Dave F's photos - ongoing - more added each day

[jonny777]

Regarding 'Cotham Class 37 D6830 from Newark towards Bottesford Sept 68 J1428',

 

If this was taken on a Saturday then it is more likely to be a Doncaster - Toton inter-yard working. These operated on Saturdays where the trips to Toton from LIncoln or Immingham don't seem to have. Almost everything else from the Lincoln direction in my 1970 WTT was company oil trains or Freightliners from Humberside.

 

 

 

You seem to have missed my post 6381. It was the 0815 Hull to Colwick. 

[Mallard60022]

C025, far centre right. I wonder if they are still together?

 

J0978.   Green Warship + green Bulleid stock = perfect match     Is that a maroon Gresley coach farther back in the train??

Last workings of the Bulleid stock around this time in 67 and yes, I think that is a Gresley further back.

Lovely pics again David and I say that despite never quite coming to terms with the Warships replacing the Pacifics on the Exeter turns (except when they died of course  ).

Phil

Edited May 2, 2016 by Mallard60022

[Market65]

Hi, Dave. Lovely photo of Crich, showing some fascinating trams.

The photos of diesel hydraulics are terrific, and in J0798, that carriage has beading visible along with the rainstrip on the roof, and is clearly a Gresley carriage - I think one of the long lived buffet cars.

 

With warmest regards,

 

Rob.

 

P.S. Congratulations on the second anniversary of this magnificent thread. Well done, and I hope it will continue to inspire and educate for many years to come.

[russ p]

Love the little 4w Electric loco

[Rugd1022]

Hi Dave

If it is D856 Trojen it's a rare shot because the Southern men were only trained on the Swindon built Class 42 Warships there was a plan to train the Salisbury Drivers on the NBL Warships but it got dropped.

 

Nice to see the hydraulic photos.

 

Cheers Gareth

 

It's definitely an NBL 43 Gareth, the marker and tail lights just below the lamp irons on the cab front are in the right position to identify it as such. They must have been short of 42s that day!

 

​Edited to add : Dave, your maroon / full yellow ends Swindon built Western at Taunton could be one of the following : D1001, D1008, D1012 or D1016, going by the (apparent) length of the nameplate my money's on D1008 or D1012. For the record, fellow Swindon built machines D1002 and D1025 also carried MFYE livery but we can easily rule them both out as D1002 didn't get its full yellow ends until October '69 and D1025 was built without the headboard clips.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Rugd1022

[AberdeenBill]

It's definitely an NBL 43 Gareth, the marker and tail lights just below the lamp irons on the cab front are in the right position to identify it as such. They must have been short of 42s that day!

 

 

 

How did a 42 and a 43 differ from a driver's perspective?

 

Thanks,

Bill

[Astockfan101]

How did a 42 and a 43 differ from a driver's perspective?

 

Thanks,

Bill

They had different engines from each other also a Class 43 HST is very different to a Class 42.  

[TEDDYBEAR D9521]

It's definitely an NBL 43 Gareth, the marker and tail lights just below the lamp irons on the cab front are in the right position to identify it as such. They must have been short of 42s that day!

 

​Edited to add : Dave, your maroon / full yellow ends Swindon built Western at Taunton could be one of the following : D1001, D1008, D1012 or D1016, going by the (apparent) length of the nameplate my money's on D1008 or D1012. For the record, fellow Swindon built machines D1002 and D1025 also carried MFYE livery but we can easily rule them both out as D1002 didn't get its full yellow ends until October '69 and D1025 was built without the headboard clips.

Yes after looking again you are correct,very rare for the NBL Warship on this route.

