Hornby 2022 Black 5 new tooling

[spamcan61]

On 11/12/2023 at 12:56, Pmorgancym said:

I suppose the question to me is this, if Hornby produced the old/current 5 in the Railroad plus range.  Would you buy that or the all singing  /dancing premium model?

Pretty much all the post 2000 Hornby models are good enough for me so I'd buy the RR+ one. By and large the latest products are well into lily gilding territory from a personal point if view.

Edited December 13, 2023 by spamcan61

[jjb1970]

It's going to be increasingly difficult to make models which offer enough of an improvement over existing models to make it worth upgrading. That doesn't matter for newcomers to the hobby or people buying additional models but I don't think manufacturers will have another windfall like they did from the late 90's when new releases were snapped up by those replacing older models as well as new sales. So I can see why manufacturers are looking at trick features to create reasons to entice people back into the upgrade cycle.

[Legend]

On 11/12/2023 at 12:56, Pmorgancym said:

I suppose the question to me is this, if Hornby produced the old/current 5 in the Railroad plus range.  Would you buy that or the all singing  /dancing premium model?

I think they are unlikely to cannibalise sales of the new model by putting what is already a pretty good model in the Railroad range . I already have two of the latest iteration and one tender drive one . Remember also that the old Black 5 converted to loco drive is already in Railroad 

[jjb1970]

1 hour ago, Legend said:

I think they are unlikely to cannibalise sales of the new model by putting what is already a pretty good model in the Railroad range . I already have two of the latest iteration and one tender drive one . Remember also that the old Black 5 converted to loco drive is already in Railroad 

 

It would seem unlikely that they'd put a model still able to compete with the new full fat model in the Railroad range. Eminently sensible but perhaps a pity for those still very happy with the existing model. Though I'm not sure there would be room for Hornby to reduce the price of the existing model to separate it sufficiently to sit in a different space range wise.

[Steamport Southport]

Am I missing something here as I thought it was only the smoke generator fitted Fives with lights?

 

Normal ones don't have them.

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/community/blog-and-news/engine-shed/view-p2

 

 

 

Jason

[Right Away]

If manufacturers feel there is a need for working headlamps on model steam locomotives they might well consider those prototypes that were equipped with electric lighting. Many designs by Peppercorn, Thompson, Bullied and of particular relevance to this thread, certain class Fives by Ivatt were so equipped, although it was mainly only the Southern types that retained the electric lighting until withdrawal - if it still worked!

 

Miniature optical fibres could be utilised to convey light from a central source of 4 (6 on SR engines) micro LEDs switchable by function, to individual fixed lamp heads. It is accepted that this type of feature would carry the burden of additional cost on what have become quite expensive purchases, especially the 20 year old Bulleids and from a personal viewpoint a gimmick I could happily forgo.

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Right Away
spelling

[Wheatley]

10 minutes ago, Right Away said:

If manufacturers feel there is a need for working headlamps on model steam locomotives they might well consider those prototypes that were equipped with electric lighting. Many designs by Peppercorn, Thompson, Bullied and of particular relevance to this thread, certain class Fives by Ivatt were so equipped, although it was mainly only the Southern types that retained the electric lighting until withdrawal - if it still worked!

 

Miniature optical fibres could be utilised to convey light from a central source of 4 (6 on SR engines) micro LEDs switchable by function, to individual fixed lamp heads. It is accepted that this type of feature would carry the burden of additional cost on what have become quite expensive purchases, especially the 20 year old Bulleids and from a personal viewpoint a gimmick I could happily forgo.

 

Heljan have in fact done this on their Hunslet (Class 05), not only are the lamps to scale but they are suitably dim (40w bulb rather than oil lamps). One day I will work out how to make them 1 red/1 white at each end rather than both the same but that's a long way down the 'to-do' list.   

[Hroth]

14 minutes ago, Wheatley said:

Heljan have in fact done this on their Hunslet (Class 05), not only are the lamps to scale but they are suitably dim (40w bulb rather than oil lamps). One day I will work out how to make them 1 red/1 white at each end rather than both the same but that's a long way down the 'to-do' list.   

 

Heljan also provided prototypically dim lighting on their Class 28 model. I recall that there were complaints that the lights were too dim and couldn't be seen in daylight...

 

[adb968008]

On 13/12/2023 at 14:28, Right Away said:

If manufacturers feel there is a need for working headlamps on model steam locomotives they might well consider those prototypes that were equipped with electric lighting. Many designs by Peppercorn, Thompson, Bullied and of particular relevance to this thread, certain class Fives by Ivatt were so equipped, although it was mainly only the Southern types that retained the electric lighting until withdrawal - if it still worked!

 

Miniature optical fibres could be utilised to convey light from a central source of 4 (6 on SR engines) micro LEDs switchable by function, to individual fixed lamp heads. It is accepted that this type of feature would carry the burden of additional cost on what have become quite expensive purchases, especially the 20 year old Bulleids and from a personal viewpoint a gimmick I could happily forgo.

 

That actually makes it more complicated, with the non-electric lighting locos, you wont need the switches… if theres a lamp, its on. No lamp..no light needed, cover it with a lamp iron.

 

But otherwise do agree on the Bulleid, it would be nice.

Edited December 15, 2023 by adb968008

[Wheatley]

How difficult is 4 switches ? And a 5th for front or back. 

[Dunsignalling]

On 13/12/2023 at 13:46, Steamport Southport said:

Am I missing something here as I thought it was only the smoke generator fitted Fives with lights?

 

Normal ones don't have them.

