Landslip at Hatfield & Stainforth

[Mallard60022]

Hatfield has only been reopened for a couple of years; so more job losses on the horizon  in a horribly deprived district.

Looks like the Donny, Finningly, Misterton, Beckingham, Lincoln route is going to be the freight route south (and north?). Yesterday we were pondering the routing of the Container traffic up/down this route and how boring 36E will then become if this freight move comes about (and how annoyed the Lincoln shoppers will become until another footbridge is installed at the north crossing at Central).

As mentioned earlier, Beckingham Level Crossing is quite a good place to spend a few hours at the moment  if you are interested and able to have that time 'out'. Little shop in the village, inexpensive pub food (carvery/veg options every day, all day) just before the Trent Bridge at Gainsborough (about 5 minutes drive). One or two historic bits of railway interest around the crossing, good walks, plenty of birdies (feathered kind) and some good phot shot locations locally if you study your OS/Google maps and are willing to walk around a bit.

Although yesterday's jaunt was most enjoyable I have to say how boring the loco scene is now; oh look, it's a 66 (yawn).

Quack.

[eastwestdivide]

One more thing from yesterday - it's worth noting that some of the diverted freight went the longer way round via Market Rasen and Lincoln to get between S Humberside and Doncaster, rather than via Brigg. So if you go to Gainsborough Central/Kirton Lindsey for photos, take a good book with you.

[SwissRailPassion]

One more thing from yesterday - it's worth noting that some of the diverted freight went the longer way round via Market Rasen and Lincoln to get between S Humberside and Doncaster, rather than via Brigg. So if you go to Gainsborough Central/Kirton Lindsey for photos, take a good book with you.

 

Here are times for Kirton

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced?location=Kirton+lindsey&date=19%2F2%2F2013&tocs=All&timespan=3&show_schedules=11&schedule_type=0&show_wtt=1&show_var=1&show_stp=1

 

Bit of a lull mid-afternoon

Edited February 19, 2013 by SwissRailPassion

[eastwestdivide]

Here are times for Kirton

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced?location=Kirton+lindsey&date=19%2F2%2F2013&tocs=All&timespan=3&show_schedules=11&schedule_type=0&show_wtt=1&show_var=1&show_stp=1

 

Bit of a lull mid-afternoon

... and some running 60+ minutes out of course, as well as an ECS working for TP Doncaster-Sheffield-Brigg-Cleethorpes (and return), which looks like a stock swapover?

[scorpion]

train of spoil wagons with DRS 20 on one end and 37 on other at the Doncaster end of the Hatfield line this morning. it'll take more than one trip to clear that lot

[The Stationmaster]

Having looked at this tip I wouldn't want to drive a motor scraper across there in the next five years never mind next week. A small dozer with LGP tracks maybe but I wouldn't want to push a full blade even downhill. It looks more like a slurry lagoon on top  of the tip so a quicksand effect is quite feasible.......

 

Hatfield colliery is under threat of closure or maybe mothballing because of difficult conditions undergrounda massive bill will probaly seal its fate.

 

 

Edit Low Ground Pressure = LGP tracks  sometimes wider plates than normal or long pads that look like split trees.

It has been wondered if a lagoon has been deliberately created on the top of the tip in order to recover fine coal (it's good stuff for power stations apparently) and it would be interesting to know if that is indeed the case?

[skipepsi]

Fine coal just saves them beating it to bits in the mill.

[Etched Pixels]

It has been wondered if a lagoon has been deliberately created on the top of the tip in order to recover fine coal (it's good stuff for power stations apparently) and it would be interesting to know if that is indeed the case?

 

Yes powerstations love the stuff - it's been a blessing (and in some cases a curse) because quite a few problematic spoil heaps went away - they used to dump the fine coals so it was actually cost positive to clean the tip up. It's been a curse in a few cases because junk land that would have been quite handy for building on has suddenely become rather valuable.

[JeffP]

This has quickly slipped off page 1, so does anyone have any more news?

[eastwestdivide]

Network Rail added a few aerial photos during the week

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/Gallery/6719/Stainforth-Hatfield-Colliery-landslip-14-2-13

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/Gallery/6725/Ariel-photos-16-2-13

(site not responding at the moment),

but I've not seen any new developments or statements elsewhere.

 

I might get some time for another "roving reporter" site visit in a few days with a bit of luck.

[James]

I heard an estimate of a year to fully repair the damage - apparently the heap is still moving.

[JeffP]

That's gone out a long way from eight weeks, then?

 

I can see this being a never, never situation, yet. They could redouble the Brigg line, take Hull traffic via Selby and leave Scunthorpe cut off from the west. Quite easily.

 

It would mean they could sell the bridge at Keadby to the local council/government and stop it's upkeep, and do away with the swing bridge at Keadby canal too. All cost savings.....

 

A new chord at Barnetby/Wrawby junction would probably cost less than the landslip, plus it might be extended onto the Lincoln line too.........

