Hornby 2022 Black 5 new tooling

[Steamport Southport]

23 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

 

maybe its time to look at the discount pattern from a new perspective…

correct as at 21-Apr at 2100

 

Mostly rolling stock, and models by the traditional big three, whom arguably the ones with the higher price points.

 

I looked. All diesels and electrics that nobody wants, yet the diehards keep telling us they sell and steam doesn't. All those coaches and wagons are modern as well.

 

None of these mythical "bargain bin" black 0-6-0s to be seen. 

 

Maybe look at the facts. Can't blame Hornby for this even though everyone seems to think it's only Hornby stuff being discounted.

 

It doesn't even include todays offer for severely discounted Class 73s at half RRP!

 

 

 

 

 

Jason

[adb968008]

On 21/04/2024 at 03:31, toby_tl10 said:

Has anyone done a side by side comparison of the old Black 5 and the new one? I'm interested to know if the "upgrades" are worth it. I've scrolled from page 27 to here, and there doesn't seem to be one.

 

Having watched a few reviews on youtube (including Class47Peter and Sam'strains), I think it's fair to say everybody agrees you can't change the headlamps without completely ripping it apart. This sounds like a bit of a joke to me. Not to mention the tail lamp on the tender. Personally, I'd prefer having no head/tail lamp just like all my other steam locos over having a largely imperfect solution.

 

----

A bit off topic here. Accurascale people I know you're watching. If people don't like the giant Hornby lamps, they probably won't appreciate yours on the yellow Class 31.

Comparing old and new is something I like doing.

 

But unfortunately i’m not convinced and havent bought one.

 

Looking over the pictures theres clear upgrades, to cylinders, boiler separate features, an improved cab back head, chimney detail, motion. The wheels look fantastic. The wheels particularly the axles, and tyres look good.

 

I might be alone in liking the ability to change lamps, and illuminated firebox glow. (I was told at warley they were planning to glue them in for delivery, and my gut feel at Sams video hints they maybe. I suspect Hornby may get a number of returns of these broken). Hornby deserves credit for this innovation, and absolutely should continue imo, and credit for listening on being able to pose the lamps, but it may need a little more work…

 

A suggestion for the lamps / lampirons for the future… under the light track fit a neo magnet, and make the lamps metal so they attract and hold but can be easy to move. If theres an after market supplier thinking of doing this, it may not be the worst approach… tbh I think the 3 leds is overkill anyway.. if the lamps there its on… so 1 led and a light track to all positions would suffice imo.

 

What I see as the downside is the difficulty changing the lamps, width between loco and tender, lack of metal body to add weight.

 

For DC users that flywheel is quite important for low speed and for rhythm.. you could see the jerkiness of the model in Sams trains review, even with the P2 tender. This will only bite harder if the track isnt clean, going back to the 1990’s this was why flywheels came to DC models in the pre DCC era… The presence of axle bearings, hall sensor all line up to a nice model. The snow ploughs look a nice touch too.

 

I was wondering whether to buy a 5200, but the silver paint finish on the axles, cylinder head and smokebox are off putting what should really be metallic finish… knowing that is something I will have to change means It wont be an A-list purchase at over £200.

 

A very nice looking model, I want one, but at the price it is, I feel its short comings outweigh its benefits.., which is a pity as theres definitely a lot of benefits there… the old black 5 will look poor next to it and the detail is there… £170 i’d probably move, indeed I’d probably buy in for a few, but >£200 i’m happy to sit out…the 9F, the 2MT this clearly is not, and the world has slightly changed since 2020.

What would it take to get to a £220+ model.. metal body, easy to adjust lamps, flywheel.. all of which I think they could do.

 

why ?

The moment I put a dab of paint on that £200 model to suit my style, ive knocked £50 off its residual value…. And if in 6 months it price drops £50.. then ive laid waste to £100… or in old money models.. that was the cost for an entire loco ive just lost. This is no longer a game of buying a model as a “starting point to customize”… though if the price drops in 6 months I may have a dabble, and with a dozen Black 5’s already i’m not missing out, where as the £100 i just didnt lay waste to finds umpteen other uses.

i’m just hoping the bent frame, glue marks, tender issue etc is just something in Sams unique instance, however I also fear that perennial issue of the drivers side wind shields getting damaged looks to have passed into the new model too… and I never found spares for the old model.

