Dave F's photos - ongoing - more added each day

[DaveF]

 

 

 

This post may mystify some (or even all) of you.

 

I was reading Poor Old Bruce's post and pressed "Reply quoting this post" by mistake.  It happens sometimes when I am using a graphics tablet and pen and don't concentrate enough.

 

David

Edited October 17, 2016 by DaveF

[jonny777]

Apologies but I think you are a week too early. On 3 September 1976 the largest outbreak of Colorado beetle since 1947 was found in Thanet and the weather held for another couple of days. Then 1976 became one of the wettest years on record, it rained and rained and rained!. Yes I was there! [and got a promotion out of it as well as doing a live Pebble Mill at one after hardly sleeping for 48 hours]

 

Paul

 

 

No, I can't agree.

 

It might be true for a few isolated parts of GB ( I can't speak for Thanet because at the time I was living in Buckinghamshire), but for the vast majority of the population the weather broke over the August Bank Holiday weekend. This was Sat 28th to Mon 30th, and the heavy thunderstorms moved north.

 

To illustrate this, here are archived isobaric charts from that weekend.

 

 

 

 

Apologies for the German titles, but I have that site bookmarked and it is the easiest for me to find.

 

I lived in a flat overlooking playing fields, and the thundery monsoon was so heavy on either the Sat or Sun night, that when I woke up the following morning, the flood water was such that I could just see the crossbars on the goal posts sticking out of the water.

[DaveF]

Many thanks for all the comments about the 08 in yesterday's photos.  

 

Sadly my Tardis is an early model which does not allow me to go back to a place and time I've already visited so I can't go back and check exactly what I photographed.

 

Now for today's photos.

Essex in the 1970s this afternoon for some more photos on the Great Eastern Main Line.

 

 

Church Lane level crossing Class 309 309607 up ex pass March 75 C1902

 

 

Church Lane Crossing Class 47 up freight Oct 78 C4178

 

 

Church Lane Crossing Class 47 Liverpool St to Norwich July 79 C4600

 

 

Boreham 47170 up l e Jan 79 C4281

 

 

Boreham 47069 up Jan 79 C4282

 

 

David

[caradoc]

If the 08 was not in the 31's train, it must have been running light; Would such a thing have been done during the day, given the 08's maximum speed of 15mph ? Personally, I am inclined to agree that the 08 was in the 31's train; Although it does look a bit odd, this is just a feature of the relative angle of loco and wagons at the instant the photo was taken.  

[Fat Controller]

08s did run light, or as trip engines, even though they did eat paths; I think they may have been a bit more sprightly at the time, with a maximum speed of 19 or 20 mph. They had a regular turn along the main-line to Fishguard, taking trainloads of 4" billet from Duport's plant in the western part of Llanelli to Llandeilo Jct yard, some three miles further east; another turn was a booked working, mid-afternoon, from Burry Port to Llandeilo Jct, picking up lineside scrap and topping up ballast boxes. Doubtless such workings were to be found around the network. The one in the photo may have been collecting 'cripples' from the nearby Castle Donnington power-station, the one at Ratcliffe-on-Soar or one of the other local terminals. Such workings were commonplace then, and are even to be found today, with the Milford sidings to Ferrybridge working. Don't forget that passenger services on the MML were considerably more sparse in 1976; perhaps a couple of fast trains per hour for most of the day.

Looking at a recent Quail, I would suggest that the 31 with the Tube wagons is on the Up Goods, whilst the 08 is on the West Curve between Trent West and Trent South Junctions, waiting to join the Up Fast. The layout at Trent is horribly complicated even now, after two resignallings; it would have been even more complicated when the photo was taken.

The 31 is almost certainly on a Toton to Corby working, not a Departmental one. Vac-fitted Tubes were far too precious to find widespread use in Departmental service in 1976- I think the first widespread transfers would be another decade in the future, when large numbers became 'Cod' concrete sleeper carriers. S&L had hundreds allocated to tube traffic from Corby.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Beighton Junction to Stavely empties at Killamarsh LMR, quite a run.

 

Mike.

[Fat Controller]

1-MW-754.jpg

 

Beighton Junction to Stavely empties at Killamarsh LMR, quite a run.

 

Mike.

Hope they packed sandwiches and a flask.

