Ruston & Hornsby 0-6-0DE announced in OO by Kernow, Heljan & Model Rail.

[cctransuk]

5 hours ago, bubbles2 said:

My BR blue Model Rail one arrived this morning, a loverly model all parts in place although the rear lamp irons are fixed in a rather droopy position, there is plenty of oil on the underside of the loco and the wrapping, sadly although running smoothly on Peco code 100, SMP code 75 and my handmade code 75 point work it has a pronounced wobble when on the move. So I suppose it will have to go back for a replacement, this may be acceptable for a £30 train set toy but certainly not acceptable for a locomotive costing over £150.

 

 

Less of a wobble, more of a waddle!

 

I'm pretty sure that this is a function of the short wheelbase, and would have been evident, to some extent, on the prototype.

 

I built one from an Impetus kit and it, too, waddles. You could try opening-out the back-to-backs - but not to the extent that causes problems at turnouts.

 

Also - a few wagons attached to the loco should reduce the waddling tendency.

 

John Isherwood.

[MikeParkin65]

2 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Less of a wobble, more of a waddle!

 

I'm pretty sure that this is a function of the short wheelbase, and would have been evident, to some extent, on the prototype.

 

I built one from an Impetus kit and it, too, waddles. You could try opening-out the back-to-backs - but not to the extent that causes problems at turnouts.

 

Also - a few wagons attached to the loco should reduce the waddling tendency.

 

John Isherwood.

My Bachmann 03 doesn’t waddle anything like @bubbles2 example. £75 from EBay. 

[bubbles2]

10 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Less of a wobble, more of a waddle!

 

I'm pretty sure that this is a function of the short wheelbase, and would have been evident, to some extent, on the prototype.

 

I built one from an Impetus kit and it, too, waddles. You could try opening-out the back-to-backs - but not to the extent that causes problems at turnouts.

 

Also - a few wagons attached to the loco should reduce the waddling tendency.

 

John Isherwood.

Thank you for your reply and suggestions John, I have checked the back-to-backs and they appear to be spot on, I too have a Bachmann 03 and with a similar wheel base and that runs straight as a die, although that has a jack shaft of cause which may help. Also have tried hanging 5 carflats (the only stock I have still with tension lock couplings) loaded with 17 Oxford diecast cars on board it has no trouble hauling them but sadly it still waddles. 
 

I tend to think the problem is likely to be either the wheels are not true on the axles or the quartering is not correct.

 

Does anyone have one that runs straight without a waddle or a wobble or do they all do that? Am I being too fussy? Perhaps I should just accept it, please let me know what you think.

 

Have really been look forward to these arriving and would be up for a couple more in different liveries if they ran well but at the moment this one leaves me feeling somewhat disappointed even though it is a loverly looking model.

Edited April 2, 2023 by bubbles2

[No Decorum]

1 hour ago, bubbles2 said:

Thank you for your reply and suggestions John, I have checked the back-to-backs and they appear to be spot on, I too have a Bachmann 03 and with a similar wheel base and that runs straight as a die, although that has a jack shaft of cause which may help. Also have tried hanging 5 carflats (the only stock I have still with tension lock couplings) loaded with 17 Oxford diecast cars on board it has no trouble hauling them but sadly it still waddles. 
 

I tend to think the problem is likely to be either the wheels are not true on the axles or the quartering is not correct.

 

Does anyone have one that runs straight without a waddle or a wobble or do they all do that? Am I being too fussy? Perhaps I should just accept it, please let me know what you think.

 

Have really been look forward to these arriving and would be up for a couple more in different liveries if they ran well but at the moment this one leaves me feeling somewhat disappointed even though it is a loverly looking model.

My replacement is due tomorrow (the returned model wouldn’t move at all) so I cannot comment on its waddling. I have a fair number of short wheelbase models, though, and, whilst some waddle a little, none of them are as bad as yours. It’s only my opinion but I’d say that your model is unacceptable.

[AY Mod]

2 hours ago, bubbles2 said:

Perhaps I should just accept it, please let me know what you think.

 

I certainly wouldn't as it doesn't look readily fixable. As the nearest comparison it is far inferior to an 07 from the same stable although evidently a different factory. The wheels look like they are from the 1980s.

[No Decorum]

Kernow is pretty good. A reply-paid label can be sent for you to print and stick on the parcel or, if you haven’t a printer, I think it can be printed at a Post Office. Enclose a note explaining the fault.

