Heljan announce Class 45 in OO

[jjb1970]

22 minutes ago, andythenorth said:

As we're going to stay wildly off-topic, here's my 2p.

 

• units are weird
• I have close to 100 locos in OO
• In units I have a 108, a 2EPB, a 156 and a 4TC
• I am completely irrational in how I value a unit. I'll happily pay £120 for a DC only loco, sometimes a couple in a month, but £360 for a 3 car unit seems outrageous (this is irrational, but there we go) 
• I am completely irrational in how I value a unit. I'll happily save up and buy a rake of 10 (unlit) MK2s at £40 each, but £360 for a motorised unit with lighting seems outrageous (this is irrational, but there we go) 
• I am completely irrational in how I value a unit. I'll buy 12 BAAs at £45 each, then £20 for loads, but £360 for a unit seems outrageous (this is irrational, but there we go)
• I am completely irrational in how I value a unit. I'll buy single car 122s, 128s and 419s happily at £120 each, but £360 for a 3-car 117 seems outrageous (this is irrational, but there we go)

You get the picture, could say more, but I won't continue :P 

 

This topic is so far away from Peaks 😝

 

And as for gaps in the market, nobody has a done a HTV / rebodied HTO yet.  Everybody modelling 1950s onwards needs at least 10 so there's your gap. 🤑

 

Irrational or not, I suspect your position is widely held.

[Calnefoxile]

On 11/08/2022 at 09:41, Holmesfeldian said:

In unrelated news, a representative from Bachmann was at Kidderminster diesel depot yesterday taking measurements and photographing every detail of D182 to improve their future class 45 and 46 models.

 

This might be of interest to those who consider Bachmann's model to be a more accurate 'shape'.

 

On 14/08/2022 at 03:55, Suzy Sulzer said:

Don't rule out a N gauge version.

 

I was just about to say the same thing.

 

It would make sense for Bachmann/Farish to look at the Peak considering that they have previously mentioned that the old tooling is damaged beyond repair, also having recently re-released the Class 40 it can't be that much of a step to the Peak.

 

Also it is one of the Loco's that hasn't been looked at for quite a while, I think the last release has got be nigh on 15 years ago.

 

Cheers

 

Neal.

['CHARD]

On 13/08/2022 at 01:05, stovepipe said:

But to cover all those 37 & 47 variations, acurately across the decades, requires a more extensive and expensive tooling suite. 

 

We tend to accept this as fact, and I can't quote the number of Class 37 variations off the top of my head, but Classes 44 - 46 have the following bewildering array of permutations even at first glance:

 

• headcode discs  
• box headcodes with doors (D11-15) 
• box headcodes (no doors) with and without ETH 
• split-central headcodes with and without ETH
• single-piece headcodes with and without ETH
• mis-matched nose styles (various)
• sealed-beam headlights with and without high-intensity headlights
• sealed-beam ends with/ without grab handles, brackets etc
• 45071 non-standard 1975 'prototype' style lights
• 44009/10 bodyside grille style
• triangular side grilles open or blanked
• boiler room side grilles open or blanked
• water filler points and body-side access rungs blanked
• battery-box cover styles
• nose grilles fitted with hinges and latches
• bogie lubrication points
• presence/ absence of inner sandboxes

Granted that a lot of this is achievable with alternative tool slides and combinations of added/ omitted detail parts, it's no greater a technical challenge than the 37s per se.  But factor-in the evident lesser popularity of the type, the availability of a competing model, and that tooling cost maybe starts to feel less secure.  

 

Said from the respectful perspective of one who has a prodigious appetite for D11-193 in 1968 condition.

 

[Phil Bullock]

4 minutes ago, 'CHARD said:

 

We tend to accept this as fact, and I can't quote the number of Class 37 variations off the top of my head, but Classes 44 - 46 have the following bewildering array of permutations even at first glance:

 

• headcode discs  
• box headcodes with doors (D11-15) 
• box headcodes (no doors) with and without ETH 
• split-central headcodes with and without ETH
• single-piece headcodes with and without ETH
• mis-matched nose styles (various)
• sealed-beam headlights with and without high-intensity headlights
• sealed-beam ends with/ without grab handles, brackets etc
• 45071 non-standard 1975 'prototype' style lights
• 44009/10 bodyside grille style
• triangular side grilles open or blanked
• boiler room side grilles open or blanked
• water filler points and body-side access rungs blanked
• battery-box cover styles
• nose grilles fitted with hinges and latches
• bogie lubrication points
• presence/ absence of inner sandboxes

Granted that a lot of this is achievable with alternative tool slides and combinations of added/ omitted detail parts, it's no greater a technical challenge than the 37s per se.  But factor-in the evident lesser popularity of the type, the availability of a competing model, and that tooling cost maybe starts to feel less secure.  

