Wickham Trolley

[Dunsignalling]

Which is actually the opposite we need in model railways.

So why do people rave over the performance of Portescap motors? They are coreless.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[PhilJ W]

The book 'The Bicester Military Railway' has quite a bit of information on the military Wickham railcars including some interesting adaptions. One such is as a fire engine painted red and with a blue flashing light. Unfortunately this was of a later type than the Bachmann model but those who apply rule 1 with gusto its an idea. One idea I have is if modelling one as a fire engine is to make a rectangular water tank to fit over the trailer that could hide a DCC chip. Place things like pump and hoses on the rear seat of the railcar and even add a ladder to the roof.

[bigherb]

So why do people rave over the performance of Portescap motors? They are coreless.

They had bevel and spur gearing which lessened the effect as the inertia of the locomotive could keep turning the motor.

[No Decorum]

They had bevel and spur gearing which lessened the effect as the inertia of the locomotive could keep turning the motor.

Yes and the gearing was high-precision, with the motor and gearing provided as a single assembly. As a result, they were not subject to less-than-precise gear assemblies being attached.

[PenrithBeacon]

I think that Bachmann have probably underestimated the potential market for this product and have de-spected it down to a price as a result. Now they're being criticised because their design won't handle sound when they have encouraged the market to want sound.

 

I do wonder if they had been more adventurous in their design they could have had space for a speaker and have more weight built in so they could have omitted the traction tyres. The model may well have cost more but it would have better met the needs of their target market.

 

Regards

[Dungrange]

But, how many people are there out there who would be willing to pay at least £250+ for a Wickham Trolley (with DCC sound)?  Yes, there may be some, but I doubt the market is as big as you think.

 

I knew the Wickham Trolleys were small, but seeing the model placed alongside the Model Rail Y3 (which itself is a pretty small model) just indicates how small these models really are.  Perhaps it would be good to see a model of the Wickham sat beside a typical DCC ready socket, sound decoder and speaker just demonstrate how difficult it would be to create a DCC sound fitted version.  Personally, I think Bachmann have made the correct choice and judged the market correctly.

[cctransuk]

I think that Bachmann have probably underestimated the potential market for this product and have de-spected it down to a price as a result. Now they're being criticised because their design won't handle sound when they have encouraged the market to want sound.

 

I do wonder if they had been more adventurous in their design they could have had space for a speaker and have more weight built in so they could have omitted the traction tyres. The model may well have cost more but it would have better met the needs of their target market.

 

Regards

 

For my take on the difficulties of powering the Wickham trolley without using traction tyres - let alone trying to incorporate sound - see #2182099

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited November 3, 2016 by cctransuk

[Phil Parker]

I think that Bachmann have probably underestimated the potential market for this product and have de-spected it down to a price as a result. Now they're being criticised because their design won't handle sound when they have encouraged the market to want sound.

 

I do wonder if they had been more adventurous in their design they could have had space for a speaker and have more weight built in so they could have omitted the traction tyres. The model may well have cost more but it would have better met the needs of their target market.

 

Regards

 

Considering all the moans that the trailer exists at all earlier on this thread, I can't see why anyone would want an even bigger load on the back of it to contain extra weight, speakers and chips. You'd end up with something as big as the railcar itself!

 

What they have done is take a very tiny and therefore difficult to model prototype and produced a model that can be mass produced. All the issue mentioned are down to problems created by the tiny prototype that is mostly open.

 

I'm sure that a seriously keen and skilled engineer could produce a one-off model fitted with micro-motor, without trailer and running on DCC with the chip embeded in a custom made driver (although one on here has and struggled which tells just how hard the task is). On track with glass-like smoothness, the model would probably run OK for short periods. Trouble is, what the market demands is something able to thrash around a normal layout with averagely laid track and at a price we are willing to pay. That means compromise and lot of it. If the compromises are acceptable to the person paying for the model than great. If not then they have to wait for a future version from another source.

 

My guess is that the coreless motor is just such a compromise. A small unit allows space for more weight. Use a normal motor and you lose a few grammes over the driven wheels.