[scorpion]

that'll be popular in Thorne

[ForestPines]

Would approval be forthcoming for a railway-railway flat crossing at Wrawby to put a chord in to the Lincoln line? The topography would be a pain for putting in an Ely-style loop, because the Wolds narrow in either side of the line quickly east of the junction.

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi All

 

Has anyone else looked on the Old Maps site http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html there was a water source going by the delightful name of P i 5 5 y  Beds Drain from the mine to the water tanks by the bridge. If you overlay the 1983 1 in 2500 map on the aerial image of the tip pre slide from Google maps, then look at the photos showing the crack at the top of the tip. To me the position of the old drain and were the slide has happened are very close. I am neither a geologist nor a mining engineer so I cannot draw any conclusion to my findings but it may be food for thought as to why the rail services have been so disrupted.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Clive Mortimore

[eastwestdivide]

Bit of context for the civil engineers: aerial shot off google, Hatfield/Stainforth station bottom left, and the M18 and Thorne Junction top right.

 

red splodge: the problem landslip, coming from the N side of the line

black arrow: a new-ish tip of some kind, already quite high (the owners must be a bit worried)

black line: room for potential realignment missing the problem areas

 

 

Which I reckon is an option if (that's a big if) they can't fix the original alignment. It's a bit curvy, but to my eye looks feasible.

Also much less disruptive overall than any ideas of chords at Barnetby.

Just realised my black line obliterates the pumping station at the corner of Hugh Hill Lane, but there's wiggle room.

Edited February 25, 2013 by eastwestdivide

[4630]

Which I reckon is an option if (that's a big if) they can't fix the original alignment. It's a bit curvy, but to my eye looks feasible.

Also much less disruptive overall than any ideas of chords at Barnetby.

Just realised my black line obliterates the pumping station at the corner of Hugh Hill Lane, but there's wiggle room.

 

Do you think the owners of the land over which your realignment passes would be willing to sell?  

 

Who would pay for the cost of the land acquisition and all the associated legal and planning consent?

 

Not a quick or inexpensive option methinks.

[eastwestdivide]

Do you think the owners of the land over which your realignment passes would be willing to sell?  

 

Who would pay for the cost of the land acquisition and all the associated legal and planning consent?

 

Not a quick or inexpensive option methinks.

Yes, all fair points, and they also apply to the idea of chords at Barnetby. None of them are insurmountable in either case. It isn't really high-value land.

I was really putting it forward as a counter-proposal to the Barnetby idea.

I still think once it stops moving, you can remove the spoil, and the original alignment will be rebuilt. Assuming the problem is only from the spoil heaps, and not some underlying problem that the heap has revealed.

 

And like you say, none of the options are quick or cheap. 

[4630]

As I understand the current position the spoil is still moving, albeit more slowly, and the engineers can't make an assessment or begin to formulate plans to correct the situation until it does.

 

 

The longer the spoil tip remains unstable the more likely it becomes that other viable alternatives have to be looked at.

 

The worse thing that can happen is that the whole issue subsequently becomes bogged down in legal action between Network Rail, the owners of Hatfield colliery, their associated insurers and any other parties affected. 

 

[Edwin_m]

Google has just found me a pic of the Prestonpans diversion mentioned above:

 

Here's an aerial view of the result.  About 1km of new alignment is needed to move the track laterally by only 100m or so (and the curves are continous so this wouldn't have reduced if the problem area had been the same width but shorter).  This is probably a 125mph alignment and tighter curves for 75mph or so would most likely be acceptable at Hatfield, but it still gives some idea of the amount of work that would be needed.  A non-starter in my view (though curves at Barnetby are even less likely).

Edited February 25, 2013 by Edwin_m

[meil]

 

As I understand the current position the spoil is still moving, albeit more slowly, and the engineers can't make an assessment or begin to formulate plans to correct the situation until it does.

 

 

 

 

Then they will be waiting a long time because unless they start lowering the water table within the slip it ain't going to stop any time soon.

[Glorious NSE]

That's gone out a long way from eight weeks, then?

 

No, 8 weeks from the slip becoming stabilised.

[Mallard60022]

Being 'bogged down' (apt words 4630) is what's wrong with the whole of this area.

P

[skipepsi]

A dewatering system would I think involve a deep coffer dam complete with 6 inch pumps and a lot of pipes to an outlet point lower than the tip water table which may be several miles away I am not sure how high above sea level Hatfield is maybe 20 to 25 ft? How far down is the water table that is causing/helping the slip?

[Kris]

 

Which I reckon is an option if (that's a big if) they can't fix the original alignment. It's a bit curvy, but to my eye looks feasible.

Also much less disruptive overall than any ideas of chords at Barnetby.

Just realised my black line obliterates the pumping station at the corner of Hugh Hill Lane, but there's wiggle room.

That looks a little too wiggly to my eyes. I suspect that to make that idea work you would need to go under the motorway which would be very expensive.