Alcanman Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Always good to see some local scenes, Dave. Pics of Cramlington look much better without the overhead wires! Mal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Popular Post DaveF Posted June 16, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Popular Post Share Posted June 16, 2015 More electrics today on the WCML at Roade and Norton Bridge. Roade Class 83 up ex pass July 67_J975 Roade Class 310 up pass July 67 J976 Norton Bridge Class 86 down pallet vans May 76_J5234 Norton Bridge 87019 up ex pass May 76_J5237 NortonBridge 86205 down ex pass May 76_J5248 David 33 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium New Haven Neil Posted June 16, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 16, 2015 Don't the electrics in SYP and white cab roofs look nice! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Market65 Posted June 16, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 16, 2015 Hi, Dave. Love the photo's of the WCML at Roade and Norton Bridge. The last one, J5248 of 86205 is possibly an extra or excursion train - all Mk1 stock - a give away, maybe?. Or could it be one the NE-SW inter-regional services? All the best, Market65. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted June 16, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 16, 2015 Re Church Lane level crossing Class 37 up ex pass June 75 C2082 It seems strange to me to see a centre headcode class 37 on GE lines - I always thought the split-headcode variety were completely dominant - because of poor OHL clearance with the roof mounted horns of the later type. But a little googling reveals that the centre headcode locos were only barred through Queens Road and Clapton tunnels on the Cambridge line. This was apparently resolved in 1983 when the track was lowered through the tunnels. Even so, I don't remember seeing any centre headcode locos at Liverpool Street. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold DaveF Posted June 16, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 16, 2015 Re Church Lane level crossing Class 37 up ex pass June 75 C2082 It seems strange to me to see a centre headcode class 37 on GE lines - I always thought the split-headcode variety were completely dominant - because of poor OHL clearance with the roof mounted horns of the later type. But a little googling reveals that the centre headcode locos were only barred through Queens Road and Clapton tunnels on the Cambridge line. This was apparently resolved in 1983 when the track was lowered through the tunnels. Even so, I don't remember seeing any centre headcode locos at Liverpool Street. They were certainly quite uncommon on the GE line to Colchester and beyond. I've had a quick look at my photos and as far as I can see I have only two photos of centre headcode 37s on passenger workings south of Colchester and one on a train of car carriers in the up direction at Shenfield. The only other one is at Harwich, which may well have come from the Ipswich direction. I've not counted the split headcode photos but there are a lot more! David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted June 16, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) Sorry to throw a spanner in the works chaps! The centre headcode batch 6960 - 6968 were 30A locos certainly in the late 60s and there were other centre boxers in the low end of the D68xx series - including D6830 the subject of the Hornby model from the 60s. Brush veteran has one of his usual super pics of a pair at Liverpool Street https://www.flickr.com/photos/59835095@N02/6265587217/in/album-72157627818608793/ The D6960 - D6968 batch can be identified by this time as they all appear to have an additional lamp bracket positioned centrally above the headcode box and IIRC were the first in the class to be air braked. https://www.flickr.com/photos/59835095@N02/6266109972/in/album-72157627818608793/ 6819 for comparison https://www.flickr.com/photos/59835095@N02/sets/72157627818608793 Many thanks to Grahame as usual for making his super photos available Phil Edited June 16, 2015 by Phil Bullock Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted June 16, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 16, 2015 I have had a bit of a dig; in 1974 and 1976 1F25 was 14:40 Parkeston - Harwich 'The Kristiansand Service', running once per week either Weds or Thurs, from mid June to early Sept, and I assume something similar for 1975. You did well to capture it! Based on a Flickr search it seems a few centre headcode locos did make it to Liverpool Street, though very much in the minority. Stratford had a few it seems in this period. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted June 16, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 16, 2015 A fine photo of Liverpool Street, though some time before my visits there. Some of that D6960-8 batch were at Stratford for a very long time, and got dual brakes fairly early on, for freightliner traffic I suppose. I read the Cambridge line tunnel restriction began in 1975, which I presume was related to the system voltage changing around then. My personal memories fit into the period when the restriction was in place from 1975 to 1983, and the centre headcode locos did seem to be extinct at the city end then, at least when I visited. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted June 16, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 16, 2015 (edited) Re Church Lane level crossing Class 37 up ex pass June 75 C2082 It seems strange to me to see a centre headcode class 37 on GE lines - I always thought the split-headcode variety were completely dominant - because of poor OHL clearance with the roof mounted horns of the later type. But a little googling reveals that the centre headcode locos were only barred through Queens Road and Clapton tunnels on the Cambridge line. This was apparently resolved in 1983 when the track was lowered through the tunnels. Even so, I don't remember seeing any centre headcode locos at Liverpool Street. The overall height of a centre headcode Type 3 is the same all the GER and LSTR EMUs with their pantograph locked down, 13 feet 3/4 inch. Under the 13 feet 1 inch maximum height as per the loading guage. The minimum contact wire height under tunnels and bridges is 13 feet 8 inches for 25KVa and 13 feet 5 inches for 6.25KVa. Was the contact wire height of the two tunnels listed below 13 feet 8 inches when the line was converted from 6.25 KVa to 25KVa? Where EMUs being towed with the panotgraph locked banned as well? I have seen photos of the D6960-68 batch on Cambridge and Kings Lynn trains in the 70s, where these trains routed via Stratford not the normal route via Hackney Downs? Edited June 16, 2015 by Clive Mortimore Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueeighties Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) Morning David. C6470 track relaying train at Cramlington, do you have any shots taken that day at the station? I remember me and a couple of mates watching the spectacle for a good few hours, and getting a class 31 cab ride into the bargain :-) Edited June 17, 2015 by blueeighties Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted June 17, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17, 2015 The 30A D696X batch were regulars on the Harwich - Manchester boat train via the Woodhead also. MIke. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 J5234 - those pallet vans look very much like those used on the Ford service between Dagenham and Halewood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted June 17, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) The overall height of a centre headcode Type 3 is the same all the GER and LSTR EMUs with their pantograph locked down, 13 feet 3/4 inch. Under the 13 feet 1 inch maximum height as per the loading guage. The minimum contact wire height under tunnels and bridges is 13 feet 8 inches for 25KVa and 13 feet 5 inches for 6.25KVa. Was the contact wire height of the two tunnels listed below 13 feet 8 inches when the line was converted from 6.25 KVa to 25KVa? Where EMUs being towed with the panotgraph locked banned as well? I have seen photos of the D6960-68 batch on Cambridge and Kings Lynn trains in the 70s, where these trains routed via Stratford not the normal route via Hackney Downs? As I understand it, the ban was because arcing to the horns was possible in these tunnels. I suppose EMUs were not a problem because the panto had electrical protection built in already. I don't have a Sectional Appendix for the GE lines, but this would no doubt give further details. Prior to when the voltage changed, which is inferred as 1975, I don't think there was a problem with the centre headcode locos using the route. If one did find itself on a Cambridge service aftert the ban it was supposed to be routed via Seven Sisters I believe. Edit: Here's a link to a BR Periodic Operating Notice which gives details of the ban on page 42. Edited June 17, 2015 by stovepipe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Popular Post DaveF Posted June 17, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Popular Post Share Posted June 17, 2015 Morning David. C6470 track relaying train at Cramlington, do you have any shots taken that day at the station? I remember me and a couple of mates watching the spectacle for a good few hours, and getting a class 31 cab ride into the bargain :-) I have four others, reproduced below. If anyone wonders why photos taken on the same day have non sequential file numbers it's because I used two cameras at that time. Cramlington 31297 p.w.train 19th Feb 84 C6469 Cramlington 19th Feb 84 C6510 Cramlington 19th Feb 84 C6511 Cramlington 19th Feb 84 C6512 David 24 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Eastern Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hi David, I've been admiring your photo's for sometime now and always pop into your Flickr albums for some NE inspiration. Do you have any information on the coach in photo C6469, its obviously an ex-Gresley but would love to know more about it as it would be a good modelling topic to do. Regards Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 The super-elevation at Cramlington is very obvious in those photos, isn't it? Makes my shoulder hurt to think of it...Looking at the dates, I would have visited there around the same