 

Traction tyres are another. Bachmann wouldn't have tooled up for grooved wheels if they could have got away without them. As it was, the designers found that tyres were the only practical solution to make the thing run as well as it does. Maybe there was an alternative (huge trailer load?) but they decided that this compromise worked better.

 

Bachmann are being criticised because they made a Wickham Trolley. If they hadn't, there might be a few wistful posts along the lines of "wouldn't a Wickham be nice" but nothing else.

[paul 27]

You have to remove high-frequency track cleaners, if you have any, to avoid damage to the motors. They are incompatible with feedback controllers as well. For what it’s worth, I have found certain models fitted with them do not run well but that could be because of something other than the motor.

 

I have a Gaugemaster Feedback Controller so this model wont run with this without burning out the motor.

Edited November 3, 2016 by paul 27

[Phil Parker]

I have a Gaugemaster Feedback Controller so this model wont run with this without burning out the motor.

 

I haven't fried the Portescap in my 07 diesel despite many hours service over the last 20 years powered by my Guagemaster handheld with feedback. It makes a bit of a whine but so far is fine. Your milage may vary of course.

[bacon butty]

Is there any chance that one of you helpful guys could post a photo of the under side of the trailer load - it will help figuring out what needs to be removed to try to install a decoder.

 

I'm waiting now for the maroon one so I'll have to be patient...

 

Many thanks for any photos posted - and thanks to anyone who's posted other photos in the last day or so to help with how small the trolley is.

 

Stuart

[Bernard Lamb]

Can anyone explain what the opposition is to a coreless motor?

In a nutshell?

Too many moaning Luddites in the UK.

A major German company introduced them around 1991 and AFAIK never had people comment let alone complain.

A major German after market parts supplier and kit producer brought out a one axle very small drive unit that looks very similar to the Bachmann version many years ago.

Mind you the last price I saw was around 135 euros.

Bachmann have made a bold step at a time of great uncertainty in introducing an unusual prototype at a realistic price.

I do not see any signs of compromise, rather a conscious decision as to the chosen route.

More power to their elbow.

If they decide not to repeat the adventure I would not blame them.

I presume that they had in the back of their minds further uses for the drive mechanism rather like they did when they introduced the Standard DMU.

Bernard

 .

[SHMD]

I wanty want super doofer woofer speakers, radio controlled DCC compatible decoder, ancient technology motor (for back wards compatibility for those wanting to throw away the ((not)) so expensive electronics), and Long life contactless rechargeable batteries in my trolly for that price AND one of the "major manufacturers" should be made to give us this!       

 

After all, all of these have been successfully been fitted to my Deltic, P2 - and A4!!  

 

 

 

..and I'm not just "avin a go". I've come up with a way to do it too. Here's the prototype.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

It will have to go as a load on the trailer but you could try and hide it by surrounding it in fat blocks with flat caps on (with, or without, orange bibs!).    

 

 

 

Kev.

(wibble)

 

 

[John M Upton]

I for one am glad that there is no DCC gubbins as it means I am not shelling out for unnecessary bits I do not need or want.  Personally I do not wish to have anything to do with DCC simply because the money saved on buying decoder chips etc can be put to better use increasing locos and rolling stock.

[Phil Parker]

If anyone needs a drawing of a railcar, trailer, storage sheds or the length of track used for railing the thing, November 1969 Railway Modeller is for you.

[Stubby47]

If anyone needs a drawing of a railcar, trailer, storage sheds or the length of track used for railing the thing, November 1969 Railway Modeller is for you.

Is that 00 track ?

 

Has anyone enquired whether the trolley can be EM'd or P4'd ?

[Dunsignalling]

I think that Bachmann have probably underestimated the potential market for this product and have de-spected it down to a price as a result. Now they're being criticised because their design won't handle sound when they have encouraged the market to want sound.

 

I do wonder if they had been more adventurous in their design they could have had space for a speaker and have more weight built in so they could have omitted the traction tyres. The model may well have cost more but it would have better met the needs of their target market.

 

Regards

I think that depends on whether their target market is the same one you think it is.