[Market65]

Hi, Dave. I like the photos of the GEML. In C4600, there is such a classic view of a class 47 hauled express passenger train. The 47, 47170, in C4281, looks like a scale model at the height and angle it was photographed from.

And that 08 is in the the train, for the buffers at the radiator end of the engine are not visible in the manner that they would be if it was not in the train, but working a train of its own heading radiator end first. I hope that helps.

 

With warmest regards,

 

Rob

[leopardml2341]

I'm sure I'll be branded a Philistine for this, but I quite like the earlier pics of the VoR tanks in banger blue.

Edited October 18, 2016 by leopardml2341

[robertcwp]

Many thanks for all the comments about the 08 in yesterday's photos.  

 

Sadly my Tardis is an early model which does not allow me to go back to a place and time I've already visited so I can't go back and check exactly what I photographed.

 

Now for today's photos.

 

 

Church Lane Crossing Class 47 Liverpool St to Norwich July 79 C4600.jpg

Church Lane Crossing Class 47 Liverpool St to Norwich July 79 C4600

 

 

 

 

 

David

Mark 2c BSO leading the formation - not a common type on the GE.

[russ p]

08s have been 15mph since the 70s that didn't stop them from long light engine runs in BR days. I've worked one from York to Thornaby which was one of the most tedious shifts I've ever done

They did a few trips on Teesside with trains such as port Clarence and Hartlepool docks.

The ironic thing about the Hartlepool one was the TOPS list used to say ' has sufficient brake force to run class 4, reinput leaving maximum speed field blank!'

[Phil Bullock]

And they used to run light from Gloucester up to Worcester ... you always knew when one was coming because you were waiting so long for it to appear!

 

So heres my attempt to lay the discussion to bed with a Bacchy gronk and 3 tube wagons...

 

Awful light I know but its pretty plain which one is in the train and which one isn't...

 

 

 

Just look at the alignment of the wagons - as has already been said, a gronk doesn't hide a tube wagon...and with the loco in the train the visibility of the end stanchions on the wagon behind the loco is exactly as in Daves photo...

 

To paraphrase Sir Robert Mark...I am convinced this represents...well, probably as near as we will get!

 

Phil

 

 

[russ p]

To be honest I'm starting to be converted but why would it be in a train?

[Davexoc]

(Pedant mode on)

 

Sorry David but you must have X-ray vision or better to see the connecting rods of the 08 as they are inside the power unit inside the body   . What the rest of us can see are the coupling rods.

 

(pedant mode off)

 

To move an 08 in a train you would certainly have to de-mesh the gears, not sure about removing the rods though. If it wasn't going far, it may have been easier to send it LE (Loughborough to Derby perhaps).

I have to agree that I think if the 08 was in the train it would have had the rods removed. Not sure the cranks would still be any good when you arrived at the destination.

Dave

[35A]

I can confirm that 08s were definitely, on occasions, moved by train, back in the days before their restricted speed caused the switch to road transport. However, it was certainly normal practise to remove the coupling rods, which (I believe) increased their maximum movement speed.

 

On more than one occasion during the 1970s I saw 8E12, the class 44-hauled Toton to Whitemoor coal train, with an 08 in the formation, as is being disputed here. Sadly I don't have any photographs. If I trawl my Excel spreadsheets I can probably find an example or two. I would guess that this was when shunters that had been overhauled at Derby were being returned or on transfer to East Anglia. 8E12 was a very leisurely-paced train whenever and wherever I saw it, the occasions that it had an 08 in the formation it was not running significantly late - of course, in the days before Real Time Trains I couldn't confirm that it didn't make an early start from Toton!

 

Given that, I wouldn't be surprised if this was an ex-Derby move back to base, perhaps. It does seem unusual, though, for the coupling rods to still be in situ. Loughborough had an 08 or 10 most of the time, it might have been heading back there, in train - or being returned to Leicester. Maybe, on this occasion, running at 15mph with the rods on was not an issue, given the distance and the presence of relief lines?

[david.hill64]

Just to add my thoughts on the 'is it in or is it out' debate.

 

If you look at the wagon behind the 08 there is clear daylight under the buffers: no sign of any train behind. So if we have a photo of a train hauled by an 08 overtaking a train hauled by the 31(!) then the end of the 31's train must be behind the 08. Too much of a coincidence?

 

I think the 08 must be in the train.

