Heljan announce Class 45 in OO

[aureol40012]

15 hours ago, brushman47544 said:

A shame knowing Ben Jones’ efforts to get it right and why I’ve bought a Bachmann plated nose 45/0 rather than wait for a 45/1 from Heljan.

 

How do you mean?  Was Ben overruled?  Surely if he wants to get it right it is fairly easy to do so, this forum gave very clear feedback on the errors. 

[97406]

15 hours ago, Gary H said:

Its a no from me sadly.

I had hopes but...

 

Maybe the Heljan one is having a bad day and feeling down in the dumps! In all seriousness, it‘s a great shame the look just isn’t right, though. 

[dj_crisp]

This sadly is not a winner.

 

Really need a head on shot of the model but it looks to me as though the roof arc is wrong throwing the front windscreens off. If so I can't see that this can be refined.

 

 

[wombatofludham]

Mmm, strange, but the Heljan Facebook page is saying these models have now sold out at the warehouse, which suggests that retailers have either pre-sold a lot or expect them to be very popular, all of which suggests that the "errors" aren't denting sales or sales expectations.

[Ian Hargrave]

Taking on board what is posted about the “ face “ of the model which does seem at odds with the prototype,there is still something about it that still appeals. I’d be interested in perhaps opinions on the more positive aspects of Heljan’s Peak if anyone is bold enough to express them.

[96701]

I'll wait until I get my hands on one. I had ordered an unnumbered one from Hattons so that I could number it as 60 Lytham St Annes, but they cancelled it as not being produced. I have subsequently pre-ordered 64 Sherwood Forester which I might well still renumber.

[cctransuk]

I have, during the last couple of days, paid for Peak D13 at TMC ; my FELL is apparently en-route to me; and the Kerr Stuart 'Victory' from Planet Industrials is apparently imminent!

 

You wait years for a loco, and then three come along at once!

 

CJI.

Edited September 29, 2022 by cctransuk

[Hal Nail]

2 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

I’d be interested in perhaps opinions on the more positive aspects of Heljan’s Peak

 

Its got the right number of wheels, distributed evenly either side of the centre.

 

What we like about a model is entirely personal. For me, if a key aspect of a model looks wrong and spoils the character (speaking generally, not specifically this one), unless it is an easy fix, it woudn't make any difference to me if the rest was honed from gold.

 

And the converse is also true. If it basically looks right (which comes down to everyone's individual familiarity and observational skills) but a detail somewhere is wrong or missing, I'd either sort that out or ignore it.

 

 

Edited September 29, 2022 by Hal Nail

[Phil Bullock]

4 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

 

Its got the right number of wheels, distributed evenly either side of the centre.

 

What we like about a model is entirely personal. For me, if a key aspect of a model looks wrong and spoils the character (speaking generally, not specifically this one), unless it is an easy fix, it woudn't make any difference to me if the rest was honed from gold.

 

 

A major factor for me will be the split door nose ends on my D15 …. Gives a very characteristic look. Hopefully other possible issues won’t detract too much at 2ft viewing distance as she flies through Abbotswood and Norton….

[97406]

27 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

 

Its got the right number of wheels, distributed evenly either side of the centre.

 

What we like about a model is entirely personal. For me, if a key aspect of a model looks wrong and spoils the character (speaking generally, not specifically this one), unless it is an easy fix, it woudn't make any difference to me if the rest was honed from gold.

 

And the converse is also true. If it basically looks right (which comes down to everyone's individual familiarity and observational skills) but a detail somewhere is wrong or missing, I'd either sort that out or ignore it.

 

 

When one only has a small layout, the locos must look right close up. I’m quite happy to amend the details where I can, the Hornby Class 50 being an example, but the 45 looks insurmountable, and modifying a Bachmann one will be a lot easier.  Having said that, the layout’s about to get a little bit bigger with a new section underway.

 

[Ian Hargrave]

1 hour ago, Phil Bullock said:

A major factor for me will be the split door nose ends on my D15 …. Gives a very characteristic look. Hopefully other possible issues won’t detract too much at 2ft viewing distance as she flies through Abbotswood and Norton….

My first acquaintance with the Peak-With-Doors was at St.Pancras in late April 1961 . Holbeck’s D12 already with smashed glass to one indicator box and none too clean either. Yellow aprons came next year. I had to wait until September for a first trip behind one …it being toYork on the Birmingham-Newcastle behind D75 (17A)which was joined at  the front by D40 (82A) from Sheffield Midland.  Bath Road received its quota in midsummer of that year .

[Covkid]

6 hours ago, 97406 said:

When one only has a small layout, the locos must look right close up. I’m quite happy to amend the details where I can, the Hornby Class 50 being an example, but the 45 looks insurmountable, and modifying a Bachmann one will be a lot easier.  Having said that, the layout’s about to get a little bit bigger with a new section underway.

 

 

Well that is two problem models, the windscreens on the class 50, irrespective of the manufacturer are wrongly shaped. 