 

Bear in mind though, that you or I can substitute lead for the standard weight - that wouldn't be permitted in a commercial product. Even so, I seriously doubt it's possible to add enough extra heft to permit it to run as well as it does if the traction tyres were deleted. Also, adding a speaker reduces weight because what you leave out to make room for it will have been heavier than what you put in.

 

Bachmann have another problem in that, as a "full range" supplier, everything they make has to run reliably on their own brand of train-set track.  

 

They have already had to make the trailer sides a millimetre or two higher than they should be to get everything in and then add a pretty serious dummy load to hide it all.

 

If you really wanted DCC sound in a r-t-r Wickham trolley, it would probably be cheaper to do it in 7mm scale. If they had done it in OO, I suspect the price would have made it Bachmann's most expensive piece of motive power after the Blue Pullman. 

 

If you are really that keen, I don't doubt that some clever soul will eventually offer to add it for you, but I'd not be at all surprised if the work were to cost twice what Bachmann are asking for the model itself. 

 

John

Edited November 3, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[Dunsignalling]

Is that 00 track ?

 

Has anyone enquired whether the trolley can be EM'd or P4'd ?

I doubt it's been out long enough for anyone to have tried yet.

 

John

[BG John]

Has anyone enquired whether the trolley can be EM'd or P4'd ?

I would, but the only layout I'm building that's the right period for it is OO anyway!

 

I was thinking today that if I seriously wanted a Wickham Trolley, I'd build the layout with track running under the baseboard, and have a loco with a powerful magnet to pull an unpowered trolley along. I'd only buy the Bachmann one for a bit of fun, and stick St Trinians characters or caricatures of BR track workers in it!

[Phil Parker]

Is that 00 track ?

 

Has anyone enquired whether the trolley can be EM'd or P4'd ?

 

Andy and I had a good look when playing with the samples at Peterborough. The problem is that the fronts of the wheels are very close (within 1mm each side) to the running boards. Pulling the wheels out for EM would need some of the plastic trimming away, but as they are also behind the supports, this is going to be tricky.

 

Replacing the wheels would be an option if anyone ever produces a set that look like the distinctive dished with holes pattern. However, I think the OO versions had to be made slightly overscale to reliably traverse pointwork without falling in the crossings. P4 modellers might not have a problem with perfect replacement wheels as their standards are so tight, but EM is likely to require a bit of development. Yet again, blame the tiny wheeled prototype!

 

Having said this, Mr York is looking at EM for BCB so watch this space.

[phil gollin]

.

 

As the model is so "pretty", I wonder whether Bachmann might be persuaded to produce a dummy version with an empty trailer ?

 

.

[MarkSG]

If anyone needs a drawing of a railcar, trailer, storage sheds or the length of track used for railing the thing, November 1969 Railway Modeller is for you.

 

Although obtaining a copy relies on having either a time machine or a particularly lucky strike on a second hand mag stall at your local exhibition

[Phil Parker]

Although obtaining a copy relies on having either a time machine or a particularly lucky strike on a second hand mag stall at your local exhibition

 

Or joining a model railway club with a respectable library of back numbers. Works for me! :-)

[Phil Parker]

.

 

As the model is so "pretty", I wonder whether Bachmann might be persuaded to produce a dummy version with an empty trailer ?

 

.

 

You'd save the cost of a motor and circuit board but have to cover the tooling of a new trailer body. Overall, you probably wouldn't save very much money.

 

If a static model that looks good is your aim, head to N Brass models: http://www.nbrasslocos.co.uk/ooloco.html

[cctransuk]

If anyone needs a drawing of a railcar, trailer, storage sheds or the length of track used for railing the thing, November 1969 Railway Modeller is for you.

 

So there is !!!

 

...... and a photo of the Evercreech Junction trolley B8W !!! I was wondering how to find out the correct number for the one that worked from EJ.

 

The drawing of the trailer will mean that I can check what liberties Bachmann have (necessarily) taken to get the motor in.

 

As I have the unpowered etched trolley and a different syle of trailer, I rather fancy a double-header with two trailers.

 

Thanks,

John.