Stevelewis Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I think it may perhaps be more diplomatic to wait until we have both manufacturers models side by side so that a comparison can be carried out? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Dave, I very seriously considered adding another 71 to my order, however cash is very tight just now so I signed up for a class 74 instead which I hope helps things along. Cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted June 30, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 30, 2016 And I am very willing to wait for something good. Hear hear. I already had two 74s ordered when the decorated samples of the 71 were paraded. No 74 ever wore green, the pantograph work is magnificent and the whole thing looks too good to miss. I have no idea what I'm going to do with a 71 but ordered one anyway E5010 in its unique green FYE livery. There was never any doubt where my hard-earned would go and now I also get the class 71-buyer discount on one of my 74s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted June 30, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 30, 2016 Yes you are right about 'the other firms' delivery date.............only excuse for missing this is that I've been busy of late decorating, gardening etc and have been skimming through available information. But in all seriousness I really do think the DJM version is going to be way in front in terms of quality........as Gwiwer puts it.............the other model will probably look like a Railroad item! And I am very willing to wait for something good. Yes,I did use the term "better option" but I would not denigrate the the Hornby version in any way. Certainly it does not merit the "Railroad" tag.It is simply a question of personal judgement and preference.They are both excellent.I believe the DJM model goes that extra mile.That alone influenced my decision(s). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted June 30, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 30, 2016 ordered mine today. Would be interested to know the final totals of each of the versions when the order goes in, is that something you would share ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 ordered mine today. Would be interested to know the final totals of each of the versions when the order goes in, is that something you would share ? Hi mate, i'll give it some thought as my initial thinking to your question was no, but in retrospect, if might galvanize thought processes a bit. Although bearing in mind it was crowdfunding, it will not be a good indicator of the market place for such a model. For example, the 74 crowd funded model is quite slow by comparison, but that could be due to a number of factors including lack of liveries and life span of the real thing, to people waiting to see what the 71 comes out like first. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miles73128 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Very glad to see that orders for your class 71 are flooding in. This must reflect the trouble you have gone to with the model and your open contribution to the dialogue on RM web. Yes lots of us are looking forward to getting our hands on one and are doubtless pleased to hear that production start is imminent. The 'other company' looking to sell OO gauge 71's has given up on arrival dates for its produce it appears. I did have an order for E5001 with them but have canceled and bought another DJM 71 instead......that's three I've put in for! There in stock today 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted June 30, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) Hi mate, i'll give it some thought as my initial thinking to your question was no, but in retrospect, if might galvanize thought processes a bit. Although bearing in mind it was crowdfunding, it will not be a good indicator of the market place for such a model. For example, the 74 crowd funded model is quite slow by comparison, but that could be due to a number of factors including lack of liveries and life span of the real thing, to people waiting to see what the 71 comes out like first. Cheers Dave I definitely want a class 74, but my holding pattern is budgeting, but rest assured when that deadline date comes a class 74 order will go in :-) When I first became a project manager decades ago the lecturer said to me a good Project Manager is one that has a start date for their next project, as it ensures their current project will have a defined end date. When neither the GNR No1 or 1st Gen hst have end dates for subscription I haven't rushed to subscribe, but as soon as you announced the end date for the 71.. my order went in.. I suspect the class 74 is the same... When the deadline looms, budgets get moved. Edited June 30, 2016 by adb968008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted July 1, 2016 Author Share Posted July 1, 2016 Hi everyone, I have been asked by a few customers to confirm the situation with rain strips and air vents and head codes, plus 1 or 2 other things. Starting with rain strips.....the crowd funded model has rain strips as building another slide set in to the tooling would have impeded on the cost of the model against return. So I left them off and subsequently was very pleased to find a picture of a green one without yellow front end but within rain strips. Also, while on this subject I also found the red stripe version with rain strips too. As for vents, I made a conscious decision at the start of the project to have both styles as no locomotive had both fitted that I could find. The roof vent was removed and plated over around the change in green to blue, and a cab window pillar vent fitted to each cab side pillar each end of the locomotive. Headcodes.....I could have gone the easy route and had sticky ones to go 'on' the face of the glass in the Centre cab front window as per a previous loco design of mine, but this was, I thought to be non authentic and problematical, and as such I designed a plastic strip to fit behind the glass, accessible easily without recourse to cab removal to change head and tail codes each end as and when desired by the user. Pantograph. I decided to make this plastic with a metal head for a couple of reasons. 