Kernow Models D6xx Update

[7013]

I have it on good authority that although it is (I believe) still coreless the motor in the D6XX has been uprated from the one originally spec'd by DJM. Similarly the gearing is not as was specified by DJM for their Class 71 and I think you will find, as already reported in this thread, that it runs well with a decent turn of speed.

 

I look forward to receiving my pair - which will be as I really remember them - without those obnoxious headcode boxes.

Edited July 7, 2018 by 7013

[7013]

Thanks Stationmaster,I too have ordered the originals w/o headcode boxes. .

[7013]

Are there any sound project on the horizon for these locos? been looking around, cant see anything yet.

['CHARD]

Are there any sound project on the horizon for these locos? been looking around, cant see anything yet.

 

I wonder what on earth they sounded like - plausibly much the same as a Class 43.... or not!? 

[woodenhead]

Much the same as a Class 22 I would imagine except it had two engines

[The Stationmaster]

I wonder what on earth they sounded like - plausibly much the same as a Class 43.... or not!? 

 

It's rather difficult to remember sound back over 60 years - until you hear an attempt at it and can then say it sounds right or wrong.  They definitely shared some characteristics withe the NBL Type2s but as with all the hydraulic classes the key to the sound is the mix of engine and transmission types which could create some very distinctive 'class specific' noises and replaying them with the right level of bass or whatever.  Then comes the equally thorny problem of reducing that to a 4mm scale sound package which still seems to be unattainable in so many models - while model diesel sounds are generally far better than steam I still have to hear what I would consider a realistic 350 shunter (Class 08) sound from any supplier.

[woodenhead]

I've yet to hear any diesel sound package that sounds like the real thing, even listening to recordings of real trains from the 80s/90s on Youtube sounds dull and flat compared to the real thing, nothing I have heard sounds like a 45 or a 47 leaving Manchester Victoria to begin the ascent up Miles Platting bank.

 

Steam seems less problematic as long as you have a live recordings to work from as the whole tempo was based on a circular motion of the wheels and had a regularity that does not exist with a diesel where the generator is detached from the actual wheel movement.  Of course there are more complexities that wheel motion with a steam loco but I think there is less to deal with than a diesel.

['CHARD]

It's rather difficult to remember sound back over 60 years - until you hear an attempt at it and can then say it sounds right or wrong.  They definitely shared some characteristics withe the NBL Type2s but as with all the hydraulic classes the key to the sound is the mix of engine and transmission types which could create some very distinctive 'class specific' noises and replaying them with the right level of bass or whatever.  Then comes the equally thorny problem of reducing that to a 4mm scale sound package which still seems to be unattainable in so many models - while model diesel sounds are generally far better than steam I still have to hear what I would consider a realistic 350 shunter (Class 08) sound from any supplier.

 

 

I've yet to hear any diesel sound package that sounds like the real thing, even listening to recordings of real trains from the 80s/90s on Youtube sounds dull and flat compared to the real thing, nothing I have heard sounds like a 45 or a 47 leaving Manchester Victoria to begin the ascent up Miles Platting bank.

 

Steam seems less problematic as long as you have a live recordings to work from as the whole tempo was based on a circular motion of the wheels and had a regularity that does not exist with a diesel where the generator is detached from the actual wheel movement.  Of course there are more complexities that wheel motion with a steam loco but I think there is less to deal with than a diesel.

 

Which is one of the principal reasons that I attend so few shows and own no sound-fitted equipment.  I can't suspend disbelief where this sensory attribute is concerned, so play emotive pop songs of the era on decent quality kit* instead.

 

* - in due course through a pub jukebox 

[Clive Mortimore]

Much the same as a Class 22 I would imagine except it had two engines

No....just like a class 22 as they normally only had one engine working, because the other one was broken. :nono: :nono:

 

 

Which is one of the principal reasons that I attend so few shows and own no sound-fitted equipment.  I can't suspend disbelief where this sensory attribute is concerned, so play emotive pop songs of the era on decent quality kit* instead.

 

* - in due course through a pub jukebox 

I like to listen to music while driving model trains.    

 

Being quite tone deaf a class 40 sounds like a diesel loco but that is as far as I can tell so sound is wasted on my ears.

[woodenhead]

No....just like a class 22 as they normally only had one engine working, because the other one was broken. :nono: :nono:

 

 

I like to listen to music while driving model trains.  

 

Being quite tone deaf a class 40 sounds like a diesel loco but that is as far as I can tell so sound is wasted on my ears.

Forties are easy, purse your lips and do a little whilstle, works for 20s too if you can get that bit higher in pitch - a quick squeeze in the nether regions helps.

[Gwiwer]

As with Stationmaster's comments above it is difficult to recall precisely let alone describe to others the sound these locos produced.  I have been hauled by them all.  I have spent time around them while they spent time around Penzance and Ponsandane.  They sounded different to the 800s and 1000s (unsurprisingly) though were perhaps closer in sound to the Voith transmission 800s (now known as class 43) than what we commonly call class 42 now.  Definitely hydraulic in tone I recall that they emitted some sort of faint rattling note perhaps from the transmission which the other types did not.  But I doubt I could convince the likes of Legomanbiffo of how they should sound for DCC purposes.  Mine will remain DC and feature only the sounds they make running at slow speed on the layout for now.  Until I one day have space for a main line layout once again.

[TrevorP1]

..... so play emotive pop songs of the era on decent quality kit* instead.