time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold DaveF Posted June 17, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hi David, I've been admiring your photo's for sometime now and always pop into your Flickr albums for some NE inspiration. Do you have any information on the coach in photo C6469, its obviously an ex-Gresley but would love to know more about it as it would be a good modelling topic to do. Regards Chris Sorry Chris, I don't know anything more about the coach. The only other photo I have of a similar crane and coach is below, taken after the sleeping car train derailment at Morpeth. Morpeth self propelled track laying crane and coach 25th June 84 C6566 It might be worth looking at Paul Bartlet's photos. David 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Was the contact wire height of the two tunnels listed below 13 feet 8 inches when the line was converted from 6.25 KVa to 25KVa? I don't know of many particular locations but the conversion of 6.25 kV lines to 25 kV was achieved by redesigning the end fitting of 'Bridge Arms' (IIRC the full title was something like 'Support arms for use under overbridges') from a claw shape which created high electrical stress points to a smooth shape which created much lower electrical stress. This allowed a reduction in the required gap between 'live' and 'earth'. In some locations I believe the tunnel or bridge arch was additionally lined with metal sheel so that too presented a smoother surface. The reduced clearance should have allowed the minimum wire height to be altered to the 13ft 8in stated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) Hi David, I've been admiring your photo's for sometime now and always pop into your Flickr albums for some NE inspiration. Do you have any information on the coach in photo C6469, its obviously an ex-Gresley but would love to know more about it as it would be a good modelling topic to do. Chris, A quick look through: http://www.departmentals.com/photos/tags/dormitory might turn up something. Possibly stabled at the PW engineer's yard at Low fell in their day? P Edited June 17, 2015 by Porcy Mane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Popular Post DaveF Posted June 17, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Popular Post Share Posted June 17, 2015 Some photos from Lincolnshire this evening, including two of the same bridge at different times. Bardney left Class 105 Lincoln Central to Coningsby, right Class 114 Firsby to Lincoln Central Aug 68 J1389 Bardney down empty tube wagons April 72 J2896 Holton le Moor B1 61107 up goods delivering water to crossing keepers house Sept 63 J064 Holton le Moor Class 31 D5554 shunting Nettleton mines iron ore sidings April 69 J1585 Fledborough LD&ECR bridge over River Trent Aug 64 J154 Fledborough LD&ECR viaduct over River Trent Oct 75 J4992 David 36 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Market65 Posted June 17, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hi, Dave. Like the Lincolnshire photo's, in particular J064, of B1, 61107, on an up goods at Holton le Moor, in September, 1963 - it oozes atmosphere. Regarding the Gresley coach, on looking at the link, as given in the earlier posting above, it is a former end-vestibule all third. All the best, Market65. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 The Trent viaduct ended up in this form after a freight train derailment. I never have seen photo's of it though. I believe the line closed after another derailment here. The section appendix states Clifton on Trent and High Marnham intermediate block signals must not be passed at danger in the event of telephone failure. I wonder why??? <G> http://www.lymmobservatory.net/railways/sbdiagrams/high_marnham.jpg http://www.lymmobservatory.net/railways/sbdiagrams/clifton_on_trent.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) J4992 - Fledborough viaduct is now open for cyclists and walkers. You can follow the closed line from Pywipe Junction (or even from Lincoln along the Fossdyke) as far as the High Marnham area. Edited June 17, 2015 by eastwestdivide Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted June 17, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 17, 2015 As I understand it, the ban was because arcing to the horns was possible in these tunnels. I suppose EMUs were not a problem because the panto had electrical protection built in already. I don't have a Sectional Appendix for the GE lines, but this would no doubt give further details. Prior to when the voltage changed, which is inferred as 1975, I don't think there was a problem with the centre headcode locos using the route. If one did find itself on a Cambridge service aftert the ban it was supposed to be routed via Seven Sisters I believe. Edit: Here's a link to a BR Periodic Operating Notice which gives details of the ban on page 42. Hi Stovepipe Thanks for the link. I have often heard people say that centre headcode Type 3 were banned from the GER lines, usally the reason is the use of fixed tension OLE on the lines to Chelmsford and Southend on hot days due to the expanded wires dropping mid span. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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