[MidlandRed]

9 hours ago, bubbles2 said:

Thank you for your reply and suggestions John, I have checked the back-to-backs and they appear to be spot on, I too have a Bachmann 03 and with a similar wheel base and that runs straight as a die, although that has a jack shaft of cause which may help. Also have tried hanging 5 carflats (the only stock I have still with tension lock couplings) loaded with 17 Oxford diecast cars on board it has no trouble hauling them but sadly it still waddles. 
 

I tend to think the problem is likely to be either the wheels are not true on the axles or the quartering is not correct.

 

Does anyone have one that runs straight without a waddle or a wobble or do they all do that? Am I being too fussy? Perhaps I should just accept it, please let me know what you think.

 

Have really been look forward to these arriving and would be up for a couple more in different liveries if they ran well but at the moment this one leaves me feeling somewhat disappointed even though it is a loverly looking model.

Mine also has a wobble/waddle. On checking the free play in the wheel sets, from the front, numbers one and two are quite firm in terms of play in the side to side movement whilst the third (nearest the back) has much more play - notably the wobble is at the rear. I think this may be to do with making the loco freely operable over tight radii curves.

 

The two Bachmann 03s I bought used similarly had a slight wobble and also had differences in the sideways play in the wheel sets - I tightened slightly the screws on the coupling rod on the one with the most play and it improved it.

 

The PWM has hex screws on the coupling rods so I haven’t tried that on the one with the most play. 
 

It’s a really nice model with one of two niggles - great for a WR pre TOPS modeller! 

Edited April 2, 2023 by MidlandRed

[Michael Hodgson]

I always understood the PWM stood for Permanent Way Machine, but is it known why these were allocated in the 650 range - were there earlier departmental locos or perhaps other equipment types such as cranes with lower numbers?

[cctransuk]

2 hours ago, MidlandRed said:

Mine also has a wobble/waddle. On checking the free play in the wheel sets, from the front, numbers one and two are quite firm in terms of play in the side to side movement whilst the third (nearest the back) has much more play - notably the wobble is at the rear. I think this may be to do with making the loco freely operable over tight radii curves.

 

The two Bachmann 03s I bought used similarly had a slight wobble and also had differences in the sideways play in the wheel sets - I tightened slightly the screws on the coupling rod on the one with the most play and it improved it.

 

The PWM has hex screws on the coupling rods so I haven’t tried that on the one with the most play. 
 

It’s a really nice model with one of two niggles - great for a WR pre TOPS modeller! 

 

Thinking about it, the Heljan D9500 had a terrible waddle, due to excessive axle side play.

 

I cured mine by inserting C-clips over the axles, between the wheels and the frames, to reduce the side play.

 

John Isherwood.

[Phil Bullock]

10 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Thinking about it, the Heljan D9500 had a terrible waddle, due to excessive axle side play.

 

I cured mine by inserting C-clips over the axles, between the wheels and the frames, to reduce the side play.

 

John Isherwood.

Fitting Brassmasters coupling rods helps reduce the Class 14 waddle and improves its appearance. Perhaps something similar might help the Ruston? 

[Roy Langridge]

3 hours ago, MidlandRed said:

Mine also has a wobble/waddle. On checking the free play in the wheel sets, from the front, numbers one and two are quite firm in terms of play in the side to side movement whilst the third (nearest the back) has much more play - notably the wobble is at the rear. I think this may be to do with making the loco freely operable over tight radii curves.

 

The two Bachmann 03s I bought used similarly had a slight wobble and also had differences in the sideways play in the wheel sets - I tightened slightly the screws on the coupling rod on the one with the most play and it improved it.

 

The PWM has hex screws on the coupling rods so I haven’t tried that on the one with the most play. 
 

It’s a really nice model with one of two niggles - great for a WR pre TOPS modeller! 

There is no excuse for so much side-play on such a short wheelbase model. There are plenty of models that have a similar length wheelbase that navigate tight radius turns without such a waddle. 
 

As for nice model, you are right and I looked forward to this one, but not with the issues it has at its asking price. 
 

Roy

[bazil31]

Out of the ones I have only one has the slightest of wobbles but no where near as bad as your one has.

I would return it and see if they have a replacement.

Hopefully there is only a few rouge ones out there and the majority run well as I am really pleased with mine.

 

Baz

[adb968008]

The front wheel (under the white handle)  with the crank on, is not a hex screw.

It also has a lot of slop in it.

 

it is a simple push fit.

 

 

It may be worth lifting it out and resetting in on the wheel to see if it tightens the quartering of that wheel.

That said it is very fragile, so under warranty it may be better to let them fix it, if your unsure.