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/community/blog-and-news/engine-shed/view-p2

 

 

 

Jason

 

I fervently hope you are correct but, try as I might, I couldn't see any reference to that in the source you quoted.

 

John

Edited December 15, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[Fair Oak Junction]

The product images for all the new tooled Black 5s show there being lamps, as did the models in the case at Warley.

[Steamport Southport]

7 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

I fervently hope you are correct but, try as I might, I couldn't see any reference to that in the source you quoted.

 

John

 

Never mind. I thought they didn't have lamps. Photos are a bit too small.

 

Cutters at the ready!

 

 

Jason

[Dunsignalling]

1 minute ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Never mind. I thought they didn't have lamps. Photos are a bit too small.

 

Cutters at the ready!

 

 

Jason

 

I bought a nice new pair of Xuron sprue cutters a few weeks back, only to find another pair in the drawer that hadn't seen much use. The new ones will therefore be held back for "Lampectomy" duties...

 

[Pmorgancym]

On 15/12/2023 at 14:54, Dunsignalling said:

 

I bought a nice new pair of Xuron sprue cutters a few weeks back, only to find another pair in the drawer that hadn't seen much use. The new ones will therefore be held back for "Lampectomy" duties...

 

Be interesting to see what mess is left behind...

[Pmorgancym]

On 13/12/2023 at 11:32, Legend said:

I think they are unlikely to cannibalise sales of the new model by putting what is already a pretty good model in the Railroad range . I already have two of the latest iteration and one tender drive one . Remember also that the old Black 5 converted to loco drive is already in Railroad 

I've not seen that in the catalogue recently either 

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, Pmorgancym said:

Be interesting to see what mess is left behind...

That really deoends on what there is ri v cur and where and how you can cut it.  Once you're down to a 'clean' running plate and smokebox  it hopefully will be just just a matter of adding lamp irons made from your favourite source be it etched brass, staples, or whatever, and the doing a spot of painting to hide any plastic gloss.  Only potential problem might be the presence of any rivet heads and the need to avoid them while trying to get a clean job.

 

For some of us a far more awkward job might be trying to remove a moulded-in smokebox numberplate to replace it with a more up-to-date way of representing one.

[Dunsignalling]

3 hours ago, Pmorgancym said:

Be interesting to see what mess is left behind...

Nothing is insurmountable, and I've been plastic-bashing long enough to be confident of not making matters worse. 

 

I've already cancelled two of my three pre-orders because of this. If removal doesn't go well, and these lights become standard, I'll just avoid buying any new Hornby loco that's not 100% irresistible.

 

There's already loads more locos in the cupboard than I have work for, and the Caprotti is the first new Hornby loco that I've considered a "must have" for quite some time.

 

John

[Pre Grouping fan]

The Black 5 and lamps were mentioned in the 2024 range launch Q&A video today. Lamps will be removable with lamp brackets and spare lamps in the accessory bag to cover over the LED's in the body. 

 

 

 

From 35:10

 

[Legend]

From Q&A sounds a bit more positive I think 

[sjp23480]

I am sorry but this is a really poor production.  I know it was a (presumably?) live Q&A session, but..........

 

8.5 minutes of looking at a static screen followed by a monotone, slightly contrived dialogue for almost an hour? 

 

I didn't feel compelled or inspired to watch the video from start to finish. 

 

No graphics or visuals to break up the footage (that I could see), not even the new catalogue or any of the new products?  No chapters to navigate to the relevant parts of the video?

 

Surely Hornby can do better than this?

[Pre Grouping fan]

10 minutes ago, sjp23480 said:

I am sorry but this is a really poor production.  I know it was a (presumably?) live Q&A session, but..........

 

8.5 minutes of looking at a static screen followed by a monotone, slightly contrived dialogue for almost an hour? 

 

I didn't feel compelled or inspired to watch the video from start to finish. 

 

No graphics or visuals to break up the footage (that I could see), not even the new catalogue or any of the new products?  No chapters to navigate to the relevant parts of the video?

 

Surely Hornby can do better than this?

 

There was video of the Locomotion No.1 running sample. 

[Compound1000]

55 minutes ago, sjp23480 said:

I am sorry but this is a really poor production.  I know it was a (presumably?) live Q&A session, but..........

 

8.5 minutes of looking at a static screen followed by a monotone, slightly contrived dialogue for almost an hour? 

 

I didn't feel compelled or inspired to watch the video from start to finish. 

 

No graphics or visuals to break up the footage (that I could see), not even the new catalogue or any of the new products?  No chapters to navigate to the relevant parts of the video?

 

Surely Hornby can do better than this?

 

This was the Q&A rather than the range launch video. The new stuff is shown off more in the Range Revealed video with a pacier presentation and a more palatable running time of 26 mins 

 

Hornby Range Revealed 2024

 

I agree though, the Q&A video was pretty dire. Clearly a live Q&A is rather depenedent on what they get asked but the lack of energy was obvious. To save anyone who wants to hear for themselves the bit about Black 5 lamps sitting through the whole thing this question is asked at 35 mins in 

 

 

Edited January 9 by Compound1000
Link insertion

[MikeParkin65]

12 hours ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

The Black 5 and lamps were mentioned in the 2024 range launch Q&A video today. Lamps will be removable with lamp brackets and spare lamps in the accessory bag to cover over the LED's in the body. 

 

 

 

From 35:10

 

Unless I heard it incorrectly these are also now not expected until November. Thats some relief to the wallet to be honest!

[Fair Oak Junction]

Certainly the smoke generator fitted one is now saying November, can't seem to find concrete info on the normal three versions though but I'd imagine the same.