Dave F's photos - ongoing - more added each day

[RANGERS]

Enlarged it as far as I can and I'd say it was in the train.

 

The train itself is interesting in more ways than one. Being tube wagons heading South, fair to assume they were empties heading for Corby, in which case the 31 at the head is a rarity although not unknown. 

 

It wasn't unknown for Leicester 08s to be switched between locations in freight trains, they were known to travel between Leicester, Lloyds, Corby sidings and Wellingborough in the consist of the local trips 9T06/ 9T26/ 9T27 from time to time, particularly if they had to be moved during the day often as a result of one failing somewhere (they were mostly moved overnight if being swapped over routinely running under their own power). None of this explains why it's heading to Corby, if indeed it was.

 

My only guess with this one is it's returning back to it's patch after some serious attention at Derby or maybe wheel turning at Toton? Why it's in a train to Corby, and more critically why it's in the middle of the train is anyones guess but it may be that the train is running via Leicester Bell Lane where the 08 would be dropped and the loco changed.

[Clive Mortimore]

I am in the "In the train" team. The left hand front buffer cannot be seen, if in front of the train it would be on show. If in front of the train the wagon behind it is not a tube but one that is the same length as the shunter, and by coincidence is directly behind the shunter. if you carefully the wagon buffers line up with those of the shunter. Very odd though. 

[Phil Bullock]

My train of thought entirely Clive!

 

Phil

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Clive,

I think your judgement is clouded by the lack of OHLE..........

[31A]

Perhaps the 08 was unbraked, and the Tubes had been put in front of it to provide a fitted head?

Edited October 16, 2016 by 31A

[hmrspaul]

It does look like one.

 

Perhaps someone who knows about freight stock will be able to tell us exactly what it is.

 

David

This is probably DM707011 a frequently photographed Rorail tank wagon that had its wheels removed and resided at Burton for many years http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsbeer/ed8130b5  http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsbeer/e2e90c097

 

Paul

[Clive Mortimore]

Apologies but I think you are a week too early. On 3 September 1976 the largest outbreak of Colorado beetle since 1947 was found in Thanet and the weather held for another couple of days. Then 1976 became one of the wettest years on record, it rained and rained and rained!. Yes I was there! [and got a promotion out of it as well as doing a live Pebble Mill at one after hardly sleeping for 48 hours]

 

Paul

Hi Paul

 

That was the year the government appointed a minister for drought and it rained the day after.

 

Up until it rained I had been on two exercises on Salisbury Plain, not with my own unit. One was an infantry unit where we played enemy and must have marched across the plain four or five times in all that heat. The other I was sent to help the unit gun fitter replace a barrel of a Chieftain tank, in full Nuclear, Biological and Chemical gear. Unlike most tanks whose gun barrel comes out the front of the turret, the Chieftain's comes out the back, so it is a near strip down of the turret interior to change the barrel. We didn't even change it we just put it back once we got it out. When I took my noddy suit off my whole body was prune like and there must have been a pint of sweat in each boot.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Going back to that Class 08 problem, the juxtaposition between the shunter and the wagon "in front" just doesn't look right for the loco to be in that train consist. There should be a tad more space between loco and wagon if they're in the same train.

[Phil Bullock]

That was what prompted me to look critically at the picture. Goes to show how tricky the aspect is if several of us have looked at it and cant agree

 

Phil

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Great minds think differently Phil.......................  

[DaveF]

The notes in my slide catalogue suggest it was in the train.

 

I have enlarged the scan so you can see as much as I can see, reproduced below.  Click on the image to enlarge it further.

 

If the 08 is not in the train then the gap between the two wagons behind the loco is not long enough for it to be another tube wagon - you will need a ruler against the screen to check that though.   In that case what wagon would be exactly the right length to fit behind the loco and leave the ends of both tube wagons visible.

 

 

I know it is a very long time ago but I am inclined to believe my notes.

 

David

Edited October 16, 2016 by DaveF

[Phil Bullock]

Thanks Dave....I think its the fact that the end of the tube wagon in front of the 08 aligns perfectly with the front of the 08 that causes the perspective issues.

 

But the buffer of the tube in front of the 08 is much more clear in this scan and seems to appear in front of the buffer beam of the 08....which would seem to agree with your caption ....thanks for sorting!

 

Phil

[russ p]

You seem to be able to see more of the front of the 350 than you would expect if it were in a train

[Phil Bullock]

OK - its too late to get things out for photos tonight.....who will be first with a recreation tomorrow?

 

Phil

 

[SHMD]

I'm having a big row with myself about this one so I'll spare you all the bickering...

 

 

Kev.

[david58041]

The enlarged photo of the 08 shows it has its connecting rods intact.  Weren't these removed when locos were moved in a train?  Does this mean the loco is on another track in front of the freight train. 

