Hornby announce TT:120

[Hobby]

1 hour ago, andythenorth said:

Being terribly childish, I can't be bothered to read the whole thread, although I made it through the first 4 pages.

 

Can someone summarise?

 

Have the thinking types all agreed with each other that this is all terribly stupid and can't possibly work yet?

 

Has valve gear been mentioned?  Is there a debate about why this isn't 3mm?

 

i.e.  is there any actual content in the thread beyond the first page announcement?

 

To summarise look at the video and catalogue, the rest of the thread is froth.

 

Some are knocking it, some because they don't seem to like Hornby and some because they don't agree with the choices and others because they are established in another scale and can't imagine what the market will be... Oh, and that it will fail and take Hornby down with it.

 

No valvegear... Yet. But give them time... ;)

 

No.

[MyRule1]

Although I read the first few pages of this thread, I must admit I have not read the next eight in any detail.

 

I have no qualms about Hornby going down the direct sales route but do have two issues. As I said in my only other post on this topic, I am very tempted to pre-order but:

 

1) Why no pre-Tops 08? This could act as a station pilot for the BR era steam loco's. As it is they stand alone, fine if you are modelling the ECML or WCML but the Pacific's would be your only loco's. There are other similar issues in the initial issues.

2) By taking the direct sales route, Hornby have not opened up any route for part-exchange. I will be looking to sell my N gauge collection to fund a move to TT, but would be willing to sell for a lesser price if I could get a discount on TT over the 15% you get from the free club membership.

[Jeff Smith]

Judging by the speed of growth of this thread there are some interested parties......

 

Aslo, IIRC on Peco/Heljan TT:120 threads there were comments to the tune of 'it'll never work without introduction of a significant range in one go......'.

 

There was also speculation that the way to go is with traditional train sets.

 

Well, guess what!  And with correct scale to gauge, a first time for Hornby (excluding Arnold which I'm sure is involved in some way - perhaps the same factory!)

[Chris116]

My worry is that they have done TT once before. Admittedly 1:100 not the new 1:120 scale but still TT. My parents bought me a lovely railway set and then Tri-and dropped it like a hot potato had burnt them. I don't trust them not to do the same thing again in ten years time so will give this a wide berth in spite of still believing 3mm is the best scale.

[JSpencer]

Well give Hornby credit, they do try...

 

Railroad (actually worked)

Live steam (got costly before it could take off)

The Olympic range 

Basset Lowke O gauge range (a seriously missed opportunity to use the name for modern standard O gauge models)

Steampunk

.....

 

This would be a bit like Ukraine trying to perform massive blitzkreig manouvres using divisions rather than the smaller offensives using battalions at a time.

They have gone big, it might kick start TT120 and Heljan and others would equally benefit from it too (despite duplication).

 

I rest skeptical and do wonder how they arrived at the conclusion. I think they may expect sales to be really high due to Christmas coming. And I suspect it will end up being bit of slow slug at the start. The question is do they have the resources to sustain it for the period of time required to establish it (measured in years, maybe 10s I'd guess)? That said they are not alone this time around. So maybe....

[gr.king]

Deeply unimpressed by the logic of this new version of UK TT scale, the illogical combination of offerings in the steam era range, the modern image content of the range, and by Hornby's selling policy which seems to go totally against the interests of vital, struggling local model shops.

[AY Mod]

8 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Talk to most retailers in the lower any tiers and that’s been the case for the last few years!

 

FIFY.

[Nile]

Do I spy traction tyres on the A3? (rear drivers).

[phil-b259]

9 minutes ago, MyRule1 said:

 

1) Why no pre-Tops 08? This could act as a station pilot for the BR era steam loco's. As it is they stand alone, fine if you are modelling the ECML or WCML but the Pacific's would be your only loco's. 

 

Size?

 

A LNER pacific is still pretty big even when shrunk to this new TT scale meaning still a decent amount of space inside the body to fit everything.

