OO gauge Austerity 2-10-0

[Mallard60022]

1 hour ago, Fair Oak Junction said:

Hah, my dyslexia and general inability to spell at work there. Didn't even realise 😄

It's OK we all 'Fell' for it matey.

Keep up the good humour.

Phil

[Mallard60022]

I'm desperately trying to think of how the Longmoor Loco made it to Exmouth Junction in the early 60s!

Ummmm!

P

[Helmdon]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

I'm desperately trying to think of how the Longmoor Loco made it to Exmouth Junction in the early 60s!

Ummmm!

P

LCGB Railtour. When in doubt, always an LCGB railtour. 

Edited December 2, 2023 by Helmdon

[No Decorum]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I beg to differ about the BR Standards being well represented.

 

Poor model of the 8P. 

5MT 4-6-0 is getting long in the tooth.

No Caprotti 5MT - before comments about them being niche there were 30 of them with one preserved

No 3MT 2-6-0

No 2MT 2-6-2T

Crosti 9F is another poor model

No rebuilt Crosti

 

That's quite a lot of engines. 233 if my maths are correct.

 

 

Jason

I’m not so sure that the Crosti is all that poor. I think its weakest point is the pony truck with footsteps attached to it instead of to the body. However, present-day standards have left it behind a bit but let’s pray that Hornby doesn’t do an update with lights!

[Steamport Southport]

18 minutes ago, Helmdon said:

LCGB Railtour. When in doubt, always an LCGB railtour. 

 

Engines on the LMR did leave Longmoor quite often when going to other military bases.

 

Woking 1966

 

https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/600-gordon-wd-73651/

 

601 Kitchener at Carlisle 1958

 

 

 

Jason

Edited December 2, 2023 by Steamport Southport

[davefrk]

601 Kitchener was an oddball though, two westy pumps fitted around this time and the tender had BR Standard style tender springs without the compensating levers as can just be discerned, other photos taken in 1958 whilst at NBL loco works for overhaul and modification show the modified tender springs clearly. I'm told the loco then ran trials on BR Scottish region for a few months and an old friend claimed he saw the 'big blue engine' running through Motherwell (?) with an iron ore train.

[The Stationmaster]

On 30/11/2023 at 18:16, MidlandRed said:

 Aha 😆 first to spot the typo 😁

Makes a change!!!

[adb968008]

On 02/12/2023 at 12:08, Steamport Southport said:

 

I beg to differ about the BR Standards being well represented.

 

Poor model of the 8P. 

5MT 4-6-0 is getting long in the tooth.

No Caprotti 5MT - before comments about them being niche there were 30 of them with one preserved

No 3MT 2-6-0

No 2MT 2-6-2T

Crosti 9F is another poor model

No rebuilt Crosti

 

That's quite a lot of engines. 233 if my maths are correct.

 

 

Jason

Agreed with all of that. Even the Britannia is getting on a few years.

its not as if BR standards werent popular or not well travelled either… even the two that missed it are being lazarused back to into being.

 

A lot of BR Standards preserved, and preserved numbers tend to be popular.
 

Rebuilt Crosti, i thought this was being done or have I imagined it ?

Edited December 4, 2023 by adb968008

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On 01/12/2023 at 11:31, Neil said:

Because it's always a good idea to keep an open mind...

Amen to that. This alone regarding duplication: We don't yet know what either business planning to offer this subject will achieve. Beyond MR I have been around long enough to have seen vast enthusiasm for Brand A with their terrific past rep. collapse in confusion, and Brand zz come through with a highly competitive item that wins the day big time!

 

On 02/12/2023 at 12:08, Steamport Southport said:

...5MT 4-6-0 is getting long in the tooth. No Caprotti 5MT...

Of all the current BR standard models, this is the weakest by far. Back on Ur-RMweb it got a heavy duty going over:

means to improve the mechanism performance; 

how to fix the original BR1F tender shape (Bach subsequently sorted this);

how to fix the BR1C tender's top of leading edge of the side sheet;

and are we going to adjust the cab shape?

