N Gauge Class 390 Pendolino (post Kickstarter) with Rapido

[59004 ( was Shedcombe....)]

Mike/Ben,

 

Having finally seen some high resolution quality pictures of the first Pendolino coach samples.

 

What I see, I do like A LOT.

Very well done to all involved. 

 

However, there's one detail stick out as a sour thumb.

I wonder if the side windows are as intended, or will be amended, as there's a hugh prism effect.

Pictures can be found here:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/105484-news-summary-from-warley-2015/?p=2110426

 

Regards, Michel

[Revolution Ben]

Hi Michel,

 

Yes, the prismatic effect is caused by the light catching the edges of the recess in the rear of the window that is designed in to avoid any sinkage in the centre of the glazing panel.  We've asked Rapido to look at this area and see if they can find a work-around.

 

Of course on the production models this area will be heavily tinted too.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[roundhouse]

As some one had mentioned this a few weeks ago I had a look in tn the flesh and didnt really notice it as much as in the photos.

[Padishar Creel]

hallo,

as a "normalo" I am very impressed with the samples andf am looking forward to seeing more. Now that there is hardware available, is it possible to tell if the corridor connections will for all it's worth touch on straight track?

 

Now thinking of upping my order, hmmmm.....

es grüßt

pc

[Revolution Ben]

 

Hi there,

 

The samples we have are just two DMSOs and two intermediate trailers (both coach U) and they were rushed to us for Warley. Two have now returned for the design team in Canada to assess them!

 

The DMSOs we were sent had a chassis block but no motor, PCB or lighting circuits. Nor were couplers fitted to all vehicles.

 

Next we are expecting a proper, motorised sample of the complete train, with wiring, couplers, lights etc, and at that stage we will be certain to post images, video and more information about couplings. These are all very important operational details!

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[TomE]

Having seen the Pendolino sample in the flesh at Warley, Ben & Mike should be congratulated for getting it absolutely spot on. Shape wise, even from this early sample, it looks right from every angle and I look forward to seeing the next samples. 

 

The prism effect around the windows remains a concern for me. To my eyes it is immediately noticeable, more so than a Farish Mk.1, or a Dapol Maunsell for example. It may well be that it is significantly less noticeable when the windows are tinted, but given the great attention to detail on the rest of the model, it would be a great shame if this became the one negative feature. 

 

Tom. 

[ash39]

The windows do look to be a potential issue, as do the small gaps between the body and the air dam/underframe. However Ben has said these will be tweaked so lets wait and see.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing livery samples. Almost certainly going to order one at that point, possibly two. Really enjoying watching the development process and seeing it all come together.

[alibuchan]

As the Windows will be quite heavily tinted I'm not sure that it will be an issue as most of the effect happens when light passes through it which will be a very small amount.

 

It was stated that this was a first shot that was quickly put together so that there was something to show at Warley, the small gaps could have been due to a bit of flash not cleaned or not pushing the part completely home to get something on show.

 

I am very impressed with the model as it stands and a big thanks goes out to Ben, Mike and the Rapido guys for bringing the model this far in just over 12 months is very impressive.

 

Alistair

[Revolution Ben]

Hello all,

 

The samples we had really were the very first out of the moulds and rushed to us for last weekend because Jason understands the importance of Warley to the Britsh market.  

 

Apart from the several thousand people who visit all the magazines are there too.

 

And, on  top of that, Mike and I were also keen to get something to show everyone because we are very aware that a project such as this that relies so much on trust and goodwill.

 

But since those samples came to us, the design engineer at Rapido who is doing much of the work on this project only saw them for the first time on Wednesday, after they were hand-carried back to Canada by Jason and Bill.

 

He emailed me almost immediately to agree that the glazing and fit of some of the parts needs to be improved, and the factory says this is relatively straightforward to sort.  We should be getting an operating sample soon - perhaps before Xmas but more likely in the New Year - and I look forward to seeing the improvements.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Ben A

[59004 ( was Shedcombe....)]

Thank Ben/Mike and all at Rapido, to take on board all raised points, with an intention to sort them all (as much as possible).

I should be able to release funds early 2016 for a 9-car and an 11-car, but fear, a 3rd unit will not be possible, unfortunately.

 

Is there really no way to order/buy any set at a later point in time?

What is the story with the orders from outside Europe?

Is the ordering deadline, that will be set sometime in the coming months, for Europa and for the orders through Rapido?

 

Regards,

Michel

Edited December 6, 2015 by 59004 ( was Shedcombe....)

[Revolution Mike]

Thank Ben/Mike and all at Rapido, to take on board all raised points, with an intention to sort them all (as much as possible).

