Bachmann Autumn 2023 announcements

[Dunsignalling]

13 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Last run of Hornby T9s was about a year or two ago.

 

No Mazak rot and has the improved motor mount.

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/lswr-class-t9-4-4-0-120-era-5-r3863?yoReviewsPage=2&gclid=CjwKCAjw_aemBhBLEiwAT98FMgm-Lj5RfKgJysTMMwc6KbXyetniV8b7HziiEuQ9vnF7sJt_BUpLbRoCpTQQAvD_BwE

 

Some still left if you look around. But this is pure 1960s condition. Just needs Caledonian 123 to go with it.

 

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/66899/R3863-Hornby-Class-T9-4-4-0-Steam-Locomotive-number-120-LSWR

 

No use if you are being strict though. Only a handful had the extended smokeboxes in LSWR days and they were all wide cab/splasher versions.

 

https://sremg.org.uk/steam/t9class.shtml

 

 

 

Jason

About time too, but we shall see in three or four years time. All bar one of my other four hand one I look after for a pal have succumbed. I think my remaining black one may be on the way out, too.

 

Fitted brass replacement mounts from Peter's Spares as I couldn't get Hornby ones and probably wouldn't have been confident in them If I had. 

 

Combined with unreplaceable split gears on locos that really aren't that old, Hornby has a bit to do in restoring my trust in the brand. 

[adb968008]

1 minute ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

Combined with unreplaceable split gears on locos that really aren't that old, Hornby has a bit to do in restoring my trust in the brand. 

Many models use stock industry sizes of gears and teeth, sites like ali-express will sell you bundles of gears for models in all sizes and teeth ratios, often only for a few pounds. Its well worth a look and buying a bag or two.

[Southernman46]

At least Hornby have done the significant mould mods to now do the re-furbished 4-CEP - and much as I disliked them - (hard Tinsley wire seats, harsh lighting and that infernal constant 50Hz buzzing on the PA system that would intensify as the train approached a traction substation gap and then reduce once past it) when produced, I will Rule 1 a B&G one onto my layout. Hopefully the Jaffa liveried version will not be too striking to be irresistible.

[Legend]

11 hours ago, 33212 said:

Agree, although I'd pay £250 each for two 4 CEP's over a few months but I'm not paying £589 for one ever, they need to sell these priced as a loco and three mk1's..

 

Completely agree 33212 .  Not defending Bachmann  but someone else has pointed out the coaches are specific to the units so will have limited volume , as I don’t really know Southern emus I had assumed the intermediate coaches were similar to existing coaches . The other thing I’d point out is DCC is making this more expensive for everybody , DCC and analogue because now the units have to be through wired to accommodate just one decoder . A bit more complex than just a loco and 4 coaches - but only a bit ! 
 

Price is eye watering though and compares unfavourably with Accurascale Irish MUs 

[frobisher]

8 minutes ago, Legend said:

The other thing I’d point out is DCC is making this more expensive for everybody , DCC and analogue because now the units have to be through wired to accommodate just one decoder

 

That's nothing new.  The 4CEP has been like that right from the start, BUT it also considerably improves DC operation.

[PaulRhB]

17 minutes ago, Legend said:

The other thing I’d point out is DCC is making this more expensive for everybody ,

The other way of looking at it is that the DCC market compatibility makes it viable to make it for everyone! 😉 

DCC is probably half the market now and the majority of those want DCC installed or plug n play not to have to hardwire it so overall cheaper than a dc only version would be for half the numbers and at probably at least 30-50% more expensive. 

[zr2498]

13 hours ago, zr2498 said:

I have to agree with earlier comments about the Tyne Dock 9Fs. I know they did look rather grubby, but the factory weathering has all the hallmarks of 'factory weathering', and just too much. It's easier for customer to add to a lightly weathered version, or preferably offer a pristine version. Perhaps it is not too late for Bachmann to change the specification, after all, I doubt if the factory weathering has been applied yet. I may well write to them to make such a suggestion?

 

I have just sent a request to Bachmann Europe for a pristine sound version. 

Quick reply, but rather neutral.

The request has gone onto a suggestions database. With no committment or even 'that's a good idea', I will be going down the Hornby route. Hopefully a sound project for Tyne Dock 9F will be offfered after the Hornby release. The Bachmann project is probably a 9F but with the sound of a Westinghouse pump added to another function button.

[St. Simon]

47 minutes ago, Legend said:

because now the units have to be through wired to accommodate just one decoder .