 

David

[talisman56]

Apologies but I think you are a week too early. On 3 September 1976 the largest outbreak of Colorado beetle since 1947 was found in Thanet and the weather held for another couple of days. Then 1976 became one of the wettest years on record, it rained and rained and rained!. Yes I was there! [and got a promotion out of it as well as doing a live Pebble Mill at one after hardly sleeping for 48 hours]

 

Paul

 

It may well have been early September - it is 40 years ago and the memory retrieval system isn't what it once was...

[30851]

 

 

If the 08 is not in the train then the gap between the two wagons behind the loco is not long enough for it to be another tube wagon - you will need a ruler against the screen to check that though.   In that case what wagon would be exactly the right length to fit behind the loco and leave the ends of both tube wagons visible.

 

 

 

My 'guess' is that the 08 is on a different line with the last wagon on the left being on the same line so part of the 08's train and not part of the 31's train. Having no clue when these wagons started to be used in departmental service - is it possible that these are two works trains waiting to go somewhere?

 

Rob

[Enterprisingwestern]

FWIW. The perspective looks all wrong. The jocko isn't in the train, the wagon supposedly in front of it doesn't block off the front LH corner as does the wagon next door but one, and the buffers don't line up. The jocko just happens to be shunting the same sort of wagon, could it have come down from Toton to shunt out a defective wagon from the Brush 2's train.

 

Mike.

[DerekEm8]

This is probably DM707011 a frequently photographed Rorail tank wagon that had its wheels removed and resided at Burton for many years http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsbeer/ed8130b5  http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsbeer/e2e90c097

 

 

 

Finished up at Coalville depot as  ADM 7071111

 

 

Edited October 17, 2016 by DerekEm8

[DaveF]

FWIW. The perspective looks all wrong. The jocko isn't in the train, the wagon supposedly in front of it doesn't block off the front LH corner as does the wagon next door but one, and the buffers don't line up. The jocko just happens to be shunting the same sort of wagon, could it have come down from Toton to shunt out a defective wagon from the Brush 2's train.

 

Mike.

 

 

Mike,

 

I agree it does not look right,  I was going from my notes made on the day I took the photo and later transcribed into my slide catalogue when I wrote the caption.  However, I do accept I could have written down the wrong thing.  If the 08 is not in the train then what wagon is behind it which is shorter than the tubes?

 

We are looking at the Midland Main line, so the 08 is not shunting.  The 31 did not have a problem with its train, it was proceeding southwards as normal and went over the bridge and into the tunnel (Redhill) south of the Trent.  As far as I remember there are no points/crossovers just there, so it couldn't have been doing anything to the train.  Also, as usual on the MML in those days there was a procession of up and down freights while I was there. - see post below - sorry - multi quote refused to cooperate this morning when I was doing these replies.

 

David

Edited October 17, 2016 by DaveF

[DaveF]

My 'guess' is that the 08 is on a different line with the last wagon on the left being on the same line so part of the 08's train and not part of the 31's train. Having no clue when these wagons started to be used in departmental service - is it possible that these are two works trains waiting to go somewhere?

 

Rob

 

Rob,

 

Many thanks for your suggestion, but the 31 was not on a pw train, it was heading south on the main line (on the goods lines as it is 4 track).

 

A few minutes later I took the picture below the 31 of the 37 heading north.  In the hour or so I was there I took 6 photos of freights using the goods lines.

 

I suspect it will have to remain a bit of a mystery, as I mentioned in my previous reply to Enterprising Western the loco looks "wrong", even though my notes say it is "right".

 

If I was looking at someone else's photo of the same scene I'd be wondering what was going on too.

 

Perhaps someone needs to set up a model and photograph it!

 

Slightly annoyingly I was staying at my parents when I took the photo, house sitting for them as they were in Scotland, so I hadn't been able to persuade Dad to come out with me to take photos at the same time, so I don't have his version to look at.

 

David

[woodenhead]

Where's Doctor Who and his Tardis when you need him!!

[HillsideDepot]

I don't know if this helps at all (I'm as curious as anyone, seeing both arguments as I look again and again at the original)?

 

 

It's a Parkside Tube, and a Hornby 08 (with a Parkside Pipe behind as I only have one Tube), so if there are known discrepancies in those models we'll not get the same effect, but I have tried to get the angle correct to the original, with the far side of the 08's bonnet being vertically in line with the near corner of the Tube.  

[Poor Old Bruce]

The enlarged photo of the 08 shows it has its connecting rods intact.  Weren't these removed when locos were moved in a train?  Does this mean the loco is on another track in front of the freight train. 

 

David

 

(Pedant mode on)

 

Sorry David but you must have X-ray vision or better to see the connecting rods of the 08 as they are inside the power unit inside the body   . What the rest of us can see are the coupling rods.

 

(pedant mode off)

 

To move an 08 in a train you would certainly have to de-mesh the gears, not sure about removing the rods though. If it wasn't going far, it may have been easier to send it LE (Loughborough to Derby perhaps).