Lets see what 45157 brings, but when I look at a Black 5, I see Black wheels, like this…

not shiny rims like this…

 

 

And really hope all the lamps are in the bag, and let me fit them myself.

Edited April 22 by adb968008

[E100]

I can only assume the lack of diecast boiler will be due to the number of different versions required. Compare this to the 9F and 2MT (at least those that are released and planned) with much fewer boiler variations unless someone wants to correct me?

[ColinB]

3 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

 

I'm not crazy about the tender underframe - diecasting certainly seems to be a rabbit hole in this case and I don't think the result is as good as on earlier all-plastic models, certainly not as crisp, which I think will show up in normal use.  There also seems to be less daylight than there should be through the frame cutouts. They had a good Stanier 4000 gallon tender underframe with the Princess and all they needed were some 9 ton bodies to go on top.

 

 

It may be they wanted the extra weight. One of the reviewers I watched was showing how to fit the DCC decoder, it was hard to see but it looked like the tender weight was gone and it was mainly plastic. As I say it wasn't easy to see, but that could be a reason.

[Dunsignalling]

9 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I looked. All diesels and electrics that nobody wants, yet the diehards keep telling us they sell and steam doesn't. All those coaches and wagons are modern as well.

 

None of these mythical "bargain bin" black 0-6-0s to be seen. 

 

Maybe look at the facts. Can't blame Hornby for this even though everyone seems to think it's only Hornby stuff being discounted.

 

It doesn't even include todays offer for severely discounted Class 73s at half RRP!

 

 

 

 

 

Jason

 

The big difference between steam and diesel/electric is a proliferation of models of the latter representing rare or one-off liveries. I've gained an impression that the market may be somewhat polarised where those are concerned.

 

A case of collectors, and those who have personally observed the "exotica" desiring a reminder of the occasion, snapping them up but with little residual interest from those who didn't "cop" them, if production runs were a bit optimistic, perhaps?

 

John

Edited April 22 by Dunsignalling

[MikeParkin65]

I'm reluctantly going to cancel my pre order for the Hornby model as I feel it is too compromised by gimmickry for the price asked.

 

The Black 5 is one of those iconic classes that the market can sustain more than one manufacturer of and with Hornby taking the mass market rtr segment the window is open for someone else going for the high end market. In the meantime I've enough Hornby Black 5 and Brassmaster parts 'in stock' to build up as many variants as I need. In time 'parts' from the new model will also filter in to the second hand market and if they do I might well find a use for them - my most recent new model Princess Coronation came to me this way  - £25 for the body, £75 for the chassis and tender. 

[GrumpyPenguin]

12 hours ago, adb968008 said:

For DC users that flywheel is quite important

Although I am an enthusiastic DCC user I appreciate that DCC is not for everyone.

 

DCC is not supposed to make up for mechanisms that could be better. However, DCC will make a good mechanism even better.

[Legend]

I think the lack of 0-6-0s in bargain basement is that no one really has been releasing them recently . What was the last one J36?  I know Rails still have the LMS Caley 812 available at £179 , so not exactly a bargain and it was a limited edition .

 

You have to wonder how may CEPs TMC ordered as they are still there heavily discounted . Unless Bachmann use them as a sales channel to dispose slow moving stock . TMC rapidly becoming my go to supplier as they do seem to have some good bargains .

 

To be honest the new Black 5 does look good , but I already have 3 . One dating from 1985 and the other two from the 2000s . They are good enough for me , so unless the price comes down I really don't have a lot of interest. And there are other models I'm similarly waiting to see if price drops ahead of any consideration of a Black 5 . 

[Flying Pig]

13 hours ago, ColinB said:

It may be they wanted the extra weight. One of the reviewers I watched was showing how to fit the DCC decoder, it was hard to see but it looked like the tender weight was gone and it was mainly plastic. As I say it wasn't easy to see, but that could be a reason.

 

Yes possibly, but designing a tender isn't rocket science and Hornby generally do it very well.  It's not as if the Stanier type is particularly small either.

[MoonM]

1 hour ago, Legend said:

I think the lack of 0-6-0s in bargain basement is that no one really has been releasing them recently . What was the last one J36?  I know Rails still have the LMS Caley 812 available at £179 , so not exactly a bargain and it was a limited edition .