 

Edited April 2, 2023 by adb968008

[bubbles2]

I also had a similar issue with my Heljan class 14 D9500 and in a similar vain to John I fitted split fibre washers to the axles to overcome the waddle so having been remaindered of this I fitted split fibre washers to the axles of the DE650, all three of my axles have the same amount of slop, the washers I fitted are 0.46mm thick, I started with 1 on each axle and ended up with 3 on each axle, 2 on 1 side and 1 on the other, this helped but has not reduced the waddle enough to stop me sending it back, I remain convinced it is an issue with the quartering or 1 or more of the wheels out of true on the axle.

[gpplumy]

a quick run through of my model - MR-405B Heljan Ruston 165DE PWM Diesel - 97 652 - BR Yellow

 

running performance - seems alright, tiniest of wobbles , especially compared to some of the videos

 

 

Bodywork - Daylight ! ok maybe not that bad but i could definetly see a gap between the body and the chassis and the running board, and the running board slighly warped. 

i took the advice , removed the body using the 2 nose cone screws (no glue present), trimmed back the plastic on the running board and refitted, after a day of being sat on the layout in the sun, the running board and bonnets now seem to fit better and the running board has straightened out, 
 

 

Modifications - mine was becoming and industrial and i wanted to add some paintwork, and remove some components and decals.

the horn removed fairly easily when the body was off. took a little prising but it came

 

Decals, Jesus, i, not sure how they are applied, but yellow paint started to come away before the decals, i had to scrape them with a scalpel in the end, and then with a cut cocktail stick and thinners to get them off . without lifting to much paint,

some paint added to the steps and bobs-your-uncle, shes complete. happy with her yellow sisters 

 

[No Decorum]

On 30/03/2023 at 20:19, NickBrad said:

Mine is on it's way back to Rails, they've confirmed that they have assigned a new one to me and that it will be checked over for defects before shipping. I cannot fault their service thus far, it's important to remember that the fault lies with the factory Heljan are using rather than the retailers.

Absolutely. Kernow had a replacement sent to the despatch room on the same day as my faulty one was received. It arrived yesterday. There is a lot to be said for it, even if many of the criticisms are valid. There is a lot of separately applied detail and it runs well. There is a slight waddle but nothing I find unacceptable. It’s very controllable and smooth and has no trouble negotiating points. Infuriatingly, though, a rear sandbox and sand pipe are missing with no sign of them in the box. The girder at the bottom of the front buffer beam has been glued on crookedly but is barely noticeable. (The rear one was broken off on my original model.)

 

The cab light functions in a most curious fashion, apart from being too bright (has Modelu produced a driver with sunglasses?) On DC, apply the power and the light comes on. Switch it off with the wand and reduce the power and the light comes on again briefly before power turns off completely. Stop to reverse direction and the light comes on again. Even more disconcertingly, at shunting speed, the light turns on again randomly. The instructions say that the light can be controlled by the wand or a decoder, so the problem might not occur on DCC. Is this a universal fault or specific to my model?

[No Decorum]

On 24/03/2023 at 02:13, Roy Langridge said:

Nearly every photo I have seen of these during development shows a variable gap between the body and running-plate as if one of the two isn’t straight, something that has made me reluctant to order.

 

The photos on Kernow’s website show this clearly, but I do not know if they are of production models or not. For example:

Can someone who has received a production model post some photos or comment please?

Many thanks,

 

Roy
 

My replacement model has the gap but it’s not so obvious on the dark green.

[No Decorum]

On 29/03/2023 at 17:19, bubbles2 said:

One thing I’ve noticed that Heljan seem to have left off the models is the 45 degree plate above each buffer on both the front and rear buffer beams, not sure what the purpose of these was but they seem to have been fitted throughout the lives of the locos.

These are included in the accessory pack. They are very obvious in the large frontal drawing on the front of the instructions. Another clue to their orientation appears in the sideways drawing on the Model Rail box.

[Darius43]

Arrived today 😀

 

 

 

 

 

Haven't tried the waddle test yet…

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, Darius43 said:

Arrived today 😀

 

 

 

 

 

Haven't tried the waddle test yet…

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

Those windows need cleaning before the next shift.

 

CJI.

[Halvarras]

16 hours ago, Darius43 said:

Arrived today 😀

 

 

 

 

 

Haven't tried the waddle test yet…

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

Nice - I used to see the real one in Taunton's Fairwater Yard on spotting trips to Bristol in the late 60s/early 70s.

However although I could excuse one I'm going to pass.