 

IMHO My father got the most accurate shape of the class 50 windscreens from the cast whitemetal lumps in an MTK box, and I still have that.  The unpainted cabs look very favourable alongside the Hornby and Lima OO shells, but also against both 2mm and 7mm RTR versions in my opinion. 

 

The Heljan peak has the "shoulder" way too high up the bodyshell.  If you look at a class 45 towards each end you will find the cab doors have an inwards roll for the top three or four inches.  This flows through from the middle of the loco and follows right through to the windscreens at the cab ends.  If you look at the Heljan model the entire footplate doors are flat bottom to top, and the "shoulder" starts above - way too high, IMHO the Bachmann moudling is infinitely more accurate and remains my choice.     

[97406]

8 hours ago, Covkid said:

 

Well that is two problem models, the windscreens on the class 50, irrespective of the manufacturer are wrongly shaped. 

 

IMHO My father got the most accurate shape of the class 50 windscreens from the cast whitemetal lumps in an MTK box, and I still have that.  The unpainted cabs look very favourable alongside the Hornby and Lima OO shells, but also against both 2mm and 7mm RTR versions in my opinion. 

 

The Heljan peak has the "shoulder" way too high up the bodyshell.  If you look at a class 45 towards each end you will find the cab doors have an inwards roll for the top three or four inches.  This flows through from the middle of the loco and follows right through to the windscreens at the cab ends.  If you look at the Heljan model the entire footplate doors are flat bottom to top, and the "shoulder" starts above - way too high, IMHO the Bachmann moudling is infinitely more accurate and remains my choice.     

 

Agreed. The current Bachmann 45 has the shape pretty much spot on, with the stance looking right. I’m after 45106 in its final green livery, but of course the windscreens are outlined in white/silver/light grey so making the shape stand out more, so there will be a future workbench project to convert a 45/0 into 107.

 

To be fair the Heljan one does look like a 45, but then my eye gets drawn to the differences, and once seen they can’t be unseen.

Edited September 30, 2022 by 97406

[WILLIAM]

3 hours ago, 97406 said:

 

I’m after 45107 in its final green livery,

 

45106? 🙂

[97406]

6 minutes ago, WILLIAM said:

45106? 🙂

Yes, duly corrected. Damn my sausage fingers!

[MikeParkin65]

1 hour ago, The Black Prince said:

 

Also can’t understand why the wheels are left bare metal? I guess this is not done in fear of conductive issues or something but given how many these have they don’t help the aesthetic. 

Agree - seems to becoming more common too. Some manufacturers ‘chemically blacken’ the wheels - in my opinion it doesn’t work and certainly isn’t as convincing as a painted wheel. 
 

Regarding the Heljan 45 the jury is out for me at the moment, as a whole it’s very well detailed and finished but I agree an error has been made with the transition from body side to roof. Question is can I live with this in the context of the layout. On balance I probably can. 

[LNERandBR]

Personally, I'd prefer to wait until I have a phisical model to look at then use online photos.

 

The images shown are taken at different angles. One looking down at the model whilst the other is looking up at the prototype. That changes the perspective and makes straight comparisons difficult.

 

I feel it's a case of paying your money and making your choice here.

[Ian Hargrave]

4 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Agree - seems to becoming more common too. Some manufacturers ‘chemically blacken’ the wheels - in my opinion it doesn’t work and certainly isn’t as convincing as a painted wheel. 
 

Regarding the Heljan 45 the jury is out for me at the moment, as a whole it’s very well detailed and finished but I agree an error has been made with the transition from body side to roof. Question is can I live with this in the context of the layout. On balance I probably can. 

 

6 minutes ago, LNERandBR said:

Personally, I'd prefer to wait until I have a phisical model to look at then use online photos.

 

The images shown are taken at different angles. One looking down at the model whilst the other is looking up at the prototype. That changes the perspective and makes straight comparisons difficult.

 

I feel it's a case of paying your money and making your choice here.

Which is why yesterday I posed the question of positive points on this model .And unsurprisingly received a generally non committal response. That said,I noticed that a few worthy luminaries of this forum have thrown their hats into the ring and ordered one….or two. So these two posts are very much aligned with my own response to the images I’ve viewed here and elsewhere online.There’s something about it that appeals despite the shortcomings ….but before committing,I need to see one and then decide. TMC are a big player here and supplies of their special edition Peaks …..D11-D15 with interconnecting doors….are imminent.I note with satisfaction that they also have a presence at GETS in Milton Keynes on October 8/9 .Thus a trip down the M1 for an up close look at one might be worth it to settle the matter.No trains due to strike action unfortunately 

[adb968008]

On 29/09/2022 at 14:32, Ian Hargrave said:

Taking on board what is posted about the “ face “ of the model which does seem at odds with the prototype,there is still something about it that still appeals. I’d be interested in perhaps opinions on the more positive aspects of Heljan’s Peak if anyone is bold enough to express them.

I like the pony wheel representation, i’m intrigued to see how it handles curves in use, as short 8 wheel base.

However all the previous renditions of the 45 are a moulded rendition of the axle, where as this one is an extension of the wheel and thus rotates.