 

I would hope that the fact it was a numerous and widely deployed class with the Caprotti option 'vacant', will tempt a competitor to have a go. 

[jjb1970]

On 05/12/2023 at 20:13, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Amen to that. This alone regarding duplication: We don't yet know what either business planning to offer this subject will achieve. Beyond MR I have been around long enough to have seen vast enthusiasm for Brand A with their terrific past rep. collapse in confusion, and Brand zz come through with a highly competitive item that wins the day big time!

 

 

Absolutely.

 

This announcement kicked off with the usual hopelessly inept communication which still seems to be a hallmark of KR. To say it again, a business doesn't have to communicate beyond website announcements and such like, personally I really don't care if model companies ignore forums like this, social media, YouTube etc as long as they have a decent website, but if they do then do it well. Do it well or don't do it as bad communication as practiced by KR makes a company look hopeless.

 

However, the models should be judged on their merit as models. The Fell was anything but impressive, the 4DD now looks OK (not perfect but I am feeling pretty positive about it) and the Leader is looking pretty promising. If they hadn't over promised working valve gear then I think the little Bellerophon would be very well recieved as it looks to be a lovely little model. If this 2-10-0 is well done then I won't criticise it just because I find KR communication to be woeful.

[cctransuk]

32 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

 

Absolutely.

 

This announcement kicked off with the usual hopelessly inept communication which still seems to be a hallmark of KR. To say it again, a business doesn't have to communicate beyond website announcements and such like, personally I really don't care if model companies ignore forums like this, social media, YouTube etc as long as they have a decent website, but if they do then do it well. Do it well or don't do it as bad communication as practiced by KR makes a company look hopeless.

 

However, the models should be judged on their merit as models. The Fell was anything but impressive, the 4DD now looks OK (not perfect but I am feeling pretty positive about it) and the Leader is looking pretty promising. If they hadn't over promised working valve gear then I think the little Bellerophon would be very well recieved as it looks to be a lovely little model. If this 2-10-0 is well done then I won't criticise it just because I find KR communication to be woeful.

 

Quite - I think that KR's lack of professionalism is best summed up in the laughable situation whereby development of the WD 2-10-0 had progressed as far as a high profile launch at Warley, without the company principals realising that the prototype had run under BR!

 

As a consequence, the most common livery was overlooked, and had to be added as an afterthought when the omission was pointed out, here.

 

It really is difficult to take such goings-on seriously!

 

CJI.

[The Stationmaster]

I think the first step towards accuracy in any model is to research, ideally as deeply as possible, the real world subject that it is based on .  The first stage of that research must surely be to establish the marketability, and by implication the viability, of the chosen subject?   And even a look for photos online includes photos of the WE 2-10-0 in BR service carrying BR numbers.

 

I can understand that someone might initially start from a position of ignorance about a particular subject  that they might ultimately intend to offer to the consumer.  Indeed will sometimes going to be inevitabley when more unusual, or rare, or further back in history, subjects are chosen.  But that only increases the need for proper research from the outset and at least getting hold of the basics.   After all if a chap based in China (possibly with UK based help?) can come up with a pretty impressive looking version of a GCR 9N/LNER A5 tank engine it should hardly be difficult for someone based in England to get the details right?

 

Even if your aim is simply too produce a model of, say, WD/LMR 600 'Gordon' surely it is also necessary to research the class which it belonged as part of a broader search for detail information?   Regrettably for KR 's reputation theor initial launch video  showed up shortcomings (to be polite) in their research.  Hopefully for them they will be able to turnround their approach to the project but they are clearly up against stiff competition and - on the bases of what we have seen - they are trailing some way behind the competition (who judging by one minor detail example have definitely done their research properly).

 

 

[AY Mod]

25 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

if a chap based in China (possibly with UK based help?) can come up with a pretty impressive looking version of a GCR 9N/LNER A5 tank engine

 

It's true; one party with solid research background and market awareness working with another party (who is now in the UK too) who has much experience of working with designers, suppliers and factories in China.