 

Hi,

 

The 'original' 4-CEPs models were already wired for a single decoder with conductive couplings, albeit with only a couple (if that) lighting functions. Whether the refurbished 4-CEPs will have an upgrade to the lighting functions I don't know, but the blurb doesn't mention it.

 

Simon

[E100]

14 hours ago, zr2498 said:

I have to agree with earlier comments about the Tyne Dock 9Fs. I know they did look rather grubby, but the factory weathering has all the hallmarks of 'factory weathering', and just too much. It's easier for customer to add to a lightly weathered version, or preferably offer a pristine version. Perhaps it is not too late for Bachmann to change the specification, after all, I doubt if the factory weathering has been applied yet. I may well write to them to make such a suggestion?

 

I have just sent a request to Bachmann Europe for a pristine sound version. 

 

I guess a partial answer is that Hornby are doing a pristine version... ...granted no sound version but probably something an aftermarket decoder can resolve.

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/br-class-9f-2-10-0-92097-westinghouse-pumps-era-5-r30133

 

I also find it interesting that these have obviously become much more viable based on the KR Consett ore wagon release. Never say never but wouldn't be out of the question for EFE to pick these up if KR were open to that (or depending on what they actually own - looking in a class 143 direction). They also only offered pristine so I was doubly surprised no pristine version was offered.

[Southernman46]

53 minutes ago, Legend said:

but someone else has pointed out the coaches are specific to the units so will have limited volume , as I don’t really know Southern emus I had assumed the intermediate coaches were similar to existing coaches.

The difference between the un-refurb & refurb 4-CEPs was huge - the two brake vans at the unit ends were converted to passenger accommodation involving removal of the van doors and insertion of windows. The guards van was moved to centre of the TCK with alterations to door/window arrangements and the TSK converted to a TSO. The original end gangways replaced. Also every window was converted to hopper style from standard quarter lights so the mould changes have been significant ...........................

The TEP is Bachmann's attempt to use the new moulds but get the last out of the BEP buffet mould also.

I am assuming the original moulds are slide adapted ?

Edited August 3, 2023 by Southernman46

[miles73128]

51 minutes ago, Legend said:

Completely agree 33212 .  Not defending Bachmann  but someone else has pointed out the coaches are specific to the units so will have limited volume , as I don’t really know Southern emus I had assumed the intermediate coaches were similar to existing coaches . The other thing I’d point out is DCC is making this more expensive for everybody , DCC and analogue because now the units have to be through wired to accommodate just one decoder . A bit more complex than just a loco and 4 coaches - but only a bit ! 
 

Price is eye watering though and compares unfavourably with Accurascale Irish MUs 

Fair points, my concern is IF I take the plunge on a TEP @£500+ (as I would like one to go with my CEPs), I'm not going to be happy if it turns up later in a sale at £350ish?? (as the BEP has done)

[Michael Hodgson]

19 hours ago, E100 said:

Quite surprised with the Tyne Dock 9Fs that one wasn't left without any weathering. I get the rational but still odd to me.

I'm even more surprised that they are producing two factory-weathered locos (92060 & 92097) with identical weathering - I don't see 97 on this announcement, but the images show offered on the Rails web site 15% cheaper.

After all the one thing you can say about weathering is that no two are ever quite as dirty as each other.

 

I also note that if do you want an unweathered loco, the Hornby version duplicates the latter number.

[miles73128]

3 minutes ago, St. Simon said:

 

Hi,

 

The 'original' 4-CEPs models were already wired for a single decoder with conductive couplings, albeit with only a couple (if that) lighting functions. Whether the refurbished 4-CEPs will have an upgrade to the lighting functions I don't know, but the blurb doesn't mention it.

 

Simon

I think at the price it should really have the improved inter car connectors a La 4TC, but the video shows the CEP drawbar arrangement. Not great at the price!

[St. Simon]

1 minute ago, Southernman46 said:

so the mould changes have been significant ...........................

 

Hi,

 

It'll be a brand new set of tools I would have thought.

 

1 minute ago, miles73128 said:

Fair points, my concern is IF I take the plunge on a TEP @£500+ (as I would like one to go with my CEPs), I'm not going to be happy if it turns up later in a sale at £350ish?? (as the BEP has done)

 

That's capitalism, you pays your money, you take your chance.

 

Simon

[miles73128]

1 minute ago, St. Simon said:

 

Hi,

 

It'll be a brand new set of tools I would have thought.