[The Pilotman]

Well, I've learned something today. There's a song by John Shuttleworth (sung in a duet with Leo Sayer) about Crich Tram Museum which I'd always assumed had been made up for the purposes of the song. Now I know different. For those who haven't heard it (which is probably everyone reading this) the song's chorus goes like this:

 

At the Crich Tram Museum

I went with a lad called Ian

We were there from nine

'Til chucking-out time

There was so much there worth seeing

 

Sorry for the thread creep, lovely pictures, as always. And congratulations on two years; there must be a great many of us who deeply appreciate the time and effort you invest in your daily posts.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Western Aviator

[TEDDYBEAR D9521]

They had different engines from each other also a Class 43 HST is very different to a Class 42.

 

A Class 43 was a NBL Warship before HST's came,the HST took the class 43 numbers after the Warships went

[Rugd1022]

How did a 42 and a 43 differ from a driver's perspective?

 

Thanks,

Bill

 

With a 42 you had a chance of getting home roughly on time, with a 43 you had half a chance of catching fire or being gassed by the exhaust fumes..!

[TEDDYBEAR D9521]

How did a 42 and a 43 differ from a driver's perspective?

 

Thanks,

Bill

Class 42 Warships were Swindon built with Maybach engines D800-D832 and D866-D870 with Mekydro transmissions

 

Class 43 Warships were NBL built at Glasgow with MAN engines D832-D865 with Voith transmission

 

D830 had Paxman engines rated at 1,200bhp with Mekydro transmission

 

D800-D802 The Maybach engines were rated at 1,056 bhp

 

D803-D829 and D831- D832 D866-D870 The Maybach engines were rated at 1,152bhp

 

D832-D865 The MAN engines were rated at 1,100bhp

 

The locos had 2 engines just like the Westerns

 

Cheers Gareth

Edited May 1, 2016 by TEDDYBEAR D9521

[russ p]

Is there any sound footage of a NBL one, I'd love to know how different they sounded.

Did they have the same controller as a Swindon one?

[Geoff Endacott]

How did a 42 and a 43 differ from a driver's perspective?

 

You didn't need a gas mask in a 42.

 

Geoff Endacott

[Phil Bullock]

Hi Guys

 

Main difference is in the transmissions

 

Voith as fitted to class 43s consists of multiple torque converters, oil is simply pumped up or down the stages to match engine output to load and demand. Pretty seamless...as fitted to Westerns, just take a ride behind any of the preserved ones to get an idea of the seamless transition between stages, change in engine note can be only clue in the twin engine/transmission set up

 

Mekydros as fitted to Class 42s consist of single torque converter plus gear box - torque converter has to be emptied to disengage drive and change gear, much less seamless that a Voith and is why Lickey Banker Hymeks 7021-5 had the second stage of their Mekydros locked out to prevent lurching gear changes at the critical banking speed around 20mph

 

Again take a ride behind a preserved Hymek to experience the "floating" sensation as the change takes place

 

Whilst the 43s weren't as good as the 42's - better transmissions but weaker engines with poorly designed installations, especially exhausts hence Nigel's comments - NBL poor build quality

 

But I never remember having a 43 fail on me on the Cotswold line on the 10 trips I did 68 to 71 - and as late as their last year in 1971 they regularly made it up the Lickey (1M08 Plymouth Manchester) and via Stourbridge (6M20 Worcester to Curzon St) to Brum, and on one occasion as far north as Crewe on a motorail...

 

Happy days!

 

Phil

Edited May 1, 2016 by Phil Bullock

[Phil Bullock]

Hi again

 

Re J0978...

 

4 points of identification between class 42 and 43

 

Relative positions of lamp brackets/lamps on cab front as highlighted by Nidge - but rather in shadow here don't you think?

 

Shed plate pad on front buffer beam on Class 43 only - not visible in this shot

 

Position of engine exhausts - Class 42 on roof centre line, on Class 43 off set towards cantrail - in this shot exhaust would be at far end on a 43 but I cant it where I would expect it to be, back from the second cooling fan grille

 

Cooling fan grilles - best seen on Brian's excellent Shawplan blog https://shawplan.wordpress.com/extreme-etchings/ , on class 42 grille is flush with roof with walkway over top, on class 43 grille is raised over walkway. Those fan grilles look like the Class 42 pattern to me. Now two 43s had Class 42 pattern cooling fan grilles to my knowledge - 833 and 861 at one end only IIRC

 

So sorry to be a pooper but I reckon its a 42 - 43s were rare but not unknown on the Waterloo - Exeters, but probably only in the hands of WR - or Ex WR - men - who signed them.