[NickBrad]

On 04/04/2023 at 10:40, No Decorum said:

Absolutely. Kernow had a replacement sent to the despatch room on the same day as my faulty one was received. It arrived yesterday. There is a lot to be said for it, even if many of the criticisms are valid. There is a lot of separately applied detail and it runs well. There is a slight waddle but nothing I find unacceptable. It’s very controllable and smooth and has no trouble negotiating points. Infuriatingly, though, a rear sandbox and sand pipe are missing with no sign of them in the box. The girder at the bottom of the front buffer beam has been glued on crookedly but is barely noticeable. (The rear one was broken off on my original model.)

 

The cab light functions in a most curious fashion, apart from being too bright (has Modelu produced a driver with sunglasses?) On DC, apply the power and the light comes on. Switch it off with the wand and reduce the power and the light comes on again briefly before power turns off completely. Stop to reverse direction and the light comes on again. Even more disconcertingly, at shunting speed, the light turns on again randomly. The instructions say that the light can be controlled by the wand or a decoder, so the problem might not occur on DCC. Is this a universal fault or specific to my model?

 

 

I had similar issues with the light coming back on randomly, I do think it's a DC only problem though, not that I had a chance to put a decoder in mine. Sadly, I will not be receiving a replacement, all the remaining models at Rails had varying degrees of body fitting issues and under testing, a few of them started out silent and then developed noisy running as it progressed, suggesting that the gears are not the best quality used in these models either. The sales guy said that in good conscience he couldn't send any of the models out to me unless I specifically said I wanted one and so we've put the money towards other pre-orders I have placed instead. 
All in all, a negative for Heljan here, but a big positive for Rails of Sheffield.

[bubbles2]

Received my replacement yesterday following a phone call from Kernow, he said they all wobble a bit but most not as bad as the one I returned, I was offered my money back but I opted for the one that  wobbled the least and the replacement is much better and certainly acceptable to me. The problem with this one is the cab light will not stay turned off with the wand supplied, when stopped or at low power or changing direction it just comes on again, but I will disconnect or mask it as in my opinion it is far too bright and something of a gimmick. The gap under the bonnet that most have I can probably sort once I get it apart, the bar at the bottom of the buffer beam is fitted badly  but these will need to be removed temporarily to fit the tension lock blanking plate and screw link couplings, So all in all not too bad, but still not what I expect from a new model. I give it 5 out of 10, could do better. 

[Rich Papper]

'Disappointed' doesn't quite cover my feelings today. Always wanted one of these. Ordered one of the pristine versions as soon as it was possible to do so.

 

First one arrived broken. Pieces of the bufferbeam loose in the box and, like several shown above, ran like a rodeo horse. Returned, very quick and efficient turnaround from Kernow.

 

Second one arrived. Intact, but wheels even more wonky than the first - to the point that Gaugemaster controller got to 45 before the wheels moved at all due to the binding of the connecting rods. Also sounded like it was full of gravel in reverse. This may have eased with running in, but a shunting loco that can only lurch from stop to a scale 20mph+ instantly with nothing in between is of no use. Also ran like a rodeo horse. Returned - third time lucky?

 

Hopes of such were knocked back a bit this morning when I received a phone call from Kernow. The chap was terribly apologetic, and asked what I wanted to do next. I'll let you draw your own conclusions from the following, quoted verbatim:

 

"I've got five others out and put them on the rolling road, there isn't a better one".

 

"We've had a lot back. They all seem to run like this".

 

Out of sympathy for Kernow, and respect for their honesty and excellent customer service in dealing with this issue (I'm a happy customer of theirs, will be again, have other things on order), I am going for a third one. I guess I've got the time until that arrives to decide what to do if it too waddles like a duck.

 

I'm at a loss. Gutted. The Heljan 33s (of which I have many) are brilliant, and bulletproof under exhibition conditions. Same the 128s I have, the 58, and Sarah Siddons. But the chap I spoke to this morning didn't know of any plans by Heljan to rectify this (clearly known) issue. What does the retailer do in these circumstances? What of the investment Kernow and Model Rail have put into this? The loco itself is beautiful, and superbly decorated, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who balks at spending £170 for something that frustration will quickly relegate to a shelf.

 

Waiting for the postman with everything crossed.

Rich

 

[Roy Langridge]

I share your disappointment @Rich Papper, but without the pain of purchase. This was on my wish list for a long time, however, having seen the poor  model offered with apparent poor design flaws, basic features not present (sprung buffers/lighting), extremely poor QA and a price tag at the higher-end for a shunter, I decided my wait will continue. 
 

I would love to know what Kernow and ModelRail think and have said to Heljan, they too must be disappointed. 
 

Roy