 

You have to wonder how may CEPs TMC ordered as they are still there heavily discounted . Unless Bachmann use them as a sales channel to dispose slow moving stock . TMC rapidly becoming my go to supplier as they do seem to have some good bargains .

 

To be honest the new Black 5 does look good , but I already have 3 . One dating from 1985 and the other two from the 2000s . They are good enough for me , so unless the price comes down I really don't have a lot of interest. And there are other models I'm similarly waiting to see if price drops ahead of any consideration of a Black 5 . 

I picked up my j15 in a bargain basement sale. One of Hornby's best locos in my opinion but seemed always to be discounted. Maybe not quite as 'sexy' as some of the larger engines? Or maybe Hornby produced far too many? 

[Quadrille]

I constantly read a great deal about all the defects with this model or that model...why do muggs buy and then complain so much..??   There have been plenty of Warnings about several models, including the new Hornby Bk 5.

The only answer with ALL of them/the manufacturers is to Stop purchasing in the Hope that "Oh I think mine will be okay"... Just don't buy the 2nd-rate models and save your money.

With regards to Sam's Trains...Sam did you all a favour...he purchased a new Bk 5 and his frustration and disappointment was clear for all to see and then he said it was going back for a refund, Not a replacement!!

Apart from the obviously ridiculous high cost, as Sam has said, there's the frustration, disappointment, and time and cost... I have stuck to my initial decision Not to purchase Any new model based on the poor and defective offerings of recent-date and it's Not just Hornby because I will never purchase anything Accurascale after the constant stopping in different areas of the layout of the "Manor" class model with the wheels still spinning away...and Both models do it and No other model does this and the track is cleaned with CMX and IPA and is kept clean!!   Before anybody wants to tell the World that their such and such model(s) is/are perfect then good luck with that as, like me, more are preferring the Dapol option that has a superior motor...at least in my opinion if more than sixty-five years means anything.

Edited April 22 by Quadrille

[ColinB]

39 minutes ago, Quadrille said:

I constantly read a great deal about all the defects with this model or that model...why do muggs buy and then complain so much..??   There have been plenty of Warnings about several models, including the new Hornby Bk 5.

The only answer with ALL of them/the manufacturers is to Stop purchasing in the Hope that "Oh I think mine will be okay"... Just don't buy the 2nd-rate models and save your money.

With regards to Sam's Trains...Sam did you all a favour...he purchased a new Bk 5 and his frustration and disappointment was clear for all to see and then he said it was going back for a refund, Not a replacement!!

Apart from the obviously ridiculous high cost, as Sam has said, there's the frustration, disappointment, and time and cost... I have stuck to my initial decision Not to purchase Any new model based on the poor and defective offerings of recent-date and it's Not just Hornby because I will never purchase anything Accurascale after the constant stopping in different areas of the layout of the "Manor" class model with the wheels still spinning away...and Both models do it and No other model does this and the track is cleaned with CMX and IPA and is kept clean!!   Before anybody wants to tell the World that their such and such model(s) is/are perfect then good luck with that as, like me, more are preferring the Dapol option that has a superior motor...at least in my opinion if more than sixty-five years means anything.

A lot of people pre order them because of the hyper inflation Hornby used to add to them from when they appear in the catalogue to when they arrive. The difference can be more than 20%, then they are too polite to send them back when they are not that good. I get the opinion Hornby have reached a point where the price is having an adverse effect on sales so no more 20% hikes, but when I read a lot of posts on this site and the Hornby forum, some people think that they are not expensive. I can afford them but I am getting to the point where I don't want to. Then there is the point that a lot of the locos I preordered, appear in bargain sales. I wanted an HD Dwight D Eisenhower, I just couldn't justify it at Hornby price less 10%, surprisingly it appeared at a more reasonable price in someone's sale. The thing that really gets me, and I complain about it a lot, is when you buy a supposed new model to find it is virtually the same as one 20 years ago. All they have done is done a repaint.  The thing I like about Sam is that his videos are easy to watch (many other YouTube reviews send me to sleep) and generally he is right, even on the black 5 one. If you watch it to the end he actually states that perhaps he was unlucky with his purchase. I suspect most people that are moaning about him didn't watch it to the end.

[Black 5 Bear]

10 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

I'm reluctantly going to cancel my pre order for the Hornby model as I feel it is too compromised by gimmickry for the price asked.