I should be able to release fund early 2016 for a 9-car and an 11-car, but fear, a 3rd unit will not be possible, unfortunately.

 

Is there really no way to order/buy any set at a later point in time?

What is the story with the orders from outside Europe?

Is the ordering deadline, that will be set sometime in the coming months, for Europa and for the orders through Rapido?

 

The deadline for orders that we are working to is 31 March 2016. That will be the same deadline for all orders (within Europe through us or outside Europe via Rapido).

 

Just like the APT-E once the order book is closed we will produce what has been ordered.

 

Cheers, Mike

[Revolution Ben]

 

Hi Michel,

 

This was always a project that had to be skewed to reward early adopters.

 

It could only happen if people stepped forward early and en masse - and the one thing guaranteed to stop that would be if people thought they could "wait and see"and let others take the chance.

 

Indeed, if we had succeeded in the Kickstarter then production would have been even more strictly limited to *only* those who pledged by the deadline - one advantage of missing that target was that it did enable the order deadline to be extended for those who were unaware of the Kickstarter, or whose modelling interests lay elsewhere at that time.

 

I am sure there will be models available later - we are perfectly happy for supporters to pledge for more than they need and dump them on eBay later in the hope they can make a few quid for themselves - but from our point of view this run will be all we do.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[ash39]

Been quiet in here for a few weeks! Any news on when you're expecting the first working prototype?

[Revolution Ben]

Hi Ash,

 

We are waiting for the first complete and running prototype for testing.  As soon as it arrives we will let everyone know via our website, and of course here and on the N Gauge Forum too.

 

We have been promised it before Chinese New Year which starts on February 8th.

 

It all depends how much bug-fixing is required as to how soon we will be ready to authorise full production.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[Dr Al]

but from our point of view this run will be all we do.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

Hi Ben

 

I think this is intriguing - there will never be another run, even 3 or 5 years down the line? I understand that you want to reward (us) pledgers, and that's fine, but do think that you'll find there to be future demand once released and folks see them in the flesh, and given the investment in tooling, I find it intriguing that you rule out future runs.

 

Also, how will this work in terms of support long term - spares, repairs and replacement components, particularly consumables like motor brushes, etc, and items that can fall prey to wear, failing, or user stressing like motors, gearing (not that I think you'll produce something bad here - but no matter what, there's going to be natural wastage, user error, etc). Are spares to be made at the same time as the sets and simply retained with the hope that you won't be exhausted of them too swiftly? Or can we be confident that if spares dry up in a few years time, that they'll be replenished?

 

Apologies if this has been covered already - feel free to bump me to the appropriate post

 

Cheers,

Alan

[MGR Hooper!]

Hi Ash,

 

We are waiting for the first complete and running prototype for testing.  As soon as it arrives we will let everyone know via our website, and of course here and on the N Gauge Forum too.

 

We have been promised it before Chinese New Year which starts on February 8th.

 

It all depends how much bug-fixing is required as to how soon we will be ready to authorise full production.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

Is the glazing being re-worked?

[steam-driven boy]

Hi Alan,

I think this is intriguing - there will never be another run, even 3 or 5 years down the line? I understand that you want to reward (us) pledgers, and that's fine, but do think that you'll find there to be future demand once released and folks see them in the flesh, and given the investment in tooling, I find it intriguing that you rule out future runs.

 

I believe Ben is stating the position of RevolutioN Trains, the tooling will be under the ownership of Rapido Trains as I understand it, if Jason and his chums see a demand for another run in a few years time then it could happen but it would be at a conventional commercial pricing rather than the initial 'reward' level we will enjoy.

 

Regards, Gerry.

[Revolution Mike]

We will have spares available from the outset (how long those spares will last we can't say!).

 

Re-running the Pendolino in the future - we have said it definitely won't be re-run in the first 2 years.  After that there would have to be an extremely convincing case for re-running them.  Projects like this only work because people are prepared to step up now, if they think that they can wait for a re-run then the project may never happen and secondly even if it does they may well be disappointed if a second run doesn't appear. If we or Rapido are convinced that at least another 500-1000 will sell (and we can set up an expressions of interest for backorders mechanism to gauge this) then they *might* get re-run, but we don't see that happening in the foreseeable future.

 

Cheers, Mike

[acko22]

I think it is fair to say getting the pendolino actually made in N gauge is a huge step, but as both Mike and Ben point out another production is a difficult one to gauge.

 

Over head n gauge is the ginger step kid (apologise if your ginger or a step kid) its never been a major area of interest in well most gauges, but the Pendolino and hopefully the 321s it may be that little boost to maybe getting more people into modern overhead trains and layouts.