 

An 08 put through a similar shirk ray will be a harder proposition simply because it was already relatively small to start with.

[andythenorth]

15 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Imagine customer sees the ad in a newspaper, as usual doesn’t read the fine print, and wanders down his local model shop.. and asks have you got any of these Hornby trainsets being advertised.. the retailer wholeheartedly says yea, sells a OO trainset and says nowt about the TT one, afterall why would they ?

At the risk of going way off topic, which retailer is that again?   I live in a major UK city that has *one* shop selling model railways. 

 

I don't know if you've heard about the internet?

 

Of course, it may just be a passing fad https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/rkvwv5/daily_mail_21_years_ago_internet_may_be_just_a/

 

[Mel_H]

12 minutes ago, MyRule1 said:

Although I read the first few pages of this thread, I must admit I have not read the next eight in any detail.

 

I have no qualms about Hornby going down the direct sales route but do have two issues. As I said in my only other post on this topic, I am very tempted to pre-order but:

 

1) Why no pre-Tops 08? This could act as a station pilot for the BR era steam loco's. As it is they stand alone, fine if you are modelling the ECML or WCML but the Pacific's would be your only loco's. There are other similar issues in the initial issues.

2) By taking the direct sales route, Hornby have not opened up any route for part-exchange. I will be looking to sell my N gauge collection to fund a move to TT, but would be willing to sell for a lesser price if I could get a discount on TT over the 15% you get from the free club membership.

I suspect you will get a pre-TOPS 08, in due course, but it appears Hornby have (sensibly) gone for the better-selling examples first which does make sense. Don't forget, while many people on here sneer at Railroad, it's a market in which Hornby is a player of only one, which gives it market information that other manufacturers don't have. I'm sure they've taken this into account...

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Well I just joined the club...
But where's the "Jinty"?

Though good luck to their new venture.

[Mallard60022]

I wonder if anyone will consider, as part of a layout, using TT120 stuff as forced perspective?

'Q' a load of Physics and stuff I won't understand.

P

[Graham_Muz]

21 hours ago, JohnR said:

I have no inside knowledge, but I wonder if the track was made closer to home than some might assume?

 

Listening to what was said in the videos - the track has effectively been ready for some time. Its virtually ready to go. 

 

Peco seem to have issues producing enough track to satisfy their existing markets. I wonder if they have had an order of track for someone else to fulfil first?

 

Peco seem to have had wind of a major manufacturer entering the TT market - hence their own move. 

 

Or am I adding 2 and 2 to come up with 5?

5 

 

 

 

I believe the track is Tillig...

Edited October 11, 2022 by Graham_Muz
spealin

[Mallard60022]

7 minutes ago, Mel_H said:

I suspect you will get a pre-TOPS 08, in due course, but it appears Hornby have (sensibly) gone for the better-selling examples first which does make sense. Don't forget, while many people on here sneer at Railroad, it's a market in which Hornby is a player of only one, which gives it market information that other manufacturers don't have. I'm sure they've taken this into account...

Many of my not so important, appear once in a blue Moon, Maroon Mk1s are slightly enhanced Railroads. Any visitors will be so amazed to see a BR WR Loco at Seaton Junction (Diversions), they will be partially  dazzled with disbelief so not notice.

[Padishar Creel]

1 minute ago, Mallard60022 said:

I wonder if anyone will consider, as part of a layout, using TT120 stuff as forced perspective?

'Q' a load of Physics and stuff I won't understand.

P

A few years ago I saw a YouTube Clip, and a continental H0 model departed a scene came back a few minutes later as TT further back, diappeared and came back a few minutes later as N even further back, so it has been done.

 

es grüßt

pc 

[sjp23480]

1 hour ago, Moxy said:

 

 

Yes it is.  TT:120 is 1/10" to 1' (or 1" to 10' if you prefer).  If Hornby have put that in the leaflet then someone hasn't proof read it properly.

@Moxy, Well I cut and pasted the italic text from their brochure.

