Dave F's photos - ongoing - more added each day

[The Stationmaster]

It's the first time I've seen one on the end of a mineral, though I have seen those white-edged boxes on the sides.

Nobody ever seemed to know what they were for - I think the original idea was for maintenance information but that seems to have been very quickly forgotten.  Possibly the 'Modern Railways' edition which originally published details of the changes that included the white boxes might explain what they were meant for?

[Enterprisingwestern]

Re J840.

D1702 would be a French engined class 48 at this time, more than likely worked into Toton from it's home at Tinsley.

 

Mike.

[Porcy Mane]

Odd thing is I can't ever remember seeing one with a black patch on the end!

There was a discussion in the 16 ton mineral thread regarding the black patches and a good few photo examples.

This yootube link springs to mind:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/36891-16t-minerals/?view=findpost&p=1145832

 at about 3:44 in.

 

A search for "patches" in that thread should turn up some stuff.

 

The white Squares (Variation of)  I believe were first shown on examples of experimental liveries on goods wagons at the exhibition that celebrated the Golden Jubilee of the Institution of Locomotive Engineers that was held in the goods yard at Marylebone Station, London, 11-14 May 1961.

I'll check my books later but think that on adoption of the revised liveries (1963?) the squares were to have a code inserted that indicated the speed rating of the vehicle. Not to sure but I'll get back on that.

P

[The Stationmaster]

There was a discussion in the 16 ton mineral thread regarding the black patches and a good few photo examples.

This yootube link springs to mind:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/36891-16t-minerals/?view=findpost&p=1145832

 at about 3:44 in.

 

A search for "patches" in that thread should turn up some stuff.

 

The white Squares (Variation of)  I believe were first shown on examples of experimental liveries on goods wagons at the exhibition that celebrated the Golden Jubilee of the Institution of Locomotive Engineers that was held in the goods yard at Marylebone Station, London, 11-14 May 1961.

I'll check my books later but think that on adoption of the revised liveries (1963?) the squares were to have a code inserted that indicated the speed rating of the vehicle. Not to sure but I'll get back on that.

P

The original date for white squares sounds about right to me and I'm not sure if the livery change was 1963 or possibly a year either side but definitely around then I reckon.

 

I wonder if the black patches were some sort of 'northern' thing - somebody's bright idea in a particular Division perhaps?

[DaveF]

The black patch on the end was for the person uncoupling the portions (cuts) for hump-shunting to put the siding number on for the hump controller. The hump controller sat in that building to the left of the picture; the very building, in fact, in which that was explained to me when visiting Toton Yard during the Easter holidays in 1972. Lots of merchandise wagons had a small plywood panel on the RHS of the end for the same reason.

I wasn't aware any 16-tonners had cleats for attaching sheets to; you learn something every day, don't you?

 

When I visited Toton in Spring 1964 and was allowed to do the point setting for a few trains under the hump controller's supervision the siding numbers were chalked on the right hand side of the end of the wagons so that they were easily visible.

 

Would a 14 year old be allowed to do that now?  At least I sent each cut of wagons into the right siding.

 

David

[DaveF]

Electrics today, of the Southern multiple unit type in  North Kent.

 

The routes may or may not be right!

 

Gravesend Class 415 5168 Charing Cross to Gillingham Nov 79 C4894

 

 

Higham Class 415 5140 Cannon St to Rochester Jan 76 C2598.

 

 

Rochester Class 414 6133 to Victoria 18th March 78 C3729

 

 

Bax Crossing Class 419 MLV 68009 Dover to Victoria May 77 C3332

 

 

Graveney Class 411 7154 Ramsgate to Victoria March 75 C1893

 

David

[Clive Mortimore]

Presumably these were replaced by the ice-blue Covhops? The only 16-tonners I'd seen cleats on were the cupboard-door ones that SNCF returned at the end of the 1940s.

Hi Brian and all

 

I always thought 16 ton mineral wagons were used to transport sugar beet not refined sugar. They ran from the goods yards of East Anglia to the various British Sugar plants. The Covhops were for refined sugar from Tate and Lyle, Silvertown, London. Tate and Lyle used imported sugar cane not beet.

 

Edit, Why would sugar beet need sheeting? The farmers leave it in huge piles by the field entrance for collection after harvest. No one nicks because you can't do anything with it, except this family who moved from Somerset. "We saw a big pile of turnips, so we took a couple. They took ages to cook and tasted horrible."

Edited July 16, 2014 by Clive Mortimore

[Porcy Mane]

I always thought 16 ton mineral wagons were used to transport sugar beet not refined sugar. They ran from the goods yards of East Anglia to the various British Sugar plants. The Covhops were for refined sugar from Tate and Lyle, Silvertown, London. Tate and Lyle used imported sugar cane not beet.

I was in the same mind as you until I read the reference. It was quite recent.

I've spent a couple hours looking for the original source but haven't turned it up at the moment. It's going to be a while before I can start dredging again as life will be getting in the way over the next few days. One of the things that struck me is that improved side and end door seals would be needed but I remember thinking that the written source of the info was reliable.