[Mallard60022]

On 02/12/2023 at 13:38, Helmdon said:

LCGB Railtour. When in doubt, always an LCGB railtour. 

I knew it was that...just testing (Not!)

What a lovely idea! Thank you!

As are:

Footy, Hockey and Rugby specials;

Pigeons;

Horses;

Farms;

Circuses;

Troops;

Engineers Dept Engines en route (Eastleigh Meldon);

actual Engineers' Inspections;

'special loads';

other Societies;

works outings;

test Trains;

Blue Peter needing a 'blow up' on Honiton Bank;

diversions;

etc.

I do have several excuses for actual weird workings based on Anniversaries (100th of the LSWR), promotions (Westward TV for example);

Engines off to strange places (2 Beattie tanks going from Wadebridge to Wimbledon [?]);

WR 1361 going from Laira to Weymouth!  

Such fun and not Rule 1.

Phil

 

[MarkC]

On 04/12/2023 at 20:22, adb968008 said:

Agreed with all of that. Even the Britannia is getting on a few years.

its not as if BR standards werent popular or not well travelled either… even the two that missed it are being lazarused back to into being.

 

A lot of BR Standards preserved, and preserved numbers tend to be popular.
 

Rebuilt Crosti, i thought this was being done or have I imagined it ?

Not quite - there's still one missing - the 77xxx. I know that years ago there were thoughts of building one, then there was the idea to use the chassis of 76077 for one - but she's now being restored in her own right.

 

77014 - the one that got away, even though she had a claim to be preserved, as the loco that worked the last steam hauled revenue-earning train on the SR, a Bournemouth-Weymouth parcels, on the evening of 9th July 1967.

 

Mark

Edited December 6, 2023 by MarkC
Added important detail...

[pH]

2 hours ago, MarkC said:

Not quite - there's still one missing - the 77xxx. I know that years ago there were thoughts of building one, then there was the idea to use the chassis of 76077 for one - but she's now being restored in her own right.

 

77014 - the one that got away, even though she had a claim to be preserved, as the loco that worked the last steam hauled revenue-earning train, a Bournemouth-Weymouth parcels, on the evening of 9th July 1967.

 

Mark

“On the SR” missing there?

[MarkC]

10 minutes ago, pH said:

“On the SR” missing there?

You are quite correct, sir - for some reason my fingers didn't connect with the brain... will amend the post

 

Mark

[jjb1970]

The Chinese factories are extremely good at doing the technical design using information provided to them and manufacturing products but they're not experts on the prototype. They will manufacture whatever the customer orders but it's for the customer to make sure that what is made is accurate.  Which as the Stationmaster highlights is critical,  no matter how good the factory is the old truism of design still applies, rubbish  in = rubbish out. The factory they're using seems pretty good, ignoring issues of accuracy the models seem nicely made and finished to a good standard. If KR provide the right research material and supervise that side of things I am sure the factory is fully capable of making an excellent austerity. That however needs KR to do their bit well. Or pay someone who can, a niche identified by Dave Jones which could have been lucrative for him if his delivery had matched his promises.

[Legend]

1 hour ago, JSpencer said:

 

KR do at least deliver something that will run on a layout. DJM was like taking a taxi to go shopping, to then only get loads of taxi talk while never leaving the front gate of the house!

I think this is a valid point . 
 

KR do deliver the goods 

 

The GT3 won prizes , as others have pointed out the Leader and 4DD look good , and I’ll remind you they are at reasonable prices .  I understand being critical but I think sometimes people can get carried away . From time to time you have to stand back and take stock . Could I bring these models to market (has anyone else !) . Does it look like the prototype . To me , even the Fell succeeded here , but I concede I don’t know one side from the other or what would have been right or wrong . 

 

KR do shoot themselves in the foot in communications . The introduction of the WD 2-10-0 was a disaster . More questions than answers , which is not where you should be after a launch . However I am keeping an eye both on the 40 and the 2-10-0  to see what develops .  And if KR were to bring out a Glasgow Blue Train (303) I’d sign up like a shot . 
 