 

* - in due course through a pub jukebox

I find that’s an excellent way of getting into the atmosphere of the era. If they could be found, recordings of radio news programmes might be another way. I remember reading an article in an American magazine where it was suggested that period calendars and the like might be displayed in the railway room. Framed ‘period’ news items might also be an idea.

[St Enodoc]

No....just like a class 22 as they normally only had one engine working, because the other one was broken. :nono: :nono:

 

 

I like to listen to music while driving model trains.  

 

Being quite tone deaf a class 40 sounds like a diesel loco but that is as far as I can tell so sound is wasted on my ears.

Now I know why you like punk so much.

[jjb1970]

Which is one of the principal reasons that I attend so few shows and own no sound-fitted equipment.  I can't suspend disbelief where this sensory attribute is concerned, so play emotive pop songs of the era on decent quality kit* instead.

 

* - in due course through a pub jukebox 

I must admit I've never been convinced by sound effects in models. One reason is that sound doesn't scale and most sound levels are set far, far too high creating an incongruence between what we see and what we hear. The absence of Doppler effect doesn't help. But beyond that I just don't find the sound at all convincing even if ignoring the scaling issue.

[Wickham Green]

Of course there are more complexities that wheel motion with a steam loco but I think there is less to deal with than a diesel.

Far more ........... unless steam sound is properly synchronised with wheel rotation - at four, six or even eight beats to the bar - it's totally unconvincing ..... what's more there's a world of difference between the sound of a light engine starting off and a loco moving a heavy train up a gradient ....... or coasting to a halt : on far too many exhibition train sets you'll hear a continuous chuffing noise until the chuffing loco stops - WRONG !

[No Decorum]

Far more ........... unless steam sound is properly synchronised with wheel rotation - at four, six or even eight beats to the bar - it's totally unconvincing ..... what's more there's a world of difference between the sound of a light engine starting off and a loco moving a heavy train up a gradient ....... or coasting to a halt : on far too many exhibition train sets you'll hear a continuous chuffing noise until the chuffing loco stops - WRONG !

 

In addition to this, diesels notch up and notch down, which Hornby’s TTS system emulates. The engine (prime mover) increases and decreases speed in steps. Hornby’s TTS system does the same for steamers*. Steamers don’t work that way. Linking up softens the sound but the exhaust beats match the turning of the wheels. The sounds of Increasing and decreasing speed are continuous – they do not step up and down.

 

* I haven’t bought a TTS steamer recently. Perhaps (unlikely) Hornby has tackled the problem?

[7013]

Trying to remember 60 years ago is difficult, plus the D600 class were not around long, and even when around spent a lot of time being repaired. Funnily enough I remember the C22 sound quite clearly as it was very noisy and sounded like a bag of spanners. The D800 warship was more refined altogether. 

[New Haven Neil]

The Sutton Class 24 is a fine example of what can be achieved in diesel sound - it does sound exactly right.  As an ex-merch engineer I LISTEN to diesel engines very closely, they talk to me, and that one is spot on.  You can't tell anything from You tube, the sound equipment used to record and interweb compression destroy any semblance of decent reproduction.

 

Biffo's 45 is pretty good too, when well set up, it does sound like....a 45.  But it's nowhere near the 24, but is maybe the best of the rest. TTS is useless, you get what you pay for.

[St Enodoc]

The Sutton Class 24 is a fine example of what can be achieved in diesel sound - it does sound exactly right.  As an ex-merch engineer I LISTEN to diesel engines very closely, they talk to me, and that one is spot on.  You can't tell anything from You tube, the sound equipment used to record and interweb compression destroy any semblance of decent reproduction.

 

Biffo's 45 is pretty good too, when well set up, it does sound like....a 45.  But it's nowhere near the 24, but is maybe the best of the rest. TTS is useless, you get what you pay for.

They used to talk to me too. Usually it was something like "Ha ha there's something wrong with me and you've no idea what it is".

[Clive Mortimore]

Trying to remember 60 years ago is difficult, plus the D600 class were not around long, and even when around spent a lot of time being repaired. Funnily enough I remember the C22 sound quite clearly as it was very noisy and sounded like a bag of spanners. The D800 warship was more refined altogether. 

Hi

 

Would a D600 sound like two bags of spanners?

[jimwal]

For the depot layout owners the North British loco sound chips should contain an 'under repair' function given the unreliability of this manufacturer's locos.

 

Clive can just play some suitable punk!

[bluebard]

Just about to order one of these. Can someone help me choose. I need to know:

a) when each got the later louvres

b) when each got their head code boxes

c) when each got their small yellow panels.

 

Many thanks in anticipation

[Phil Bullock]

Just about to order one of these. Can someone help me choose. I need to know:

a) when each got the later louvres

b) when each got their head code boxes

c) when each got their small yellow panels.

 

Many thanks in anticipation

 

This would be a good starting point to help you

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Book-Warships-John-Jennison/dp/1906919119/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1532760300&sr=8-1&keywords=the+book+of+the+warships

 

Phil

[adb968008]

It’s a pity they aren’t doing the blue HYE version, unless it’s coming as a surprise under the radar, who knows when/if we’d see it done.

[stovepipe]

Just about to order one of these. Can someone help me choose. I need to know:

a) when each got the later louvres

b) when each got their head code boxes

c) when each got their small yellow panels.

 

Many thanks in anticipation

 

I have the book of the Warships and it lists some of those dates - but not all.

 

Broadly

a) completed between Nov 1960 and Jan 1961

b) D602 in Dec 1964, D603 Oct 65 D601 Jan 66 D604 Nov 66 D600 May 67

c) Between Feb 62 and Apr 62, D600 May 62, D601 Aug 62.