The pipe and lifting detail between the body and bogie is pretty good, as are the handrails.

The real selling point of this model is that it is a 45/1, weve never had one before with the right roof.

 

looking at the closeups of the blue ones, there seems to be a lot of black lining around the windows, i’m hoping its more subtle, or gone, on the production ones.

 

ive always felt the 45 is an under loved class, and from a modelling perspective its lots of tooling variations for very few liveries. Personally once ive a couple, i’m done. The 45 never seemed to be a huge seller for Mainline or Replica and more recently after the starvation of the Model Zone 45.. the 5 that followed have stagnated too. I just dont think 45’s are that popular.

 

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by adb968008

[Holmesfeldian]

2 hours ago, LNERandBR said:

Personally, I'd prefer to wait until I have a phisical model to look at then use online photos.

 

The images shown are taken at different angles. One looking down at the model whilst the other is looking up at the prototype. That changes the perspective and makes straight comparisons difficult.

 

I feel it's a case of paying your money and making your choice here.

 

Same here - I'm very keen on a TMC special edition D15 but the nose doors look very low relief in the sample photos and I'd like to see one in the wild (hopefully GETS or Warley) before taking the plunge.

[Phil Bullock]

26 minutes ago, Holmesfeldian said:

 

Same here - I'm very keen on a TMC special edition D15 but the nose doors look very low relief in the sample photos and I'd like to see one in the wild (hopefully GETS or Warley) before taking the plunge.

A thin black wash will more than likely help if there is an issue with the nose doors…. Always my first weathering step.

[GordonC]

25 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I like the pony wheel representation, i’m intrigued to see how it handles curves in use, as short 8 wheel base.

However all the previous renditions of the 45 are a moulded rendition of the axle, where as this one is an extension of the wheel and thus rotates.

The pipe and lifting detail between the body and bogie is pretty good, as are the handrails.

The real selling point of this model is that it is a 45/1, weve never had one before with the right roof.

 

looking at the closeups of the blue ones, there seems to be a lot of black lining around the windows, i’m hoping its more subtle, or gone, on the production ones.

 

ive always felt the 45 is an under loved class, and from a modelling perspective its lots of tooling variations for very few liveries. Personally once ive a couple, i’m done. The 45 never seemed to be a huge seller for Mainline or Replica and more recently after the starvation of the Model Zone 45.. the 5 that followed have stagnated too. I just dont think 45’s are that popular.

 

 

 

Is there possibly a couple of factors against them in terms of sales in that they didn't get liveries beyond BR Blue unlike their far more colourful cousins the 47s? While its easy to get lots of 47s in completely different liveries, it'll be less likely for people to buy the same numbers of 45s all in BR Green or Blue? Could their wheel arrangement possibly go against them? I get the impression Class 40s are far more popular for bashers than they are for modellers too (but having said that we rarely seem to get many Class 40 models on the shelves to actually buy - cant buy whats not there!)

[97406]

45 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

Is there possibly a couple of factors against them in terms of sales in that they didn't get liveries beyond BR Blue unlike their far more colourful cousins the 47s? While its easy to get lots of 47s in completely different liveries, it'll be less likely for people to buy the same numbers of 45s all in BR Green or Blue? Could their wheel arrangement possibly go against them? I get the impression Class 40s are far more popular for bashers than they are for modellers too (but having said that we rarely seem to get many Class 40 models on the shelves to actually buy - cant buy whats not there!)

Yes, 45s always seemed to be the poorer cousins of the 40s at the time, and I was disappointed that the latter were withdrawn earlier in the mid eighties. However I do look back on the Peaks quite warmly, and I am missing a 45/1 in my fleet, as well as a 44 and 46. The RTC 46 would be great, though looking at the prices on Ebay, it will have to be a respray job.

Edited September 30, 2022 by 97406

[Magna Junction]

10 hours ago, The Black Prince said:

Amazes me we have made it 2022 with all of our 3D scanning / laser tech and 11 surviving examples (admittedly some in better condition than others) and basic errors like this are made?

 

Also can’t understand why the wheels are left bare metal? I guess this is not done in fear of conductive issues or something but given how many these have they don’t help the aesthetic. 

Don't think Heljan would have scanned a real class 45 for the 00 gauge version as it's a scaled down CAD/tooling of there 0 gauge peak which has the same errors, don't think it would have looked good to have corrected the errors on the 00 version and have the 0 gauge version incorrect, Heljan have been known to re-visit locos a few years down the line and give them a re-tool so you never know.

 

[97406]

7 minutes ago, Magna Junction said:

Don't think Heljan would have scanned a real class 45 for the 00 gauge version as it's a scaled down CAD/tooling of there 0 gauge peak which has the same errors, don't think it would have looked good to have corrected the errors on the 00 version and have the 0 gauge version incorrect, Heljan have been known to re-visit locos a few years down the line and give them a re-tool so you never know.

 

Hopefully Ben's taking all this on board and a similar job to the 86 will emerge in a few years' time.