Model Rail / Heljan Class 11 0-6-0DE

[meatloaf]

Well i have to say that mine runs better than ever now and rarely stalls on pointwork. 

 

The lights are a nice touch.

 

Im considering getting another!

 

Is the TXS decoder a definate no no?

[PenrithBeacon]

Does anyone know the axle diameter please? AGW does a 3'-11" wheel for P4/EM and I'm wondering if it might fit.

[JSpencer]

On 20/02/2024 at 23:41, meatloaf said:

Is the TXS decoder a definate no no?

 

I don't think I saw any argument against one yet.

[NXEA!]

1 hour ago, JSpencer said:

 

I don't think I saw any argument against one yet.

5Dublo2’s post on 13th Feb suggests a TXS chip is too long and too wide without surgery. 

[JSpencer]

25 minutes ago, NXEA! said:

5Dublo2’s post on 13th Feb suggests a TXS chip is too long and too wide without surgery. 

 

Ah ok. Maybe a future generation of chips by the time the class 12 appears.

[D3489gibson]

Tested out A.D878 last night on the clubs test track. Fully fitted with the Roads and Rails supplied sound set and stay alive. Only modifications I needed to do was remove a small bit of the shrink wrap at the base of the SA where the wires come out to allow it to sit flush at the front of the motor, with the capacitor at 90* along the front of the PCB infront of the speaker. All sits together nicely. Running is superb now so it may make a brief jaunt to Tamworth for the Statfold show to see how it handles Beckwick's multiple crossovers and paintwork! 

 

Nathan

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Converting one to a proper gauge!;

 

 

Mike.

[Albie the plumber]

16 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Converting one to a proper gauge!;

 

 

Mike.

Great video but not for the faint hearted ! 

[5Dublo2]

Lid off to show Hornby TXS (non-fit) and LOKSOUND 5 Micro fitting (with Train-o-Matic stay alive also added

Hornby HM7000 Next 18 TXS Decoder (image with white decoder)

- The decoder is just resting in place as it does not fit
- On the right is the black plastic speaker enclosure that causes a problem lengthwise as the decoder needs to be more to the right (more than the slight gap in the image provides) in order to clip into the Next 18 socket . However there is space off-shot to the right of this (see the image showing the Loksound with stay alive fit)  and as the speaker appears to use trailing wires as connections (and not a direct PCB connection) it probably would not be too hard to be move it along to solve the length issue (or completely remove it and use the speaker supplied with the Hornby decoder instead)
- The white connector socket for the wheel contact wires, near the bottom bottom left causes the width problem - I suspect this could be removed and then the wires soldered to whatever the socket connects to on the board itself

- the space to the left of the decoder (with  two square contact pads) is how the cab lights connect as flexible sprung contacts attached to the body press on these. (so you can't use this area even though it appears to have space)
- if looking at fitting the HM7070 stay alive I think it will fit above the motor contacts (where the capacitor is in the image showing the Loksound with stay alive fit)

LOKSOUND 5 Micro decoder - remaining 2 images 
- 1st image shows decoder fitted making it a little clearer why the Hornby decoder does not fit (without modification)

- 2nd image shows Stay Alive also fitted

 

To fit the stay alive:
- The solid red and white filled, red arrows indicate the lugs that release the Loco PCB to allow it to be slid out of the clip that is located where the orange arrow points to

- The Loco PCB is no longer clipped at the orange arrow as by leaving it unclipped it provides enough space underneath the  Loco PCB for the Stay Alive PCB to be placed (solid blue arrow). The contacts for the cab lights still work with the Loco PCB in this position
- The Stay Alive Capacitor is located above the motor contacts at the left end (hollow blue arrow) note that the capacitor has been removed fromn the Stay Alive PCB and then reconnected to it with trailing wires


 

Edited February 24 by 5Dublo2

[PenrithBeacon]

On 23/02/2024 at 17:01, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Converting one to a proper gauge!;

 

 

Mike.

Thanks for video and I have liked and subscribed. It sort of answers the question I posed earlier in that, yes it is possible to convert to EM/P4 but only if you have a lathe. It is clear from the video that the axles are not 1/8" or 3mm and so the AGW 3'-11" wheels will not do.

Thanks for that, I won't be buying the model. but my best wishes to those who do.

[Enterprisingwestern]

9 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said:

Thanks for video and I have liked and subscribed. It sort of answers the question I posed earlier in that, yes it is possible to convert to EM/P4 but only if you have a lathe. It is clear from the video that the axles are not 1/8" or 3mm and so the AGW 3'-11" wheels will not do.

Thanks for that, I won't be buying the model. but my best wishes to those who do.

 

It does help when the converter/convertee was a clockmaker with access to such sumptuous machinery!

 

Mike.

[PenrithBeacon]

On 21/02/2024 at 17:30, PenrithBeacon said:

Does anyone know the axle diameter please? AGW does a 3'-11" wheel for P4/EM and I'm wondering if it might fit.

It turns out the the axles on Heljan's model are 2mm diameter so conversion to EM/P4 using AGW wheels is pretty much out. 

[pete_mcfarlane]

Presumably you can use tender wheels, which is my eventual (i.e. I ordered the wheels from Ultrascale) plan, or use those 1/8" to 2mm reducing bushes that Branchlines sell with a set of Gibson loco wheels. 

 

Consensus at the local S4 group is that the frames *might* need moving out a tiny bit to fit P4 wheels. 