 

Hope that makes sense ...

 

And there are plenty of others on here who will know what that loco number is in an instance - have PMed two of them in the hope he might help

 

CHeers

 

Phil

 

PS Edited to add - see comments on Flikr from Robert Carroll https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwf2009/5571451997/in/photolist-9uk9zc-dEQSA1-g9SPTa-sttuGj-ogezVu-o2C2ic-g9ShZj-dF4sAg, hadn't seen that when I added this post

Edited May 1, 2016 by Phil Bullock

[DaveF]

Hi again

 

Re J0978...

 

4 points of identification between class 42 and 43

 

Relative positions of lamp brackets/lamps on cab front as highlighted by Nidge - but rather in shadow here don't you think?

 

Shed plate pad on front buffer beam on Class 43 only - not visible in this shot

 

Position of engine exhausts - Class 42 on roof centre line, on Class 43 off set towards cantrail - in this shot exhaust would be at far end on a 43 but I cant it where I would expect it to be, back from the second cooling fan grille

 

Cooling fan grilles - best seen on Brian's excellent Shawplan blog https://shawplan.wordpress.com/extreme-etchings/ , on class 42 grille is flush with roof with walkway over top, on class 43 grille is raised over walkway. Those fan grilles look like the Class 42 pattern to me. Now two 43s had Class 42 pattern cooling fan grilles to my knowledge - 833 and 861 at one end only IIRC

 

So sorry to be a pooper but I reckon its a 42 - 43s were rare but not unknown on the Waterloo - Exeters, but probably only in the hands of WR - or Ex WR - men - who signed them.

 

Hope that makes sense ...

 

And there are plenty of others on here who will know what that loco number is in an instance - have PMed two of them in the hope he might help

 

CHeers

 

Phil

 

PS Edited to add - see comments on Flikr from Robert Carroll https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwf2009/5571451997/in/photolist-9uk9zc-dEQSA1-g9SPTa-sttuGj-ogezVu-o2C2ic-g9ShZj-dF4sAg, hadn't seen that when I added this post

 

 

Phil,

 

Thanks for putting the bit about Roberts Carroll's comments on the photo on my flickr site - I'd forgotten I'd put that photo on flickr.

 

David

[Swindon 123]

J0978.   Green Warship + green Bulleid stock = perfect match     Is that a maroon Gresley coach farther back in the train??

It does look like a Gresley, probably a buffet as a few of them where moved onto the Southern Region sometime towards the end of the 60's. I've seen something written about it happening, perhaps in an old Railway Observer. I'll have to try and find it.

 

Paul J.

[stovepipe]

You seem to have missed my post 6381. It was the 0815 Hull to Colwick.

 

I had thought 8M74 was a loaded oil train, rather than a coal train, hence my search for an alternative, but I've since hooked out a 1969 WTT for Hull and I can see it loaded in the mineral sidings there.

 

Why Notts coal wasn't good enough for Colwick im not sure, though the second set of wagons appear to be carrying something else.

Edited May 2, 2016 by stovepipe

[Phil Bullock]

It does look like a Gresley, probably a buffet as a few of them where moved onto the Southern Region sometime towards the end of the 60's. I've seen something written about it happening, perhaps in an old Railway Observer. I'll have to try and find it.

 

Paul J.