 

Said from the respectful perspective of one who has a prodigious appetite for D11-193 in 1968 condition.

 

Excellent! You can add bogie boiler access footsteps present/absent to the list too….not necessarily in sync with body side boiler access rungs .

 

Also additional footsteps , hand rails and OHLE flashes on nose end of D4

Edited August 15, 2022 by Phil Bullock
Additional info

[stovepipe]

Yes you certainly have a fair point, and I was considering some of those before posting. I do think though that a good many variations could be addressed relatively easily by having a selection of nose end slides, leaving the body side variations for the fitting of detail parts in some cases at least.

 

I like the transition era too, and the question of how far you go will always arise - there were two varieties of split box headcodes - leaving aside the ones with doors - for instance. But 193 versus 308 and 509 examples surely must mean less varieties when you also consider the respective life span?

 

 

[Phil Bullock]

3 hours ago, stovepipe said:

Yes you certainly have a fair point, and I was considering some of those before posting. I do think though that a good many variations could be addressed relatively easily by having a selection of nose end slides, leaving the body side variations for the fitting of detail parts in some cases at least.

 

I like the transition era too, and the question of how far you go will always arise - there were two varieties of split box headcodes - leaving aside the ones with doors - for instance. But 193 versus 308 and 509 examples surely must mean less varieties when you also consider the respective life span?

 

 

Might risk less front end shape issues if  the break for the nose ends was behind the cab door …. As per the prototype

[The Stationmaster]

On 15/08/2022 at 21:06, Phil Bullock said:

Might risk less front end shape issues if  the break for the nose ends was behind the cab door …. As per the prototype

Yes - BUT - if you do a complete unit based on that dividing point for each basic version you offer then your tooling costs will be greater and your suite of tools held in stock would be larger.  While slides aren't cheap I'd be surprised if using just a nose end slide with the rest of the front end/cab on a common tool wasn't by far the cheapest way to get there even tho' it probably isn't the visually ideal way.

['CHARD]

On 17/08/2022 at 13:18, The Stationmaster said:

Yes - BUT - if you do a complete unit based on that dividing point for each basic version you offer then your tooling costs will be greater and your suite of tools held in stock would be larger.  While slides aren't cheap I'd be surprised if using just a nose end slide with the rest of the front end/cab on a common tool wasn't by far the cheapest way to get there even tho' it probably isn't the visually ideal way.

 

I think Phil wants to model the erecting shop of Derby (Loco) Works 😏

Edited August 19, 2022 by 'CHARD

[adb968008]

On 13/08/2022 at 19:50, mdvle said:

 

The model you linked is a 3-car unit, not 4.

 

no its 4 car. Please check again

 

On 13/08/2022 at 19:50, mdvle said:

The comparison on the 104 is also under 100 units made vs 1452 made for the EN57 - the EN57 was apparently a much more common (and thus much more needed for Polish modelers) unit and that will reflect in the economics.

 

 

So your thought track is Polish railway modelling is greater than UK railway modelling, and in terms of disposable income to buy it ?

 

oh and “was”.. is “still”.. its not withdrawn yet, but it has been revised/overhauled several times, the version announced isnt a legacy version… aside however, many 104’s ran in 3’s, not singles, if your doing Blackpools, 3x2 car, or 2x3 and a 2 etc.. was very common… you need more than 1… EN57’s are mostly alone, 1 will do, and mostly 1 livery too, until recently,  will do for the country, for around 6+ decades.. its a pretty austere unit.

Pikos other PKP models have typically been batches of 500, fyi, its easy to work out which one you have, they are all serial numbered, something I think would be a good idea here in the UK.