Which in turn could possibly boost the variety available and well make the argument for re runs of items such as the Pendolino and retooling of other stuff such as the Farish class 90s, only time can tell!

 

As things stand we should just be grateful that both Mike and Ben have had the attitude and ability to get us the Pendolino and the TEAs and possibly more goodies in the future!

Edited January 20, 2016 by acko22

[cornish trains jez]

We will have spares available from the outset (how long those spares will last we can't say!).

 

Re-running the Pendolino in the future - we have said it definitely won't be re-run in the first 2 years.  After that there would have to be an extremely convincing case for re-running them.  Projects like this only work because people are prepared to step up now, if they think that they can wait for a re-run then the project may never happen and secondly even if it does they may well be disappointed if a second run doesn't appear. If we or Rapido are convinced that at least another 500-1000 will sell (and we can set up an expressions of interest for backorders mechanism to gauge this) then they *might* get re-run, but we don't see that happening in the foreseeable future.

 

Cheers, Mike

 

Hi Mike,

 

Sorry if this has already been mentioned but can we still preorder a pendolino?

 

Best regards,

 

Jeremy

[Revolution Ben]

 

Hello all,

 

Just to add a further note of clarity (I hope!)

 

1) Orders for the Pendolino are still being taken via our website.

 

Link is in my signature (unless I have made a hash of it, in which case try Mike's signature.) One we have thoroughly tested the working sample and can say with certainty that the motors work, the couplers work and the lights all work we will be ready to authorise production. At that time we will close the order book and produce the models ordered then. At the moment we anticipate that date being March 31st 2016.

 

2) The glazing is being reworked.

 

3) Because the Kickstarter failed Rapido will own the tooling of this model, not Revolution Trains.

 

This was one of the points of plan B which we came up with to rescue the project. It was made clear at the time, but in essence Rapido are taking more of a risk, or at least they were at the time. This enabled us to go ahead, but it means that Rapido actually own the tooling for this model. We are happy because we are still getting our Pendolinos for bargain prices, and Rapido have agreed that they will not even consider re-running the tooling for at least two years from initial supply. So not before summer 2018. But my judgement is that a second run would be unlikely in that time frame for these reasons: First, with all the publicity and excitement we still haven't actually taken 1000 model orders. Experience tells us there is likely to be a late surge, but even so the demand is *not* that high. Second, everything I know about Rapido is that are more interested in "the next project" than in revisiting old models, and it may well be that if the 321 and our next wagon fly then we can keep supplying them with new projects to focus on.

 

One other point, if any production run takes place in the future Rapido have already stated openly that the prices would have to be significantly higher - around £100 more for the basic non-sound 9-car train.

 

Any other queries please feel free to ask.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[Revolution Ben]

 

Hello all,

 

Just to add a further note of clarity (I hope!)

 

1) Orders for the Pendolino are still being taken via our website.

 

Link is in my signature (unless I have made a hash of it, in which case try Mike's signature.) One we have thoroughly tested the working sample and can say with certainty that the motors work, the couplers work and the lights all work we will be ready to authorise production. At that time we will close the order book and produce the models ordered then. At the moment we anticipate that date being March 31st 2016.

 

2) The glazing is being reworked.

 

3) Because the Kickstarter failed Rapido will own the tooling of this model, not Revolution Trains.

 

This was one of the points of plan B which we came up with to rescue the project. It was made clear at the time, but in essence Rapido are taking more of a risk, or at least they were at the time. This enabled us to go ahead, but it means that Rapido actually own the tooling for this model. We are happy because we are still getting our Pendolinos for bargain prices, and Rapido have agreed that they will not even consider re-running the tooling for at least two years from initial supply. So not before summer 2018. But my judgement is that a second run would be unlikely in that time frame for these reasons: First, with all the publicity and excitement we still haven't actually taken 1000 model orders. Experience tells us there is likely to be a late surge, but even so the demand is *not* that high. Second, everything I know about Rapido is that are more interested in "the next project" than in revisiting old models, and it may well be that if the 321 and our next wagon fly then we can keep supplying them with new projects to focus on.

 

One other point, if any production run takes place in the future Rapido have already stated openly that the prices would have to be significantly higher - around £100 more for the basic non-sound 9-car train.

 

Any other queries please feel free to ask.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[njee20]

If it wasn't clear the first time Ben, it certainly was the second ;-)

[roundhouse]

If it wasn't clear the first time Ben, it certainly was the second ;-)

Err

 

What??

[njee20]

Err

 

What??

Do you not get Ben's entire post twice?!