 

 

That's capitalism, you pays your money, you take your chance.

 

Simon

Agreed! Not happy about that risk, so I think I'll sit it out

[Southernman46]

Quite frankly - I remember the days when there was no such thing as R-T-R SR EMU and now we have loads so I'm still happy to see further versions 👍

Still awaiting the blue 2-HAP please Bachmann 🤞

Edited August 3, 2023 by Southernman46

[Michael Hodgson]

14 hours ago, zr2498 said:

I have to agree with earlier comments about the Tyne Dock 9Fs. I know they did look rather grubby, but the factory weathering has all the hallmarks of 'factory weathering', and just too much. It's easier for customer to add to a lightly weathered version, or preferably offer a pristine version. Perhaps it is not too late for Bachmann to change the specification, after all, I doubt if the factory weathering has been applied yet. I may well write to them to make such a suggestion?

 

I have just sent a request to Bachmann Europe for a pristine sound version. 

I take your point, it does look a bit overdone and bit too white as I would have thought there ought to be some iron ore dust in there somewhere too, but I'll still be ordering one of the Bachmann versions. 

However with a release date of 30th September according to CMC, I rather suspect this is too far down the line for them to change it now, though perhaps a rerun may happen.

[JSpencer]

42 minutes ago, Southernman46 said:

The difference between the un-refurb & refurb 4-CEPs was huge - the two brake vans at the unit ends were converted to passenger accommodation involving removal of the van doors and insertion of windows. The guards van was moved to centre of the TCK with alterations to door/window arrangements and the TSK converted to a TSO. The original end gangways replaced. Also every window was converted to hopper style from standard quarter lights so the mould changes have been significant ...........................

The TEP is Bachmann's attempt to use the new moulds but get the last out of the BEP buffet mould also.

I am assuming the original moulds are slide adapted ?

 

Indeed, model wise it is effectively new tooling. My only disappointment with the BEP was that they missed a chance to use the better HAP electrical connections. So hopefully these will be better.

 

SWT is too recent for me, while the TEP is too short lived. But a 4-CEP in NSE would be fine. Not sure about a Jaffa (also short lived). If I am going to spend £600, it needs to be one I really want.

 

I already have 3 Hornby 4-VEPs (all blue, blue grey, NSE), so for the fresh tooling, it would probably have to be the preserved one.

[Bloodnok]

13 hours ago, 33212 said:

Agree, although I'd pay £250 each for two 4 CEP's over a few months but I'm not paying £589 for one ever, they need to sell these priced as a loco and three mk1's...

Let's take a 37 or 47, and three coaches. They want £239-£249 RRP for the loco at the moment, and even recycled Mk1 tooling from 20+ years ago is now £65 a coach. That's £434-£444.

However, that has un-lit coaches and no driving cab on the back. If we compare to a loco+3 rake with a rear end cab with head/tail lights and lit interiors throughout, that'd be a fairer comparison.

Current RRP for Mk2Fs is £99 each, and the DBSO is £149. All of a sudden the comparison price is £586-£596. That makes the 4-TEP not uniquely high priced in Bachmann's lineup -- it is in line with Bachmann's other recent releases.

We can debate whether those are also too high, but that just tells me Bachmann have higher overhead costs than say, Accurascale/IRM, KR Models, or even Auscision to point well into left-field -- all of whom have 4-car multiple units available for somewhere between half and two-thirds of the cost.
Hell, even the upcoming retooled Hornby 4-VEP looks like a pretty good deal now. I'm kinda tempted by that Southern one. I travelled on that unit quite a few times.

[The Stationmaster]

15 hours ago, GeoffBird said:

My thoughts exactly.  Now that there is this collaboration between Bachmann and Locomotion, they should (or possibly have) send someone to the Swanage Railway to measure it up.  It is in the "National Collection" so it seems a natural choice for the two aforementioned groups to make one.  Three or four versions are possible, I think,  - Adams pea-green livery with stovepipe chimney,  Drummond green livery with his chimney, and then Southern olive green livery.  Were any painted black? . I will have to check my boooks to check.

 

We have two SECR classes - D and D1; we have two LBSCR classes- H1  and H2. so why not two LSWR classes - T3 or T9.

 

 

Maybe there are some clues if your know where to look on Farcebook.