Cut them some slack, and yes I know I’ve joined in jokes about one side being different from another. They may only have not got it 100% right in some cases but it’s still a lot better than I could do ! 

Edited December 7, 2023 by Legend

[Phil Parker]

I've carried out a quick clean-up. This is the KR thread - please can we avoid the DJM rabbit hole, it never ends well.

 

Thanks

[davefrk]

WD 2-8-0 & 2-10-0s in BR service were fitted with sliding glass windows to the cab and can be evidenced by the line of five bolts just under the cab window, most of the 2-8-0s had them in BR days from the early fifties judging by the photos of the period.

 

The position of the line of bolts for the runners varied depending on which works fitted the sliding windows.

The glazing is yet to be fitted on the model.

Cheers,

Dave F.

[No Decorum]

One of the worst features of KR Models so far are the lights. Neither on GT3 nor the Fell do they seem to understand how the lights were supposed to work. The WD won’t have any, so that’s one pitfall likely to be avoided. GT3 is a good runner. It seems that the KR will have a conventional motor whereas the rival will have a coreless, which in my view is a plus. Naturally, I’ll have to wait to see how both models turn out. 

[The Stationmaster]

On 07/12/2023 at 11:37, Legend said:

I think this is a valid point . 
 

KR do deliver the goods 

 

The GT3 won prizes , as others have pointed out the Leader and 4DD look good , and I’ll remind you they are at reasonable prices .  I understand being critical but I think sometimes people can get carried away . From time to time you have to stand back and take stock . Could I bring these models to market (has anyone else !) . Does it look like the prototype . To me , even the Fell succeeded here , but I concede I don’t know one side from the other or what would have been right or wrong . 

 

KR do shoot themselves in the foot in communications . The introduction of the WD 2-10-0 was a disaster . More questions than answers , which is not where you should be after a launch . However I am keeping an eye both on the 40 and the 2-10-0  to see what develops .  And if KR were to bring out a Glasgow Blue Train (303) I’d sign up like a shot . 
 

Cut them some slack, and yes I know I’ve joined in jokes about one side being different from another. They may only have not got it 100% right in some cases but it’s still a lot better than I could do ! 

As one who wen through the whole \quality thing ay work back in the late 1980s one thing which stood out time and time again was that it not n only costs no more to do the job properly and get it right first time but doing that also saves money.   Irrespective of who is carrying the cost tooling every part of a model as correctly and accurately as technology permits the first time you do it is cheaper than having to go back and alter something.

 

In the overall process of developing a model research is generally a low cost item comapred with everything which follows.  Specification is an area where attention to detail and time (=money) spent here is also relatively cheap but critical.   Checking CADs costs time and money but is still relatively low cost in the overall scheme of development.  But cutting the tooling is big money and if the tooling has to be revised it can turn out to be much more money depending on which parts are on what tools.   

 

So spending a little more time and money before metal cutting starts can save thousands of £s. Back to the good old 'quality' mantra of 'get it right first time'

[Bucoops]

Something the company I used to work for never learned. They preferred to send someone round the world with piles of parts and get them to finish building a machine in the client's factory to ensure they made delivery deadlines, then wondered why the clients got the hump with having a half built machine turn up and so went to a competitor.

 

The same company that would start a new machine's serial number at 10 so clients didn't know they had the pre-production version. The same company that would change the serial number on a returned machine and sell it as new.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

As one who went through the whole quality thing at work back in the late 1980s one thing which stood out time and time again was that it not only costs no more to do the job properly and get it right first time but doing that also saves money.

Where there is established technique for the entire process this is true. And one more thing: use proven best practise rather than reinventing the wheel or reverting to a superseded practise. One of my abiding frustrations with RTR is abandonment of superior practise for inferior. Topping my list lack of springing on driven axles, dumping simple loco to tender drawbars for superfluous camming mechanisms which neither work successfully, nor are actually necessary.