Hi Paul

 

Hope this helps

 

http://www.semgonline.com/coach/gresbuf.html

 

Kind regards

 

Phil

[brushman47544]

b Pirbright Junction Class 42 D811 Daring Waterloo to Exeter July 67 J979.jpg

Pirbright Junction Class 42 ?D811 Daring Waterloo to Exeter July 67 J979

 

Great to see some more photos of hydraulics, If you have more yes please...

 

Not sure this is D811. The digits look wider and more rounded, such as 809/829.

[Rugd1022]

Hi again

 

Re J0978...

 

4 points of identification between class 42 and 43

 

Relative positions of lamp brackets/lamps on cab front as highlighted by Nidge - but rather in shadow here don't you think?

 

Shed plate pad on front buffer beam on Class 43 only - not visible in this shot

 

Position of engine exhausts - Class 42 on roof centre line, on Class 43 off set towards cantrail - in this shot exhaust would be at far end on a 43 but I cant it where I would expect it to be, back from the second cooling fan grille

 

Cooling fan grilles - best seen on Brian's excellent Shawplan blog https://shawplan.wordpress.com/extreme-etchings/ , on class 42 grille is flush with roof with walkway over top, on class 43 grille is raised over walkway. Those fan grilles look like the Class 42 pattern to me. Now two 43s had Class 42 pattern cooling fan grilles to my knowledge - 833 and 861 at one end only IIRC

 

So sorry to be a pooper but I reckon its a 42 - 43s were rare but not unknown on the Waterloo - Exeters, but probably only in the hands of WR - or Ex WR - men - who signed them.

 

Hope that makes sense ...

 

And there are plenty of others on here who will know what that loco number is in an instance - have PMed two of them in the hope he might help

 

CHeers

 

Phil

 

PS Edited to add - see comments on Flikr from Robert Carroll https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwf2009/5571451997/in/photolist-9uk9zc-dEQSA1-g9SPTa-sttuGj-ogezVu-o2C2ic-g9ShZj-dF4sAg, hadn't seen that when I added this post

 

Having read your post Phil I shall now be scoffing a slice of humble pie, and having had another look at Dave's pics I've noticed something else - the 'D856' shot is actually one of the D800-D812 batch of 42s with a single vertical dividing bar in the bodyside grilles, and the 'D811' shot is one of the D813-D832 / D866-D870 batch of 42s with two vertical bars, we can rule out D870 of course as the one in the pic doesn't have the horn cowling on the can roof.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Rugd1022

[DaveF]

First,  many thanks to those who are trying to identify the Warships in yesterday's photos - I'm glad I said I wasn't convinced by the numbers Dad had written down.

 

Thanks also for the other very kind comments about the photos.

 

Today's photos are from Newark and Dry Doddington, between Grantham and Newark.

 

 

Dry Doddington Class 254 down ex pass Oct 81 C5583

 

 

Newark south of Class 47 down  09.00 Kings X to Newcastle July 76 C2860

 

 

Newark South up ex pass possibly 1A27 13.00 Kings X to Newcastle Jan 70 C201

 

 

Newark North Class 55 almost certainly 55016 up ex pass  probably either 08.45 or 1035 Aberdeen to Kings XJuly 77 C3399

 

 

Newark North Class 101 refurbished Newark Northgate to Cleethorpes July 77 C3401

 

 

Edited to add more information from Mark54.

 

 

David

Edited May 6, 2016 by DaveF

[talisman56]

J0978.   Green Warship + green Bulleid stock = perfect match     Is that a maroon Gresley coach farther back in the train??

 

Yes, one of the Buffet cars transferred down to replace the Mk 1 catering stock (RBs) that got hoovered up into the Bournemouth electrification conversions.

 

In 1966 the ones used were 9121/25/27/34, and when they were last used on the SR in 1967 the list was 9117/19/25/27/34. They were always in maroon on the SR and had the coach prefix changed to 'S' (as in S9117E).

 

Edited May 2, 2016 by talisman56

[Phil Bullock]

C201 - just feel the atmosphere

 

Fantastic shots Dave

 

Phil