[Dunsignalling]

15 hours ago, GeoffBird said:

My thoughts exactly.  Now that there is this collaboration between Bachmann and Locomotion, they should (or possibly have) send someone to the Swanage Railway to measure it up.  It is in the "National Collection" so it seems a natural choice for the two aforementioned groups to make one.  Three or four versions are possible, I think,  - Adams pea-green livery with stovepipe chimney,  Drummond green livery with his chimney, and then Southern olive green livery.  Were any painted black? . I will have to check my boooks to check.

 

We have two SECR classes - D and D1; we have two LBSCR classes- H1  and H2. so why not two LSWR classes - T3 or T9.

 

 

 

AIUI, the NRM transferred ownership of the T3 to the Swanage Railway, and it has therefore ceased to be part of the "National Collection".

 

[GeoffBird]

1 minute ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

AIUI, the NRM transferred ownership of the T3 to the Swanage Railway, and it has therefore ceased to be part of the "National Collection".

 

But was there not a clause which allowed the NRM to take it back if certain conditions were not met (e..g. delays in the ovetrhaul).

 

As far as a manufacturer then, apart from Dapol previously mentioned, we are left with Accurascale who are doing the NRM "Buckjumper", which is quite a long way down the track and this could possibly be their THIRD steam looco, or Rapido, who do the Jones Goods, located in the Scottish transport museum, but they do have rather a lot on their plate at the moment.

 

Hopefully, all this froth will get one of them to put theeir hands up and say "its coming from us"!

[Steamport Southport]

Why would they need permission seeing as the drawings are readily available anyway?

 

They're in the Bradley books ISTR.

 

 

You don't need permission from every owner of a Black Five to make Black Fives. It's a bog standard 4-4-0 not Flying Scotsman. And I understand that only applies if you are selling merchandise relevant to FS as it is now and abusing the name, if you want to make A3s then fill your boots. Nobody is stopping you!

 

It's a bit like Lion. We got two models of it but only one could make Thunderbolt as they obtained the rights to the film and the other company didn't.

 

 

Jason

 

[The Stationmaster]

44 minutes ago, Bloodnok said:

Let's take a 37 or 47, and three coaches. They want £239-£249 RRP for the loco at the moment, and even recycled Mk1 tooling from 20+ years ago is now £65 a coach. That's £434-£444.

However, that has un-lit coaches and no driving cab on the back. If we compare to a loco+3 rake with a rear end cab with head/tail lights and lit interiors throughout, that'd be a fairer comparison.

Current RRP for Mk2Fs is £99 each, and the DBSO is £149. All of a sudden the comparison price is £586-£596. That makes the 4-TEP not uniquely high priced in Bachmann's lineup -- it is in line with Bachmann's other recent releases.

We can debate whether those are also too high, but that just tells me Bachmann have higher overhead costs than say, Accurascale/IRM, KR Models, or even Auscision to point well into left-field -- all of whom have 4-car multiple units available for somewhere between half and two-thirds of the cost.
Hell, even the upcoming retooled Hornby 4-VEP looks like a pretty good deal now. I'm kinda tempted by that Southern one. I travelled on that unit quite a few times.

Your final paragraph says it all.  Bachmann Eirope is currently a profitable company and that is what counts if they are to remain in business producing models that people will buy.  Also of course some retailers immediately apply the 15% discount Bachmann 'allow' on new releases.  So what you see as RRP is not necessarily what you will have to pay.

 

At the end of the day these are discretionary purchases which are not something it is compulsory or essential to buy.  You make your choice and you pays your money - nobody s forcing you to buy any model railway item.

 

On a more serious note just how many 57ft Mk 1 Suburbans were allocated to the WR and SR?

Edited August 3, 2023 by The Stationmaster

[Ian Hargrave]

16 hours ago, GeoffBird said:

My thoughts exactly.  Now that there is this collaboration between Bachmann and Locomotion, they should (or possibly have) send someone to the Swanage Railway to measure it up.  It is in the "National Collection" so it seems a natural choice for the two aforementioned groups to make one.  Three or four versions are possible, I think,  - Adams pea-green livery with stovepipe chimney,  Drummond green livery with his chimney, and then Southern olive green livery.  Were any painted black? . I will have to check my boooks to check.

 

We have two SECR classes - D and D1; we have two LBSCR classes- H1  and H2. so why not two LSWR classes - T3 or T9.

 

 

The “collaboration” as you put it has been in existence since the launch of Atlantic 251 in 2014 btw. Currently both Heljan & Accurascale also have commissions from Locomotion.Hornby also have done stuff as have Dapol. Fingers crossed for LSWR.