Landslip at Hatfield & Stainforth

[figworthy]

Bit of context for the civil engineers: aerial shot off google, Hatfield/Stainforth station bottom left, and the M18 and Thorne Junction top right.

 

red splodge: the problem landslip, coming from the N side of the line

black arrow: a new-ish tip of some kind, already quite high (the owners must be a bit worried)

black line: room for potential realignment missing the problem areas

 

The "newish" tip is not new at all.  30 years ago it was the council tip, not sure what the ownership of it is these days.  It used to have several large machines crawling over it compacting the rubbish, so I suspect that it is quite firm.

 

 

Adrian

[Guest 838rapid]

I recall rubbish being tipped there and the large machines accodingly crushing it over the last 10 years,it always looked such a odd place to land tip as it stuck out against the natural flow of the land around..

[Coombe Barton]

So what's happening to the methane? Have they just covered the rubbish with wet mine waste? After the incident in Derbyshire with a clay capped waste tip leaking methane and blowing up a bungalow there must be some venting, if it's now covered by something else.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Coombe Barton

[Guest 838rapid]

As I recall there were concrete type vent pipes sticking out of it..

[Coombe Barton]

As I recall there were concrete type vent pipes sticking out of it..

 

That's the usual way, certainly. Have they been moved by the slip, I wonder?

[Guest 838rapid]

Ah I am on about the tip on the opposite side of the track to the coliery...

 

Think we might be at cross purposes.

[APOLLO]

They could float a new line over the sloppy wet stuff. Float it on a bed of reeds. George Stephenson did this on the Liverpool - Manchester line at Chat Moss not far off 200 years ago - the line is still there, floating on the moss.

 

The diversion shown above by eastwestdivide seems the best idea. Farm land has in the past been sold for the tips. The existing slipping tip is best abandoned and left to its own devices.

 

Brit15

[Coombe Barton]

Ah I am on about the tip on the opposite side of the track to the coliery...

 

Think we might be at cross purposes.

 

Yes, I thought you meant the moving tip. But wonder what the water will be doing to the landfill tip?

[Guest 838rapid]

Thats true,mind you they have used a concrete raft further down the line,where the canal eat away the track bed,so anything is possible.

 

Seems they should abandom the trackbed near the pit as thats a major job to get that settled solid enough to be able to lay track..

 

the only man restiction is to get the track back over to meet the Junction for the line that heads off towards Thorne south/Norths Stns.

[woodenhead]

They could float a new line over the sloppy wet stuff. Float it on a bed of reeds. George Stephenson did this on the Liverpool - Manchester line at Chat Moss not far off 200 years ago - the line is still there, floating on the moss.

 

The difference being floating on a stable moss pit versus a moving mountain of spoil on a nice bed of water.

 

Until it stops moving nothing will happen and even a diversion cannot be considered in case it too gets caught up in the slip.

[big jim]

another uk colliery in trouble

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-21571790

 

if fastline were still going they would be in trouble now, both uk collieries they served shut within a couple of weeks of each other!

Edited February 25, 2013 by big jim

[jonhall]

That's gone out a long way from eight weeks, then?

 

I can see this being a never, never situation, yet. They could redouble the Brigg line, take Hull traffic via Selby and leave Scunthorpe cut off from the west. Quite easily.

 

It would mean they could sell the bridge at Keadby to the local council/government and stop it's upkeep, and do away with the swing bridge at Keadby canal too. All cost savings.....

 

A new chord at Barnetby/Wrawby junction would probably cost less than the landslip, plus it might be extended onto the Lincoln line too.........

 

But that would seem to send a lot of trains south, there is (or was) a plan on the table to modify Joan Croft Junction to allow trains from Immingham to cross the ECML rather than join it, because 'slow' freight trains were eating into the high speed passenger paths on the ECML, diverting that freight South would seem to make the situation worse.

 

http://infrastructure.planningportal.gov.uk/wp-content/ipc/uploads/projects/TR040001/2.%20Post-Submission/Application%20Documents/Other%20Documents/3.8%20-%20Description%20of%20the%20development%20for%20NWR%20(North%20Doncaster%20Chord)%20Order%20Application.pdf

 

Jon

[jamie92208]

But that would seem to send a lot of trains south, there is (or was) a plan on the table to modify Joan Croft Junction to allow trains from Immingham to cross the ECML rather than join it, because 'slow' freight trains were eating into the high speed passenger paths on the ECML, diverting that freight South would seem to make the situation worse.

