Hornby 2023 Speculation?

[Dunsignalling]

3 hours ago, Mr chapman said:

As a personal wish, the Adams radial finally produced in southern green. 

For me, it would be 30584 in plain black with BRITISH RAILWAYS on the tanks. 

 

John

Edited December 16, 2022 by Dunsignalling
i

[Robin Brasher]

1 hour ago, D400 said:

2023 Predictions? Another price increase. 

 

Bruce 

I am wondering if it is worth pre-ordering the Hornby TT:120 items now in case Hornby puts up the prices in January.

 

[Robin Brasher]

Hornby might produce 'Bristol Castle' as a Hornby Dublo locomotive as it is the 65th anniversary of when it was first made. It was an excellent model with a new type of motor and brass safety valve covers and copper topped chimney. Its brown and cream coaches brought added colour to a Hornby Dublo layout.

[Billystanier]

Loads of stuff for collectors that will never leave the box .

 

Glossy Wembley exhibition Scotsman with short tender

Wallpapered ‘Black’ 5

Furness red ‘black’ 5

King class mocked up as 6030 ‘King Charles III’

Ivatt Duchess mocked up as 46258 ‘King Charles III’

Class 50 mocked up as 50051 ‘King Charles III’

Class 87 mocked up as 87036 ‘King Charles III’

 

New tool:

Raven pacific

Class 01 or 06

Gladstone

[Markwj]

I did ask SK at Warley the date of the announcement and he told me the 9th Jan but obviously this may have changed or Simon told me wrong and its now the 10th but I did ask him specifically about the suggestion they were going to 4 announcements per year as Bachmann doo as mentioned in the latest financial report. He stated this next announcement covers the whole year.

[1andrew1]

How about a diesel or electric in the Hornby Dublo Range?

 

Perhaps the Class 55 Deltic or Class 81 Electric?

[adb968008]

I wonder if Hornby will tout a revised class 56, 50 and 31… with grills and doors no longer separate parts but tooled in ?

 

They just did this with the HST.

 

 

Edited December 16, 2022 by adb968008

[Les1952]

Trying to think inside the box-

 

Locos and stock types in Phase 5 of TT:120 identified, with running numbers for Phase 3 and maybe a little more fleshing out of Phase 4.

 

Perhaps in OO a 57xx and a Peppercorn A1, as both of these have been announced for TT:120.

 

Other than that, some identities of the locos being given the smoke treatment.  I'm not even going to attempt to guess which.

 

I'm not expecting to spend anything on Hornby OO in the next couple of years, though I'm up for anything up to 6 TT:120 J94s....

 

Les

 

[County of Yorkshire]

10 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

So all those Terriers, Pecketts (2 types), Pugs, Sentinels (2 types), Rustons (2 types), 08s, etc are "big and beautiful"?

 

It might be worth looking through the Hornby range to see what they do actually make as you seem out of the loop.

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/catalogue/train-sets-rolling-stock/locomotives?encoded=Jcs9CoAwDEDh23RzEBeX4AUc3EVK-mMtaiNpKvT2iq7f4w0HpjChbLARJ1Obsqs1HuI5zycmh0Jc9S_a1GW-mFyxoi2KD29bYCRLJ0m8fVYXBq-jg67tVSaWd4H-U2gf

 

 

Jason

Oh for goodness sake. I said let’s agree to disagree. I’m not going to comment on your aspersion that “I’m out of the loop”. 

I made the single, innocuous comment that “I don’t see black, workaday 0-6-0s as Hornby’s bag really” and you’ve pursued me across multiple posts over a 24 hour period 

 

You’re making an issue where non exists. 
 
Shall we just drop it, please? 
 

CoY 

[KGV]

3 hours ago, Billystanier said:

 

King class mocked up as 6030 ‘King Charles III’

 

 

If the GWR naming convention was followed, it would be 6027 named King Charles III.

 

This is due to 6029 King Stephen being renamed King Edward VIII in 1936; then 6028 King Henry II being renamed King George VI in 1937.

If we accept that Queen Elizabeth II would not and did not be named on a King; then the next inline to renaming would have been 6027 King Richard I.