1) I could make the pantograph more detailed than an all metal one 2) pick up from the pantograph , if I used an all metal one is very 70's and problematical due to the fact that I felt to run under any wires you would need to stop the loco before the catenary, uncouple your train, lift the loco off the track, throw the switch, put back on the track, couple up then manually push the loco and train under the wire to then raise the pantograph to gain power, reversing this process when you came 'off the wire'. I therefore decided that to run on dc or even DCC 2 rail throughout would alleviate the problem as only the panto would need raising and lowering. Having discounted the wired panto idea, it left me with room for a second switch on the underside that allowed for headcodes panels to be turned off instead, as well as the marker lights. It's also worth noting that this model was designed around a specification, and that included not only a smooth coreless motor, but, more importantly to me as a modellers, the ease of installing a DCC decoder, namely a 21 pin DCC decoder. And as such I designed a space large enough to fit a sound version of this type of decoder. However, with a view to those that want to run DCC sound, I couldn't stop there, and designed an adjacent space to fit a large base reflex speaker in an easy clip in cradle on the top of the chassis as I did with the 22, 10000 and class 52 models One of the benefits of 21 pin to me is that you can turn both cab lights on and off independently from each other for true realistic control too. Yes, the cab is easily removable with just 2 screws, the very fine windscreen wipers will be correctly in the 'park' position, yes works plates come factory fitted and are etched brass, and yes again, the buffer beam pipes are pre painted with the correct colour ends, and are in the accessory bag with 2 replace ten valances (pre painted too) Anyway, I hope that answers the questions more fully than I have before, and I humbly remind you all that next Sunday night the order book closes for the crowd funded class 71 @£125.00 per loco. If you have any other questions, please do not hesitate to ask here. Cheers Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matabiau Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) 2) pick up from the pantograph , if I used an all metal one is very 70's and problematical due to the fact that I felt to run under any wires you would need to stop the loco before the catenary, uncouple your train, lift the loco off the track, throw the switch, put back on the track, couple up then manually push the loco and train under the wire to then raise the pantograph to gain power, reversing this process when you came 'off the wire'. I therefore decided that to run on dc or even DCC 2 rail throughout would alleviate the problem as only the panto would need raising and lowering Dave, Not that I am suggesting you should impliment this but I have an LS Models SNCF BB electric locomotive with electrical pick up either from the pantograph or from both rails. To switch between sources you simply pass a magnet over part of the loco's roof. As such you don't need to remove the loco from the track and there is no unsighlty switch, a neat solution to the problem. Edited July 1, 2016 by Matabiau Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted July 1, 2016 Author Share Posted July 1, 2016 Dave, Not that I am suggesting you should impliment this but I have an LS Models SNCF BB electric locomotive with electrical pick up either from the pantograph or from both rails. To switch between sources you simply pass a magnet over part of the loco's roof. As such you don't need to remove the loco from the track and there is no unsighlty switch, a neat solution to the problem. I like the idea, but, and I'm playing devils advocate now, isn't it still very 70's Trix / Marklin technology? We use DCC now so why bother? As I say I'm playing devils advocate. Cheers Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted July 1, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 1, 2016 If you could arrange for the third rail pick up shoes to actually work - that would really be Marklin 1970s! Only joking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matabiau Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I agree, continental manufacturers have to account for customers who have working overhead systems running DC, not uncommon over here, as well as the more recent DCC systems. Very few of your (UK) customers have live overhead systems so there is little point creating a functionality in the hope that people will start putting knitting up. The magnetic switch could have many other uses, such as switching tail lights on and off. I was trying to raise the point that a visible or hard to access mechanical switch shouldn't be a constraint when there is a more discrete solution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted July 1, 2016 Author Share Posted July 1, 2016 I did tinker with the idea of having the panto motorised under DCC but the cost implications would mean another £40-£50 per unit and I didn't want to offer that to crowd funders as I felt that too steep. Would have been nice though eh? Maybe I might offer it on another crowd funded project I'm toying with ;-) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matabiau Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Is there not a means to use a backlit LCD or other display for the route code indicator? That could be commandable via DCC. Amazon Kindles use technology that fix the display without needing a permanent current to maintain the image, surely similar technology could be applied if it exists in the correct size? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivegreen Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) I like the idea, but, and I'm playing devils advocate now, isn't it still very 70's Trix / Marklin technology? We use DCC now so why bother? As I say I'm playing devils advocate. Cheers Dave No 'we' don't ! (But this 'we' doesn't use overhead catenary either, so we is quite happy with what you are doing, Dave !) Edited July 1, 2016 by olivegreen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted July 1, 2016 Author Share Posted July 1, 2016 No 'we' don't ! (But this 'we' doesn't use overhead catenary either, so we is quite happy with what you are doing, Dave !) Lol, great point well put. Cheers mate Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1023 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Good morning Dave. Really good to see a lot of positive comment and good to see you're almost there with it. Can you please clarify the position on the pre-order price for the class 74 and when you intend to shut down pre-orders for the class 74. I intend to purchase a pre-tops one, however I'm quite smitten with both the Hattons GA class 71s and it is a question of budgeting as others have mentioned. Thanks Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted July 2, 2016 Author Share Posted July 2, 2016 Hi Steve, The 74 offer will finish on Sunday too, and will rise to published RRP I afraid. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGP Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 A working pantograph on this model isn't really an issue. They mostly ran with the pans down as it was really only for use in yards. I have ordered one class 71 and one class 74. Both will be shelf queens in my "prototypes and first of class" cabinet. I will be renumbering my 71 to E5000 (maybe E5024) and I have ordered the 74 as E6101. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1023 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Hi Steve, The 74 offer will finish on Sunday too, and will rise to published RRP I afraid. Cheers Dave Thanks Dave - Do you mean 03/07 or 10/07. Cheers Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted July 2, 2016 Author Share Posted July 2, 2016 Hi mate, midnight Sunday 10th July for the 74 as well. cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted July 2, 2016 Author Share Posted July 2, 2016 Hi everyone, Had some more questions in overnight on this project and thought, as i have a decent set of pics, i should reply with my reasoning and back up pics of the real thing. Cheers Dave Questions.... 1) I noticed on an ep model you published that the doors were recessed. In real life they were flush. Will you be correcting this? 1a) Yes, this was corrected before the recent decorated samples and is more flush than before. 2) I like the idea of the booster equipment visible behind the centre bodyside glass, will you be doing this? 2a) I like the idea too, but the booster is actually quite far back from the window and there is a walkway between the window and the booster and in fact the booster doesnt extend more than 2 thirds up the window in the 'visible' area so no, i wont be doing a model representation of the booster. However, i am looking at getting the booster painted on the side of the chassis in a darker colour to represent the booster but at a distance (its almost 10mm in scale back from the glass) to represent it in the shadows. 3) Is yours DCC ready? 3a) yes indeed, its 21pin DCC ready and it is very easy to fit a decoder too. In fact its very easy to fit a speaker into as well, as the photo attached shows. 4) There is a panel behind the door either side that is flush with the bodyside, is yours? 4a) Hi, lol, yes indeed. Ironically this has always been flush on the model even if the doors werent (to start with) 5) Will you be selling the wonderful windscreen wipers and separate lamp irons as spares? 5a) Yes i will, hopefully at launch of the model to crowdsourcers and not heavily delayed like the O2 have been. 6) Why are you ending the crowdsourcing of the 71 on the 10th of July, why not have it go on until you release the model? 6a) Hi, the offer ends, to allow me to lock down quantities i need to order from China and to allow a greater deal of exclusivity of numbers as i have promised to never repeat the running number / livery combo of these models, so if 1 model only sells 130 units to crowdsourcers, they in essence have a very limited edition model and makes their wonderful contribution worth more both to themselves and to any collectors should they decide to sell at a later date. 7) Why are you not painting the whole pantograph head the same colour? 7a) in truth i thought about it, but in reality the centre section of the head (the part that contacts the wire when in yards) got very dirty, very quickly, and actually developed a carbon like substance between the raised areas of the head. As this happened in weeks rather than over the years, i decided to paint this area graphite in colour to faithfully match the loco after only a few weeks service. (photo attached) 8) Will you be producing the model with disc wheels rather than spokes? 8b) Yes i will, and at present i know of only 1 loco that had discs (i'm still looking for pictures of others if anyone has them). And it seems discs were only used as a last resort if spoked ones werent available, certainly on the one i'm thinking of. After all, its an important feature to get right. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted July 2, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 2, 2016 I'm glad to see that the NRM is yet again looking after one of it's none steam locos in their usual way... ie letting it rust away... Shocking.. Andy G 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
metropolitan cammell Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 To agree with the poster above the real thing is in a shocking condition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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