 

I think your arguments arent stacking up… and you ignored the elephant in the room, with regards to the UK price of the same model. In the case of this unit, only 1 has been announced, though surely others will follow, but the economics of that unit compare against a half dozen class 104 versions announced.

Theres a reason why UK Units are more expensive, and I dont think Chinese tooling costs, production or even Chinese inflation is one of them… other Euro units exist to compare price against… a 2 car Dutch Hondekoop complete with track and controller can be had for under £120, compared to a 35 year old 2 car 110 for £145.

Edited August 19, 2022 by adb968008

[tinsley-toton]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

no its 4 car. Please check again

 

The picture of the prototype is a 3 car

 

[mdvle]

4 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

no its 4 car. Please check again

 

Really?

 

You linked to https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/Drive+trains/Electric+Railcars/Piko-51450/gb/modell_367126.html

 

The prototype image is clearly 3 cars - there are 6 passenger doors (2 per car) and 6 trucks/bogies - for those on small screens hovering over the image magnifies it or clicking on it brings up a larger image.

 

The German description later on that page Google translates the relevant portion to "The three-part multiple unit has always been used for local transport"

 

It's a model the the PKP EN57 which Wikipedia helpfully has a page on - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PKP_class_EN57 - which states they are "3 cars per trainset"

 

So I would suggest if you think you are buying a 4 car multiple unit you check that you are ordering the correct item.

 

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by mdvle

[adb968008]

Still doesnt change the economic comparison of it, even if its 3 car, its still cheaper…. £100 cheaper than EU.

 

vs 3 car Heljan 104 at £449

 

or this models UK price of £430* (vs £350 on the continent, inc taking taxes/shipping into account).

 

you dont seem to want/have answers for that, though, my guess is this is a own nation originated issue.

 

So may as well go back on topic and leave it there.

 

*edited to £430 as I incorrectly selected the Sound option

Edited August 21, 2022 by adb968008

[Legend]

I thought this was about class 45s . I think there is a separate thread for 104 

[Chilly]

What's the latest on these?

[brushman47544]

1 hour ago, Chilly said:

What's the latest on these?

 

From the Kernow MRC website 20th anniversary news:

 

"The OO gauge Class 45 ‘Peaks’ have been shipped from the Far East and should arrive in the UK in late-September or early-October."

Edited September 20, 2022 by brushman47544

[Colin_McLeod]

I received this e mail from Hattons today.  Alternative now pre ordered.

 

Hello

This is an email to let you know that the following item has been cancelled from production, and so we have cancelled it from your order – reference 5738109. If this was the only item on that order, then it will be cancelled, otherwise, the order will remain on our system with the other items.

Heljan 45107, which you can see at http://www.hattons.co.uk/stockdetail.aspx?SID=464300

We are unsure of the specific reason for the cancellation, and will try to keep its descriptive text updated to provide any information which the manufacturer releases.

We apologise for any inconvenience this has caused.

Regards

Hatton's Model Railways
17 Montague Road
Widnes
WA8 8FZ

[cctransuk]

Just been charged for my D13 by TMC.

 

Can't be long now.

 

CJI.

[PjKing1]

14 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

Just been charged for my D13 by TMC.

 

Can't be long now.

 

CJI.

Same here 

[Phil Bullock]

And me for my D15….

[younGGuns7]

7 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

And me for my D15….

Same here 👍

[PjKing1]

25 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

And me for my D15….

D11 for me Phil 

[Phil Bullock]

1 hour ago, PjKing1 said:

D11 for me Phil 

Already got D11 ! But with rebuilt nose ends. Saw D15 … and D13 …. On my first spotting trip 4.9.67…

[Patriot87003]

The Heljan newsletter linked below says the Class 45’s due to arrive to shops in the next 10 to 14 days …

 

https://www.Heljan.co.uk/post/peaks-in-production?utm_campaign=8d3e7e32-9421-4742-bef2-783d81caa952&utm_source=so&utm_medium=mail&cid=12d42152-d01c-4279-82d5-4ff1f6f5f758

 

[Gary H]

Its a no from me sadly.

I had hopes but...

[brushman47544]

5 minutes ago, Gary H said:

Its a no from me sadly.

I had hopes but...

A shame knowing Ben Jones’ efforts to get it right and why I’ve bought a Bachmann plated nose 45/0 rather than wait for a 45/1 from Heljan.