Edited December 17, 2022 by KGV
Typo

[adb968008]

I see little plain black LNER 0-6-0’s as being on a hiding to nothing personally.

For any manufacturer. 

 

People buy one of each.

They live in bargain bins for years afterwards.

 

I suspect the LYR 0-6-0’s will do ok, due to their preservation potential (just like the SECR C class did), but after that its a woolly area….

 

Would an LNWR Cauliflower make the cut ?.. 310 of them, at least 7 different livery variations and many people might need two of them… but none are preserved, no ones seen one in 68 years ?

 

Well Maybe.. LNWR/LYR kits have been hugely popular over the years… someones keen enough to make them happen.

 

If your heading in pre-grouping alternatives, might a Claughton, or even a Bloomer be better ?… or a Dreadnought, or the tank version, perhaps as its building on a theme.

To me the future in steam is pre1923 types, and LYR/LNWR is natural fresh territory…Cardean 4-6-0 might add to the mix as Caledonian has the pretty blue effect.

its also colourful and “buildable”.. wagons exist, all manner of types to be explored and  bogie coaches with very long lives could be made.

 

its a better prospect than yet more 1950’s NE goods locos, its also better than the umpteenth retool of some 1948-1968 prototype, and maybe a more “fresh” prospect than another retool of a BR Era diesel.

if a light shines here, look at the Hattons generic thread… 182 pages, 404k reads and 4.5k posts… about a fake coach…. Its one of the most popular threads in years… whats more, several are sold out.
Dont tell me thats because no one is interested in pre1923… you dont need a degree in market research to understand those stats…some clever bogies coaches are just natural next steps.

 

But what hauls them aint little plain black goods 0-6-0’s from the far north east.

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by adb968008

[Pmorgancym]

10 hours ago, Robin Brasher said:

Hornby might produce 'Bristol Castle' as a Hornby Dublo locomotive as it is the 65th anniversary of when it was first made. It was an excellent model with a new type of motor and brass safety valve covers and copper topped chimney. Its brown and cream coaches brought added colour to a Hornby Dublo layout.

Didn't/Doesn't a Dublo Castle.hold some sort of endurance record?  Perhaps a re run of that

[Dunsignalling]

8 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I see little plain black LNER 0-6-0’s as being on a hiding to nothing personally.

For any manufacturer. 

 

People buy one of each.

They live in bargain bins for years afterwards.

 

I suspect the LYR 0-6-0’s will do ok, due to their preservation potential (just like the SECR C class did), but after that its a woolly area….

 

Would an LNWR Cauliflower make the cut ?.. 310 of them, at least 7 different livery variations and many people might need two of them… but none are preserved, no ones seen one in 68 years ?

 

Well Maybe.. LNWR/LYR kits have been hugely popular over the years… someones keen enough to make them happen.

 

 

 

If you want to sell them all without a need for "clearance" measures, the route to success with little black 0-6-0s, is no different to anything else:

 

1. Make the right quantity. If unsure whether to go plus or minus 500, go minus.
2. Don't make another batch too soon. When most versions of the first lot start going for significantly more on eBay than the new price, start thinking about it, 12 months from then should be about right!

 

Unfortunately, these are two tricks of which Hornby seemed to lose the knack, and not just with small locos. There have been signs of improvement lately, though. Either that or they are becoming more adept at releasing the leftovers slowly enough to not spook the market. 

 

I notice Hatton's regularly advertise "recent arrivals" of small quantities of things I haven't seen for a while and assumed had sold out. Probably only cartons of six at a time these days, though.  

 

John

Edited December 17, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Legend]

10 hours ago, Les1952 said:

Trying to think inside the box-

 

Locos and stock types in Phase 5 of TT:120 identified, with running numbers for Phase 3 and maybe a little more fleshing out of Phase 4.

 

Perhaps in OO a 57xx and a Peppercorn A1, as both of these have been announced for TT:120.

 

Other than that, some identities of the locos being given the smoke treatment.  I'm not even going to attempt to guess which.

 

I'm not expecting to spend anything on Hornby OO in the next couple of years, though I'm up for anything up to 6 TT:120 J94s....