[Mallard60022]

2 minutes ago, Padishar Creel said:

A few years ago I saw a YouTube Clip, and a continental H0 model departed a scene came back a few minutes later as TT further back, diappeared and came back a few minutes later as N even further back, so it has been done.

 

es grüßt

pc 

Now that is Theatre and very clever indeed.

I have seen forced perspective Scenery and things like Vehicles in a slightly smaller scale.

I think that preceded Father Ted's explanation.

P

 

[Stefen1988]

Auhagen (german company) offers buildings suited for TT & H0/00 alike.

 

Faller has a Castle model in it's H0 Range which is actual a N model offered as a "background object".

[Mallard60022]

4 minutes ago, Tim Dubya said:

 

Pleye Wood or Pleyewood (whatever it's called) has a load of that foreign muck, including a 43xx or summat on the loco roster.  I don't how it got on the LSWR but it's in a box in the room next door.

Send help!

I've got one of they boy. Going to haul 8 Mk1s on the Diverted Devonian as per prototype 1960 or 61; CBA to check. There's more; even a County. Argggh, maybe even an early, almost ex works Western; shiny ! 

I've got all sorts of weird things that will turn up, including a LE USA.

[Mel_H]

3 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

My issue with Hornby's relationship with dealers is that they should either work with their dealers and stand behind them, or go direct sales. I can't help feeling that Hornby want the shop front presence of retailers while also wanting the cream for themselves in selling direct. Given my own circumstances I have little choice but to shop on-line for British outline, and if shopping on-line direct sales are a perfectly reasonable option. I don't know how representative I am but if you are an on-line shopper with no local dealers then it is somewhat moot whether you buy direct or from a dealer. I do think the trend is to online retail, the question is of timing. It's notable that many'shopping' malls here are now basically food and beverage malls and with most of the shops being supermarkets or jewellery shops. For some reason most retail seems to have migrated to online platforms but jewellery still seems very much physical shop based.

Hornby have said they will continue to supply OO to the trade and continue to develop it. Having a clean-sheet approach with TT:120 means that customers can have lower prices than if they were sold through the trade (there's the mark-up for the shops, plus the cost of reps, invoicing/credit control, sending the items out, dealing with trade enquiries - all something that ultimately the customer ends up paying for, whether it's Hornby or Bachmann.

 

That's one reason why smaller, leaner organisations, often run by people as a 'hobby' (no offence intended) can produce OO stuff for lower prices. They don't have the overheads, or need to apply the mark ups when they are dealing with only a relatively small number of model shops, or not at all.

 

I'm all for model shops, but how many have a massive range of 'O' gauge? Not many, from the ones I've visited over the last couple of years. It's only the handful of 'big' players, which given the cost of stock isn't surprising.

 

Hornby's made a business decision that's not too dissimilar to the 'newcomers' in 'OO' which get praise (quite rightly) on this forum.

 

 

[birdseyecircus]

I don't model much OO gauge theses days but considering Hornby are OO gauge how many non modellers will get caught out trying to expand little Jimmy's train set only to find the trains don't fit the track.

 

Paul

[Chris116]

Looking at the range it is far bigger than the TT3 of the 50s and early 60s but the TT3 range was much better balanced with two Pacific locos, a 4-6-0 Castle, a 2-6-2 tank and a Jinty in steam with a Brush type 2, a DMU and an 08 on the diesel side.

[Mel_H]

4 hours ago, jonnyuk said:

given who now works for AS, surely he must of known about this. this is not something you dream up and get to market in 12 months, this is long planned.........

Anyone who has watched various video interviews with Simon Kohler over the years, will have seen that he's made a number of references to TT - especially in answer to the 'what would you really like to do but haven't' question.  

[Player of trains]

I might be about to make a fool of myself. But are the wheels on backwards on the A3 and A4, the counterweights are the same side of the wheel as the crank? they're not arranged like that on the prototype are they? rather irksome if not.