 

The Black 5 is one of those iconic classes that the market can sustain more than one manufacturer of and with Hornby taking the mass market rtr segment the window is open for someone else going for the high end market. In the meantime I've enough Hornby Black 5 and Brassmaster parts 'in stock' to build up as many variants as I need. In time 'parts' from the new model will also filter in to the second hand market and if they do I might well find a use for them - my most recent new model Princess Coronation came to me this way  - £25 for the body, £75 for the chassis and tender. 

I don't blame you Mike.

Personally, I'll keep my two pre orders going with Hornby, as the Caprotti version isn't currently in the main range and the S+S version was secured for a very good price, which will be even better with spending a few points.

If I encounter any of the reported problems with these models, they will be returned for a replacement or refund.

Edited April 22 by Black 5 Bear

[andyman7]

On 21/04/2024 at 21:43, Steamport Southport said:

 

I looked. All diesels and electrics that nobody wants, yet the diehards keep telling us they sell and steam doesn't. All those coaches and wagons are modern as well.

 

None of these mythical "bargain bin" black 0-6-0s to be seen. 

 

Maybe look at the facts. Can't blame Hornby for this even though everyone seems to think it's only Hornby stuff being discounted.

 

It doesn't even include todays offer for severely discounted Class 73s at half RRP!

 

 

 

 

 

Jason

 

In virtually every case it is certain liveries that don't sell out rather than the models as a whole. In the case of AC electrics, TOPS and later era models don't generally end up in the bargain bins, it's the late 60s and steam crossover variants that stick a bit.

 

10 hours ago, Legend said:

You have to wonder how may CEPs TMC ordered as they are still there heavily discounted . Unless Bachmann use them as a sales channel to dispose slow moving stock . TMC rapidly becoming my go to supplier as they do seem to have some good bargains .

 

the CEPS/BEPS were stock disposals by Bachmann. In Hattons style TMC took them on at what was no doubt an advantageous price. 

[The Stationmaster]

9 hours ago, MoonM said:

I picked up my j15 in a bargain basement sale. One of Hornby's best locos in my opinion but seemed always to be discounted. Maybe not quite as 'sexy' as some of the larger engines? Or maybe Hornby produced far too many? 

Judging by various thngs, including their Covid  'start a layout' bundles, Hornby were at one time blessed with a small mountain of J15s.  I suspect that was a result of one of their typically ill-managed Year 2 over-ordering fiascos.  Yet another example of their poor marketing am nd lak of understanding of the market.

 

The Black 5 at least has the advantage of being the basis for them to produce many of the variants over the years to come but, as ever, even doing that they need to get teh marketing right and that includes the price point at which they put it into the market.   Here, if they bothered, they could learn a lot from Accurascale, and maybe even from Bachmann as well.  accurascale could no doubt have produced an equally verstaile suite of Black 5 topling which would deliver revenue for years to come but I suspect they would have taken much greater care over the initial launch and thevariants it would include by going for a broader opening market rather than Hornby's slightly hit & miss approach in that respect.  In simplistic terms the initial launch has to include some big hitters in terms of sale numbers and to do that you need to understand the market. And big hitters in sales terms mean lower prices for the end consumer.

[melmerby]

On 21/04/2024 at 21:57, adb968008 said:

Lets see what 45157 brings, but when I look at a Black 5, I see Black wheels, like this…

Maybe Hornby think all Black 5s are like 5000 when first introduced.

Lots of polished steel, includiung the wheel rims..

[MoonM]

54 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Judging by various thngs, including their Covid  'start a layout' bundles, Hornby were at one time blessed with a small mountain of J15s.  I suspect that was a result of one of their typically ill-managed Year 2 over-ordering fiascos.  Yet another example of their poor marketing am nd lak of understanding of the market.

 

The Black 5 at least has the advantage of being the basis for them to produce many of the variants over the years to come but, as ever, even doing that they need to get teh marketing right and that includes the price point at which they put it into the market.   Here, if they bothered, they could learn a lot from Accurascale, and maybe even from Bachmann as well.  accurascale could no doubt have produced an equally verstaile suite of Black 5 topling which would deliver revenue for years to come but I suspect they would have taken much greater care over the initial launch and thevariants it would include by going for a broader opening market rather than Hornby's slightly hit & miss approach in that respect.  In simplistic terms the initial launch has to include some big hitters in terms of sale numbers and to do that you need to understand the market. And big hitters in sales terms mean lower prices for the end consumer.