 

Les

 

 I think TT:120 being dealt with completely separately, Les . This is the OO announcement I believe 

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

If you want to sell them all without a need for "clearance" measures, the route to success with little black 0-6-0s, is no different to anything else:

 

1. Make the right quantity. If unsure whether to go plus or minus 500, go minus.
2. Don't make another batch too soon. When most versions of the first lot start going for significantly more on eBay than the new price, start thinking about it, 12 months from then should be about right!

 

Unfortunately, these are two tricks of which Hornby seemed to lose the knack, and not just with small locos. There have been signs of improvement lately, though. Either that or they are becoming more adept at releasing the leftovers slowly enough to not spook the market. 

Of course the economics of the costs of doing it need to stack up too..
Which dictates the volume needed to achieve a certain price level.

 

ive two models of a Polish 2-8-2, the only rtr Polish steam prototype made so far (everything else is rebadged German) … it cost £500 as they only made 50 of each livery. Expensive, oh yes, worth it, oh yes especially as theyve never been made since and that was 10 years ago.

Anything can be tooled for a price, making it viable is a different question.

 

if economics dictates 4000.. then 4000 it is.. if only 2000 buy them, the rest twist in the wind for a decade. This is by no means a Hornby problem… the Rapido 16xx’s have been swinging for a few years, as has Bachmanns C class the common thread being little black 0-6-0’s… if those that want one have bought one, thats it… they arent consumables you dont need one a year, and if someone else makes another little black 0-6-0 your cash is going over there… 15xx is coming, anecdotes suggest a J69 is too.

But paint it Blue or Red, or Green with lining, interest seems to  jump.

Edited December 17, 2022 by adb968008

[farren]

Something L&YR would be nice, I don’t care if it’s just a break van! But something anything please for the love of god!!!! A retooling of the pug wouldn’t be unloved so it’s usable on a dcc layout. Though the Barton Wright ironclad would be a low blow as I’ve not long built the LRM kit. 

However I think the 8f has to be a a no brainier following on from the other retools of LMS stock. with the Fowler tank as an outside chance, 

[peterfgf]

16 hours ago, CazRail said:

Seen it mentioned here a few times, a Ivatt 2mt tank would be nice, especially a push-pull version. And LMS push-pull sets...

Of course it will be LMS push-pull sets now.  I've just finished putting a Comet end on a Hornby LMS 57 suburban brake (after having the etch in my stock box for about 25 years). 

It would actually be quite a good model to produce with lots of variations - I did a reasonable amount of research and as far as I can see, no two were the same: different visors, different arrangement of brake pipes, different arrangements of lighting cable, etc.

Peterfgf

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Of course the economics of the costs of doing it need to stack up too..
Which dictates the volume needed to achieve a certain price level.

 

ive two models of a Polish 2-8-2, the only rtr Polish steam prototype made so far (everything else is rebadged German) … it cost £500 as they only made 50 of each livery. Expensive, oh yes, worth it, oh yes especially as theyve never been made since and that was 10 years ago.

Anything can be tooled for a price, making it viable is a different question.

 

if economics dictates 4000.. then 4000 it is.. if only 2000 buy them, the rest twist in the wind for a decade. This is by no means a Hornby problem… the Rapido 16xx’s have been swinging for a few years, as has Bachmanns C class the common thread being little black 0-6-0’s… if those that want one have bought one, thats it… they arent consumables you dont need one a year, and if someone else makes another little black 0-6-0 your cash is going over there… 15xx is coming, anecdotes suggest a J69 is too.

But paint it Blue or Red, or Green with lining, interest seems to  jump.

 

Yes, the beauty of industrials is that they can be accommodated by simply adding a private siding or using a plausible twist of reality without having to go all; "Rule One" about things! You can also have as many as you want so long as you only use one or two at a time.

 

Of course, the right kind of small layouts can have small engines of any colour and only cause concern if types meet that shouldn't!

 

Hornby probably got the numbers pretty well right with the initial releases of the 700 and J15 then messed up by doing extra runs far too soon.

 

That wasn't confined to little black 0-6-0s though, they did the same with the GWR 8-coupled tanks, the D16, the Maunsell S15 and several more I forget. I have a wholly unintentional 72xx and one more S15 than planned thanks to the discounting that caused!