[PenrithBeacon]

20 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

Presumably you can use tender wheels, which is my eventual (i.e. I ordered the wheels from Ultrascale) plan, or use those 1/8" to 2mm reducing bushes that Branchlines sell with a set of Gibson loco wheels. 

 

Consensus at the local S4 group is that the frames *might* need moving out a tiny bit to fit P4 wheels. 

Perhaps these AGW wheels '4847NW 3' 11" 15.6mm 12 spoke Plain' will do.

I've edited this post to reflect a change of view I've had about this conversion.

Looking at the S4 Manual the overall width of P4 wheelsets (back-to-back plus twice the tyre width) should give you 19.75mm max. 'Kier Hardy' shows in his YouTube film that the space between the frames is 21.26mm which should give enough space to fit P4 wheel sets. The weight diagrams for Classes 08/09/10/11 have been published in 'A Pictorial Record Of The Diesel Shunter' (Colin Marsden/OPC), the wheel spacing is the same for all four and both Brassmasters and Bill Bedford do nice coupling rods for them.

Still not convince about actually buying this model, I've got so many Bachmann 08/09 in stock. Annoying.

Edited February 29 by PenrithBeacon
Grammar

[pete55]

You can actually convert this Class 11 to EM by simply moving the Heljan wheels out to EM back to back, and they run perfectly well.......I've done it!

You will have to move the side frames out, but that is not a problem. Remove the brake sand bins from the outside of the side frames, they just need prizing off as they have two pins holding them on. Under each of them is a screw. Undo the four screws, and the frames will lift off, although the front footsteps will probably need removing and moving out a touch too.

[Zunnan]

I couldn’t resist this one, being a lifelong Saltley resident. I’m sorely tempted to add its stablemate 7128, especially with photos existing of the two together bearing BRITISH RAILWAYS on 7130M (12043) and LMS on 7128

 

Edited March 5 by Zunnan

[phil gollin]

.

 

Now that most of the initial fuss over the Class 11 release is over is it the right time to ask whether Model Rail will go ahead with the Southern Class 12s, and if so, when ordering may be opened ?

 

I hope they do go ahead.

 

.

[No Decorum]

2 hours ago, phil gollin said:

.

 

Now that most of the initial fuss over the Class 11 release is over is it the right time to ask whether Model Rail will go ahead with the Southern Class 12s, and if so, when ordering may be opened ?

 

I hope they do go ahead.

 

.

The project certainly seems to be going ahead with expected delivery in late 2024 but no word yet on when the order book will open. Scroll down.

https://www.modelrailoffers.co.uk/pg/167/Project-Class-11-12

 

 

[VIA185]

3 hours ago, phil gollin said:

.

 

Now that most of the initial fuss over the Class 11 release is over is it the right time to ask whether Model Rail will go ahead with the Southern Class 12s, and if so, when ordering may be opened ?

 

I hope they do go ahead.

 

.

Yes, but there are other projects ahead of it. See

https://www.modelrailoffers.co.uk/pg/167/Project-Class-11-12

(CJL)

[amdaley]

What's the most suitable sound decoder with stay alive to fit to this model ?

[Phil Bullock]

15 hours ago, Zunnan said:

I couldn’t resist this one, being a lifelong Saltley resident. I’m sorely tempted to add its stablemate 7128, especially with photos existing of the two together bearing BRITISH RAILWAYS on 7130M (12043) and LMS on 7128

 

Remember going to Saltley early 68 …. A lot of the early members of the class there were waiting for a tow to Cashmores on their last journey…. 

[Izzy]

On 28/02/2024 at 14:54, PenrithBeacon said:

ooking at the S4 Manual the overall width of P4 wheelsets (back-to-back plus twice the tyre width) should give you 19.75mm max. 'Kier Hardy' shows in his YouTube film that the space between the frames is 21.26mm which should give enough space to fit P4 wheel sets.

 

Forgive me but I'm afraid I believe the 19.75mm figure is wrong. I have always generally gone with the minimum 22mm needed clearance figure. This is based around the 17.67mm btb plus 4mm i.e. two nominal wheel widths at 2mm, which AGW/Sharman/Ultrascale usually are, so 21.67mm. You can reduce wheel width to 1.8mm according to the published standards and I had to do this with my Hornby J15 conversion, which then gives 21.27mm, but again you need a lathe to do this...... and it would still be a very tight fit .......      It seems you can move the sideframes out to overcome this issue, but I'm wondering how this would impact the outside crank clearance. Move the cranks out and you could have platform clouting issues ....... it's all good fun....

 

Bob

[meatloaf]

1 hour ago, amdaley said:

What's the most suitable sound decoder with stay alive to fit to this model ?

Roads and Rails do a loksound decoder plus stay alive kit

[amdaley]

It's a pity a model with pre installed sound wasn't available.

[Zunnan]

2 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

Remember going to Saltley early 68 …. A lot of the early members of the class there were waiting for a tow to Cashmores on their last journey…. 

 

According to my uncles spotting notes, two were transferred away 7126 and 7127 (12039 and 12040) in 66 but broken at Great Bridge during late 69/early 70. The rest of the original Saltley LMS allocation languished there until August 68 with 7128 (12041) to Swindon and 7129 (12042) to Newport, 7130 (12043) and 7131 (12044) went to Great Bridge to be scrapped during 69.