Yup, there appear to be some v low hanging fruit out there. Produce (say) 120% of the pre-orders made and you won't be grossly overstocked

[No Decorum]

19 hours ago, Quadrille said:

I constantly read a great deal about all the defects with this model or that model...why do muggs buy and then complain so much..??   There have been plenty of Warnings about several models, including the new Hornby Bk 5.

The only answer with ALL of them/the manufacturers is to Stop purchasing in the Hope that "Oh I think mine will be okay"... Just don't buy the 2nd-rate models and save your money.

With regards to Sam's Trains...Sam did you all a favour...he purchased a new Bk 5 and his frustration and disappointment was clear for all to see and then he said it was going back for a refund, Not a replacement!!

Apart from the obviously ridiculous high cost, as Sam has said, there's the frustration, disappointment, and time and cost... I have stuck to my initial decision Not to purchase Any new model based on the poor and defective offerings of recent-date and it's Not just Hornby because I will never purchase anything Accurascale after the constant stopping in different areas of the layout of the "Manor" class model with the wheels still spinning away...and Both models do it and No other model does this and the track is cleaned with CMX and IPA and is kept clean!!   Before anybody wants to tell the World that their such and such model(s) is/are perfect then good luck with that as, like me, more are preferring the Dapol option that has a superior motor...at least in my opinion if more than sixty-five years means anything.

There is much sense being talked here. However, it is the people who buy a model and moan who alert the rest of us to problems and we are in their debt. There is much about Hornby models which is good. I hesitate to say that their motors are the best on the market but I don’t think they have been improved upon. After admitting (far too late) that their paint finishes were awful and doing something to correct them, their appearance isn’t bad either. All that said, the final models often have some error which lets them down. Take the Turbomotive, for example, the last Hornby model I am likely to pre-order. I think I can turn it into a good model but only by disabling the lighting which has added unnecessary cost to the model. There is a string of Hornby models recently which really should not have been released to the market in the state they were. Dapol is another company which, to its credit, rectifies shortcomings in subsequent releases but leaves people who have pre-ordered the first release high and dry. In fairness to Dapol, shortcomings are nothing like as bad as Hornby’s and in fairness to both companies, I have to add that they are not alone.

[franciswilliamwebb]

20 hours ago, MoonM said:

I picked up my j15 in a bargain basement sale. One of Hornby's best locos in my opinion but seemed always to be discounted. Maybe not quite as 'sexy' as some of the larger engines? Or maybe Hornby produced far too many? 

 

I always thought those were flogged off cheap because of the boiler hand-rail foul-up.  Of course, having passed it by at the time, I now regret not buying one because we won't see those sort of prices again🙄

[Fireline]

21 minutes ago, franciswilliamwebb said:

 

I always thought those were flogged off cheap because of the boiler hand-rail foul-up.  Of course, having passed it by at the time, I now regret not buying one because we won't see those sort of prices again🙄

 

The first versions sold well, so Hornby ordered a bunch more. The second batch sold a lot more slowly, because by then a lot of people who wanted a J15 already had one. The boiler hand rail was a tooling compromise rather than a mistake or foul up. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On 21/04/2024 at 18:47, steve45 said:

...I'm not going to replace my previous versions...

Good news for me, if there are many of the same opinion, there should be good availability when an 'extemely ordinary' all black late BR version appears...

 

On 21/04/2024 at 18:47, steve45 said:

I just don't think its worth over £200. It needs reworking (lights and tender coupling) to make it into a state where it is a marginal improvement over it's predecessor.

My questions about any new product are:

'Could I produce a model equally good by DIY for that price?' and since Bachmann's WD 2-8-0 of 1999 the answer has typically been 'no way!'.

And following on from that, 

'Is this model good enough as a starting point for the usual work required to bring RTR OO product up to the standard of appearance and performance I require?', and this is the first RTR Black 5 model I have seen that provisionally puts a tick in that box.

 

I had hoped for a metal loco body which works to such good effect on Hornby's B12/3, would some kind soul care to weigh the Black 5 loco alone please?

 

At very least the lights and loco to tender linkage are coming off, weight is probably going in the loco body, and filth shall be liberally applied for that 'final decade of LMR steam' appearance. 