 

John

[Bulleidboy100]

16 hours ago, Markwj said:

I did ask SK at Warley the date of the announcement and he told me the 9th Jan but obviously this may have changed or Simon told me wrong and its now the 10th but I did ask him specifically about the suggestion they were going to 4 announcements per year as Bachmann doo as mentioned in the latest financial report. He stated this next announcement covers the whole year.

I think the 10th January (or a day earlier?) is correct, as Hornby Magazine (February edition) will be available to buy on the 11th January 2023 and it says will contain details of all the new 2023 releases - if you subscribe it normally arrives a day or so earlier - bet it won't in January.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Bulleidboy100

[blueeighties]

16 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I wonder if Hornby will tout a revised class 56, 50 and 31… with grills and doors no longer separate parts but tooled in ?

 

They just did this with the HST.

 

 

Why? They have lost the market now.

[Dunsignalling]

35 minutes ago, blueeighties said:

Why? They have lost the market now.

 

Mind you, if a new Hornby 50 turned out to have DCC-controlled cooling louvres, it might put a cat amongst certain pigeons....

 

[newbryford]

44 minutes ago, blueeighties said:

Why? They have lost the market now.

 

Because there are may people out there that will buy Hornby....  just because.

 

Whatever we know about it, the first name that usually crosses the lips of those on the fringes/outside of the hobby still think Hornby is the only name in town.

[TheSignalEngineer]

9 hours ago, Pmorgancym said:

Didn't/Doesn't a Dublo Castle.hold some sort of endurance record?  Perhaps a re run of that

I think it was about the actual distance from Paddington to Cadiff done non stop in four days. It may have been when the Cardiff Castle model was introduced.

[Dunsignalling]

57 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

Because there are may people out there that will buy Hornby....  just because.

 

Whatever we know about it, the first name that usually crosses the lips of those on the fringes/outside of the hobby still think Hornby is the only name in town.

 

But for that to matter, they have to buy something from Hornby.

 

Trouble is, whilst those who are aware of the alternatives might (if they haven't already ordered an alternative) almost none of the ones that remain in blissful ignorance are likely ever to spend c£250 on a model locomotive, irrespective of the name on the box.

 

Anyone who has ever walked into a model shop, opened a magazine or interrogated the web cannot but know of others and I'd suggest that anyone who has done none of those things is so far from deciding to buy anything as to be irrelevant, at least in the short term.

 

I hate to suggest it, but the one thing that does propel newcomers in the direction of Hornby is a certain Big Green Money-pit. Does Hornby have an exclusivity deal with the NRM for that, or could we see a rival emerge?

 

John

 

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[The Stationmaster]

Right - there are only two British pacific classes they haven't touched at all - the GWR and NER versions - both Pre-group so fitting that theme but if they bother I think they'll most likely do the NER version for livery appeal.   But the most likely pacific is a Rebuilt MN re-tool in my opinion.

 

The other possible steam outline re-tool is the 8F but will they bother as they haven't got the Black Five to market yet?  Will they be brave and go in for a curve ball new tooling steam outline?  I'm not sure but if they do I think Pre-Group is a good target area and will we finally get a B16?

 

Coaches - possibly a GWR restaurant vehicle and/or a full brake.   Traditional wagons - no new tooling likely in my view, the competition is getting too hot in that area so there is too much risk using money which could be more profitably spent elsewhere.

 

The big 'if' is diesels/electrics and units (DMU or EMU).  Will they grasp the opportunity and go for a Class 120 - probably the best open goal in the Modernisation lan DMU area.  A logical EMU would be a 387 - but dare they spend that much on tooling?  The curve ball is a Bulleid-Raworth 'Booster' but it could be one they steer clear of.

 

So there will be some new stuff, there will no doubt be some tooling upgrades to steam outline to get the smoke effect into more models and there will probably be a new steam outline model.

 

Anniversary wise apart from little sets using generic coaches and existing locos I see little happening but it is the centenary year for the GWR 'Castle' so we might see some new releases with upgraded (but not totally new) tooling.  and have they finished announcing all the 'Scotsman' varants?