Apologies to Dave for dragging his photo thread off topic.

 

P

[Market65]

Hi, Dave. Good selection of EMU photo's this evening. Units going about their everyday work. Please keep the photo's coming.

 

All the best,

 

Market65.

[DaveF]

I was in the same mind as you until I read the reference. It was quite recent.

I've spent a couple hours looking for the original source but haven't turned it up at the moment. It's going to be a while before I can start dredging again as life will be getting in the way over the next few days. One of the things that struck me is that improved side and end door seals would be needed but I remember thinking that the written source of the info was reliable.

Apologies to Dave for dragging his photo thread off topic.

 

P

 

I don't mind at all, it's not really off topic, it all helps clarify what was actually going on at the time on the railway.

 

By the way 16T opens may also have been used for transporting the fine soil removed from the beet during processing, it went to places like Fisons to be bagged and sold to gardeners.  Sometimes sugar beet pulp would be carried by train.  It is a by product of sugar manufacture and is used as feed for animals including cattle and horses.  

 

David

[buckdancer]

We used to see sugar beet trains heading, in season, from the Burton direction, south, along the South Staffs towards Stourbridge.

They weren't covered with tarps as far as I remember.

[Fat Controller]

I don't mind at all, it's not really off topic, it all helps clarify what was actually going on at the time on the railway.

 

By the way 16T opens may also have been used for transporting the fine soil removed from the beet during processing, it went to places like Fisons to be bagged and sold to gardeners.  Sometimes sugar beet pulp would be carried by train.  It is a by product of sugar manufacture and is used as feed for animals including cattle and horses.  

 

David

I think the sugar was possibly conveyed in large sacks in the 16-tonners. 

The beet-pulp traffic lasted until quite late- I remember vans of it at the Farmer's Supply place at Hexham in 1983-4.

[Clive Mortimore]

I think the sugar was possibly conveyed in large sacks in the 16-tonners. 

 

Hi Brian

 

I was thinking of the poor sod who would open the side door and be immersed in 16 tons of sugar, it would flow out like water.

[Poor Old Bruce]

The Toton pictures also show what to do with a dead Brake Van.

[Oldddudders]

C2598 at Higham shows just how the depth of Winter can be there. The cliff in the background is punctured by the dead-straight tunnel, originally bored by the canal builders. It was always falling down, and there was a full-time tunnel walker to ensure it was known about when it happened. A troglodyte job if ever there was one!

 

I think the station staff at that time were Leading Railmen Reg Hamblin and Bert Hyland, although I'd actually moved job from Strood to Grove Park the previous month.

[eastwestdivide]

C4894 - running 'wrong line' as off-peak at Gravesend, they regularly used the up platform for the Gillingham semi-fasts in both directions, and the down for the terminating stopping services.

 

C3332 - headcode '50' normally Ramsgate-Chatham-Victoria rather than Dover, despite the presence of the MLV. Although the vast majority of services joined/split at Faversham, in the up direction they usually kept the originating headcode of the front portion. You did get MLVs on odd non-boat train services. Alternatively, the headcode could be wrong and it could have been the Dover portion (normally 74 from the docks or 30 from Priory).

 

C3729 - just approaching Rochester Bridge past Brewster Printing, the big grey building behind it. All that area between railway and the river from Rochester station to Rochester Bridge, including the extensive goods yard, has been flattened for redevelopment.

 

Nice selection from my old stomping ground - thanks.

Edited July 17, 2014 by eastwestdivide

[The Stationmaster]

I don't mind at all, it's not really off topic, it all helps clarify what was actually going on at the time on the railway.

 

By the way 16T opens may also have been used for transporting the fine soil removed from the beet during processing, it went to places like Fisons to be bagged and sold to gardeners.  Sometimes sugar beet pulp would be carried by train.  It is a by product of sugar manufacture and is used as feed for animals including cattle and horses.  

 

David

 

 

We used to see sugar beet trains heading, in season, from the Burton direction, south, along the South Staffs towards Stourbridge.

They weren't covered with tarps as far as I remember.

Sugar beet wasn't sheeted - the only requirement was to make sure the wagons (16tonners) were properly cleaned first and also cleaned afterwards if they went back to any other traffic.  The beet was simply loaded loose and still in many cases with quite a lot of field dirt - hence the need to clean the wagons before they went into other traffic subsequently.

 

Beet pulp was normally despatched bagged, in paper sacks, and certainly in later years it was usually sent in Vanfits to avoid any chance of wettage.

[The Lurker]

C2598 at Higham shows just how the depth of Winter can be there. The cliff in the background is punctured by the dead-straight tunnel, originally bored by the canal builders. It was always falling down, and there was a full-time tunnel walker to ensure it was known about when it happened. A troglodyte job if ever there was one!

 

I think the station staff at that time were Leading Railmen Reg Hamblin and Bert Hyland, although I'd actually moved job from Strood to Grove Park the previous month.