 

[MikeParkin65]

3 hours ago, franciswilliamwebb said:

 

I always thought those were flogged off cheap because of the boiler hand-rail foul-up.  Of course, having passed it by at the time, I now regret not buying one because we won't see those sort of prices again🙄

I paid £149.98 for a J15 and  Royal Scot 'The Ranger' from a well known Cotswold based shop. I do think the J15 had been mis priced at £49.99 tho as I added a link to 'Bargain Buys' on here and the next person to try and buy one was charged £75.

[MoonM]

I personally don't quite understand why companies like Hornby and Heljan don't take feedback on these forum pages as constructively as (say) Accurascale seem to do. Yes, the tone of feedback from some of us on these threads can sometimes leave something to be desired, however sharing the development life-cycle over forums such as this is free r&d for companies such as accurascale. Having us comment on inaccuracies before production is free advice and Accurascale milk us dry for this free r&d. Whereas companies such as Heljan and Hornby tend to ignore this free feedback - perhaps a little too proud or stubborn to take it?! 

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, MoonM said:

I personally don't quite understand why companies like Hornby and Heljan don't take feedback on these forum pages as constructively as (say) Accurascale seem to do. Yes, the tone of feedback from some of us on these threads can sometimes leave something to be desired, however sharing the development life-cycle over forums such as this is free r&d for companies such as accurascale. Having us comment on inaccuracies before production is free advice and Accurascale milk us dry for this free r&d. Whereas companies such as Heljan and Hornby tend to ignore this free feedback - perhaps a little too proud or stubborn to take it?! 

Oh they definitely do.

 

they just dont openly recognise it.

 

As an example It was recognised at EP stage that having royal train configuration of headlamps on the Black 5 wouldnt fly.

 

 

I think theyve listened a lot on the Black 5, but equally it depends where the model is in the production cycle as to how much they can modify. Visiting the exhibitions the Hornby team are very open to feedback and sharing what theyve changed and what they are planning.
 

Heljan, Bachmann etc are all very approachable and personable at the shows… their passions are clear, but they arent always at liberty to speak freely online. I do urge visiting them, talking to them at shows etc you learn much more and do listen to feedback.
 

I try to write my opinions and suggestions here knowing at shows they wont remember it all and it is nice to see they do improve models from collective opinions like forums to improve models, which is why I always suggest putting in constructive criticism here at EP stage… they might not act on it. but they see it… when they see a consensus / large feedback it adds weight to acting on it.

At days end, no one wants a bad model, especially not someone spending two-five years of their life designing it.
 

Thats why i’m waiting on 45157, those EP wheels are very black, cast and nothing like their predecessors, which I think is something they took feedback from on here too.

 

Edited April 23 by adb968008

[cctransuk]

52 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Oh they definitely do.

 

they just dont openly recognise it.

 

As an example It was recognised at EP stage that having royal train configuration of headlamps on the Black 5 wouldnt fly.

 

 

I think theyve listened a lot on the Black 5, but equally it depends where the model is in the production cycle as to how much they can modify. Visiting the exhibitions the Hornby team are very open to feedback and sharing what theyve changed and what they are planning.
 

Heljan, Bachmann etc are all very approachable and personable at the shows… their passions are clear, but they arent always at liberty to speak freely online. I do urge visiting them, talking to them at shows etc you learn much more and do listen to feedback.
 

I try to write my opinions and suggestions here knowing at shows they wont remember it all and it is nice to see they do improve models from collective opinions like forums to improve models, which is why I always suggest putting in constructive criticism here at EP stage… they might not act on it. but they see it… when they see a consensus / large feedback it adds weight to acting on it.

At days end, no one wants a bad model, especially not someone spending two-five years of their life designing it.
 

Thats why i’m waiting on 45157, those EP wheels are very black, cast and nothing like their predecessors, which I think is something they took feedback from on here too.

 

 

What I still fail to understand is, if Hornby's design team are as knowledgeable as we have been assured, why ANYONE thought that a fixed Royal Train headcode could possibly be acceptable. It should NOT need the members of this forum to point this out.

 

There was a time when forum members commented on the minutae of detail on new models; now, it seems, companies are putting out poorly researched EPs, relying on potential customers to identify the most basic of errors.

 

CJI.