 

http://infrastructure.planningportal.gov.uk/wp-content/ipc/uploads/projects/TR040001/2.%20Post-Submission/Application%20Documents/Other%20Documents/3.8%20-%20Description%20of%20the%20development%20for%20NWR%20(North%20Doncaster%20Chord)%20Order%20Application.pdf

 

Jon

The Joan Croft/Shaftholme junction project is well underway with a big flyover being built.

 

Jamie

[eastwestdivide]

But that would seem to send a lot of trains south, there is (or was) a plan on the table to modify Joan Croft Junction to allow trains from Immingham to cross the ECML rather than join it, because 'slow' freight trains were eating into the high speed passenger paths on the ECML, diverting that freight South would seem to make the situation worse.

 

http://infrastructure.planningportal.gov.uk/wp-content/ipc/uploads/projects/TR040001/2.%20Post-Submission/Application%20Documents/Other%20Documents/3.8%20-%20Description%20of%20the%20development%20for%20NWR%20(North%20Doncaster%20Chord)%20Order%20Application.pdf

 

Jon

Yes, the Doncaster North Chord, which is all approved and ready to start work. I think they already put in a siding for deliveries of materials by the demolished power station at Thorpe Marsh. Don't know if any other progress has been made yet. Must go and take a look some time.

The Hatfield closure also adds to congestion through Doncaster station itself, and adds more traffic not only to the Doncaster-Joan Croft section of the ECML, but also to the Doncaster-Adwick section, for traffic that previously took the freight-only link from Hatfield/Stainforth to Adwick (over the top of Joan Croft).

Interesting to see the knock-on effects rippling outwards like that.

[meil]

A dewatering system would I think involve a deep coffer dam complete with 6 inch pumps and a lot of pipes to an outlet point lower than the tip water table which may be several miles away I am not sure how high above sea level Hatfield is maybe 20 to 25 ft? How far down is the water table that is causing/helping the slip?

 

It's nothing to do with water tables it's to do with pore water presures in the slip mass.

[Edwin_m]

As I see it they need to sort out this spoil heap one way or the other - they can't just leave it as a spreading blot on the landscape.  Once they have done this there is no further risk to the railway so it can be relaid on the original alignment. 

[Coombe Barton]

What's happening to the new spoil from the mine at the moment?

[skipepsi]

I'm not convinced they are producing coal at present, I think they are trying to find a productive seam and if not it will close for good. 'difficult conditions underground' is how the company put it to the miners.

[Fat Controller]

I'm not convinced they are producing coal at present, I think they are trying to find a productive seam and if not it will close for good. 'difficult conditions underground' is how the company put it to the miners.

They'd still be producing spoil if they were looking for new seams; the difference would be that it would be 100% of the material excavated, rather than the residue left from the coal in the screening process.

[skipepsi]

From watching the local news I am not convinced they are looking that energetically.

[Etched Pixels]

As I see it they need to sort out this spoil heap one way or the other - they can't just leave it as a spreading blot on the landscape.  Once they have done this there is no further risk to the railway so it can be relaid on the original alignment. 

 

It is quite possible that the only thing that can be done is to sit and watch for a year or so. They can't work on a large heap like that while it is unstable - anything could happen.

[ForestPines]

I am not sure how high above sea level Hatfield is maybe 20 to 25 ft?

 

Probably about half that - the OS gives a spot height of 3m on the road that runs along the north side of the tip.

 

Complete pie in the sky idea - with the new flyover above Joan Croft Jn, put in a chord south of Hatfield connecting Applehurst Jn and Kirk Sandall Jn, so that trains from Applehurst Jn can head onto the South Yorkshire Joint Line and get to Immingham via Worksop!

[James]

How about manning the north bank 24hrs and running freight through the to Hull Docks and out via Selby with traffic diverted from Immingham? The Docks Branch is good for 22 trains in and out a day since its upgrade but this capacity is never used.

 

This would take pressure off the south bank while Hatfield is still out of action.

[skipepsi]

The only way I have thought of is the same way china clay and tin mining was done in Malaysia? actually wash it down with high pressure water into settlement ponds away from the problem area, remove the water for reuse and dig the slurry out for redistribution else where.

 

As for the company running the pit what I think will happen is......... (libel until they have done it)

[SwissRailPassion]

How about manning the north bank 24hrs and running freight through the to Hull Docks and out via Selby with traffic diverted from Immingham? The Docks Branch is good for 22 trains in and out a day since its upgrade but this capacity is never used.

 

This would take pressure off the south bank while Hatfield is still out of action.

I think the port does not have the deep water berths as at Immingham.