Eventually there was a derailment due to a landslide.

 

And of course since then they've relined the tunnel to stop it all happening. I well remember being on perhaps the best office Christmas party ever - VSOE from Victoria pulled by Clan Line (I think) and people who were standing by the windows being showered in the water running through the chalk, both there and down by the coast (I imagine Shakespeare tunnel)

 

And here is a link for anyone who wants to know more about the tunnel

 

http://www.kentrail.org.uk/higham_tunnel.htm

[LNERGE]

I had a ride through the tunnel in a Javelin on a test run sometime back. I noted many different linings to the tunnel so it wasn't completely relined?

[Enterprisingwestern]

wettage.

 

I'm just going to have to work that into a conversation sometime soon!

Thanks.

 

Mike

 

[DaveF]

Today we have a ferry, pier and trains.  Where else could we be but New Holland Pier?  

 

The ferry is the Farringford which replaced the "Castles" - Lincoln 1941- 1978, Tattershall 1934 - 1972  and Wingfield 1934 - 1974.  

 

The Farringford was used from 1974 - 1981.  She was originally built in 1948 for the Isle of Wight service and was rebuilt as a side loading car ferry before transfer to the Humber service

 

The service ceased when the Humber Bridge was opened.  Friends who used the service were very glad when the bridge opened, it was not unknown for ferries to run aground and be stranded, the Humber is notorious for rapidly shifting sandbanks.

 

The pier still exists as part of an industry,  trains still run through New Holland to reach Barton on Humber.

 

As a teenager I sailed past the pier many times both on Dad's boat and with friends but neither Dad nor I seem to have taken photos from the Humber of the Pier.

 

 

New Holland Pier Class 114 dmu March 78 J5965

 

 

New Holland Pier Class 114 dmu and coal wagons March 78 J5966

 

 

Farringford the last ferry used approaching New Holland March 78 J5967

 

 

New Holland Pier car disembarking from Farringford March 78 J5969

 

 

New Holland Pier ramp down to ferry March 78 J5973

 

There will be more photos of the line in due course.

David

 

Edited for spelling and to add a bit.

David

Edited July 18, 2014 by DaveF

[Market65]

Hi, Dave. The Humber Ferry is both local history and memories for me. I remember my Father taking me to see it depart from Hull on many occasions. When we got BBC Radio Humberside, there would always be the tide times given out along with the news - to see how the Ferry was going to be sailing. It always seemed to be a class 114 from New Holland Pier. All swept away by the Humber Bridge.

 

All the best,

 

Market65.

[Suddaby]

Hi Dave,

 

Great memories of the Humber ferries there Dave. A Sunday afternoon out often comprised a trip on the Ferry and back again. For a long time (until 1975 I think - I went round on my motorbike to Cadwell Park - still no bridge then!), the pier was the only bit of Lincolnshire I touched, despite having lived a river's width away since the early 50's. I used to love standing watching the engines. My last ferry trip came in 1974 I think, when it was hired by Hull College of Education for a trip/disco/party/drinking session(!) out to Spurn Point and back, we also called at New Holland that night as well.

I notice the coal wagons on the pier, which fetched in the coal for the old "Castle Class" ferries. Was Faringford also coal fired?

 

Kevin

Edited July 18, 2014 by Suddaby

[DaveF]

Hi Dave,

 

Great memories of the Humber ferries there Dave. A Sunday afternoon out often comprised a trip on the Ferry and back again. For a long time (until 1975 I think - I went round on my motorbike to Cadwell Park - still no bridge then!), the pier was the only bit of Lincolnshire I touched, despite having lived a river's width away since the early 50's. I used to love standing watching the engines. My last ferry trip came in 1974 I think, when it was hired by Hull College of Education for a trip/disco/party/drinking session(!) out to Spurn Point and back, we also called at New Holland that night as well.

I notice the coal wagons on the pier, which fetched in the coal for the old "Castle Class" ferries. Was Faringford also coal fired?

 

Kevin

 

Farringford had diesel engines as below, the wagons were still there as Lincoln Castle was still around though not normally used.

 

 2 x 6 cyl 4SCSA 6SKM Crossley oil engines, 10" x 12", producing 420 bhp each at 650 rpm, driving 2 generators, each 225kw 350v DC, connected to 2 electric motors each driving independent paddlewheels

 

David

Edited July 18, 2014 by DaveF

[DaveF]

A trip to Scotland tonight to look at Mossend North in BR days, with a mix of liveries.

 

 

Mossend North 86243 Motorail Stirling to Euston 14th Aug 87 C8970

 

 

Mossend North 37049 & 37326 iron ore Hunterston to Ravenscraig 29th March 89 C11814

 

 

Mossend North 26046 down ballast 29th March 89 C11816

 

 

 

Mossend North 37373 down speedlink 29th March 89 C11821

 

 

Mossend North 20165 & 20138 up le 5th April 91 C15726

 

Edited to amend the year from 1987 to 1989 on three images

David

Edited July 18, 2014 by DaveF