will say that Bachmann’s latest offering with sound is superb. An excellent sound and control project in an excellent model.

 

From another grumpy old man who is sometimes charmed out of grumpiness by the manufacturers.

[Keegs]

Ok let’s look at it from another angle which is the angle I was actually meaning in my initial reply to The Stationmaster. Which is not so much comparing the Bachmann 2-8-0 to a hypothetical “new” 2-8-0. But rather having releases of 2x 2-10-0s of which there would be a limited market(we’ve seen this recently with the Manor, Large Prairie, Lion, Class 37 to name a few) vs allowing KR models to salvage some of their hard work and create a slightly improved if you will 2-8-0 instead.

Think of it not as “the Bachmann model is seriously out of date” more like a “would you rather see duplicate of a rather niche (IMO) locomotive or an “updated” 2-8-0 of which the prototype was seen all over England and in decent numbers and would likely sell well.🤷‍♂️

[cctransuk]

4 hours ago, Keegs said:

Ok let’s look at it from another angle which is the angle I was actually meaning in my initial reply to The Stationmaster. Which is not so much comparing the Bachmann 2-8-0 to a hypothetical “new” 2-8-0. But rather having releases of 2x 2-10-0s of which there would be a limited market(we’ve seen this recently with the Manor, Large Prairie, Lion, Class 37 to name a few) vs allowing KR models to salvage some of their hard work and create a slightly improved if you will 2-8-0 instead.

Think of it not as “the Bachmann model is seriously out of date” more like a “would you rather see duplicate of a rather niche (IMO) locomotive or an “updated” 2-8-0 of which the prototype was seen all over England and in decent numbers and would likely sell well.🤷‍♂️

 

I can't see either option being a good seller for KRM.

 

CJI.

[adb968008]

Did anyone notice anything relating to the 2-10-0 at Ally Pally ?

 

ive got to admit I didnt look.

[gwrrob]

On 25/03/2024 at 09:47, adb968008 said:

Did anyone notice anything relating to the 2-10-0 at Ally Pally ?

 

 

 

Prices and versions now online.

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/collections/kr-models?q=2-10-0

[The Stationmaster]

On 25/03/2024 at 03:53, Keegs said:

Ok let’s look at it from another angle which is the angle I was actually meaning in my initial reply to The Stationmaster. Which is not so much comparing the Bachmann 2-8-0 to a hypothetical “new” 2-8-0. But rather having releases of 2x 2-10-0s of which there would be a limited market(we’ve seen this recently with the Manor, Large Prairie, Lion, Class 37 to name a few) vs allowing KR models to salvage some of their hard work and create a slightly improved if you will 2-8-0 instead.

Think of it not as “the Bachmann model is seriously out of date” more like a “would you rather see duplicate of a rather niche (IMO) locomotive or an “updated” 2-8-0 of which the prototype was seen all over England and in decent numbers and would likely sell well.🤷‍♂️

I agree with CCTransUk - I seriously wonder if a market even exists for a WD 2-8-0 from KR when compared with the existing Bachmann version.

 

And `judging by their announcement video at that stage they didn't seem to have done much work at all - 'hard' or otherwise - on the project having somehow completely missed the simple fact that BR actually had a small fleet of them on their books for around a quarter of a century.  By the time they 'announced' (via that video) ECT wereshowing 3-D prints which indicated they were already well advanced on their development of the models even down to certain individual detail diifferences.

[Michael Hodgson]

On 25/03/2024 at 08:48, cctransuk said:

 

I can't see either option being a good seller for KRM.

 

CJI.

I'm going with their competitor.

[Keegs]

Fair enough I guess, I’m just a bit annoyed with all the unnecessary duplication when there are other models that get seemingly forgotten about because there were more than 1 prototype ever built (which seems to be the current trend!) if we take GWR (only because that is what I model/am familiar with) there are no Saints, Duke’s, Bulldog’s or Aberdare’s and well overdue a retool (imo): 0-4-2 tank(has someone announced one of these maybe?), Star (no proper bearings), 2251 (old tooling)

 

I guess I’ll just keep waiting! 😆 

Edited April 20 by Keegs

[Michael Hodgson]

On 20/04/2024 at 11:18, Keegs said:

Fair enough I guess, I’m just a bit annoyed with all the unnecessary duplication when there are other models that get seemingly forgotten about because there were more than 1 prototype ever built (which seems to be the current trend!) if we take GWR (only because that is what I model/am familiar with) there are no Saints, Duke’s, Bulldog’s or Aberdare’s and well overdue a retool (imo): 0-4-2 tank(has someone announced one of these maybe?), Star (no proper bearings), 2251 (old tooling)

 

I guess I’ll just keep waiting! 😆 

It's inevitable that companies will duplicate their choice of new product. given that there is a lead time between their getting their project to the point that they have costings etc and can decide to start production and their announcement of it.

 

And if they they all got together and agreed who would produce what, inflated prices could also be fixed so the monpoloies fuzz would rightly drop on them like a ton of bricks.

[The Stationmaster]

On 23/04/2024 at 10:26, Michael Hodgson said:

It's inevitable that companies will duplicate their choice of new product. given that there is a lead time between their getting their project to the point that they have costings etc and can decide to start production and their announcement of it.

 

And if they they all got together and agreed who would produce what, inflated prices could also be fixed so the monpoloies fuzz would rightly drop on them like a ton of bricks.

Quite agree.  But I reckon it's daft duplicating something when you haven't spent any big money on the project and even your initial research isn't complete but the opposition are obviously (to me at any rate) way ahead.  Far better to dump what little time and money you have spent and go find something else otherwise you're just turning it into a w*lly waving exercise.

[Michael Hodgson]

1 minute ago, The Stationmaster said:

Far better to dump what little time and money you have spent and go find something else otherwise you're just turning it into a w*lly waving exercise.

 

Cutting your losses is always a difficult decision.

Unfortunately many "entrepreneurs" seem to prefer your alternative