[eastwestdivide]

Chipping in on the 08 story - even into the early 1980s, those goods lines between Leicester/Trent had long stretches restricted to 20mph in any case, as I found out as a passenger one Sunday with engineering work. The long times in the timetable led me to think "interesting diversion", but in fact we just trundled along the goods lines.

[RANGERS]

I can confirm that 08s were definitely, on occasions, moved by train, back in the days before their restricted speed caused the switch to road transport. However, it was certainly normal practise to remove the coupling rods, which (I believe) increased their maximum movement speed.

 

On more than one occasion during the 1970s I saw 8E12, the class 44-hauled Toton to Whitemoor coal train, with an 08 in the formation, as is being disputed here. Sadly I don't have any photographs. If I trawl my Excel spreadsheets I can probably find an example or two. I would guess that this was when shunters that had been overhauled at Derby were being returned or on transfer to East Anglia. 8E12 was a very leisurely-paced train whenever and wherever I saw it, the occasions that it had an 08 in the formation it was not running significantly late - of course, in the days before Real Time Trains I couldn't confirm that it didn't make an early start from Toton!

 

Given that, I wouldn't be surprised if this was an ex-Derby move back to base, perhaps. It does seem unusual, though, for the coupling rods to still be in situ. Loughborough had an 08 or 10 most of the time, it might have been heading back there, in train - or being returned to Leicester. Maybe, on this occasion, running at 15mph with the rods on was not an issue, given the distance and the presence of relief lines?

 

 

The shunter at Loughborough was a class 10 owned by ARC. I never saw it but I believe that an 08 was hired in from BR when it was unavailable.

 

When 08s were transferred in the trips between Lloyds, Corby and Wellingborough, they were run with the rods in situ, as the trips all ran unfitted, they really were slow trains so for the relatively short distances, it didn't seem to be an issue. 

[Enterprisingwestern]

The shunter at Loughborough was a class 10 owned by ARC. I never saw it but I believe that an 08 was hired in from BR when it was unavailable.

 

 

D3101 ISTR.

 

Mike.

[stovepipe]

Regarding the class 08 in the train - here is another example of one being transported with rods on in a pw train. Half way down the page.

 

http://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/GRONKS.htm

 

and another one

https://www.flickr.com/photos/duke_of_milan/6950653940/

Edited October 18, 2016 by stovepipe

[Swindon 123]

The shunter at Loughborough was a class 10 owned by ARC. I never saw it but I believe that an 08 was hired in from BR when it was unavailable.

 

 

D3101 was a standard class 08. It was one of the batch D3092 to D3101 that when built they where not fitted with vacuum brake. The whole batch where withdrawn in 1972, because of that as I have no record of them being vac fitted. D3092/4/8,3100 of this batch where overhauled at Derby and exported to the Lamco Rly in Liberia for use out there.

 

Paul J.

 

Edited to correct silly transposition of loco numbers.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Swindon 123

[Fat Controller]

Regarding the class 08 in the train - here is another example of one being transported with rods on in a pw train. Half way down the page.

 

http://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/GRONKS.htm

08s, and the 5 WR PWMs, were often to be formed in PW trains; on arrival at site, they would be used to move a portion of the train around (for instance, one of the non-self-propelled cranes), whilst the train engines took the other portion elsewhere on the possession. We use a similar system on the Channel Tunnel; each works train is divided into several sections, headed by a Schoma, the whole train being moved by a pair of 'Krupps'. At the end of the works, the individual portions move off towards the 'Krupps' and the portions are coupled up, the Schomas are put into 'Neutral', and the whole lot heads out. Fascinating to watch all this occur on the mimic display.

[jonny777]

I can confirm that 08s were definitely, on occasions, moved by train, back in the days before their restricted speed caused the switch to road transport. However, it was certainly normal practise to remove the coupling rods, which (I believe) increased their maximum movement speed.

 

On more than one occasion during the 1970s I saw 8E12, the class 44-hauled Toton to Whitemoor coal train, with an 08 in the formation, as is being disputed here. Sadly I don't have any photographs. If I trawl my Excel spreadsheets I can probably find an example or two. I would guess that this was when shunters that had been overhauled at Derby were being returned or on transfer to East Anglia. 8E12 was a very leisurely-paced train whenever and wherever I saw it, the occasions that it had an 08 in the formation it was not running significantly late - of course, in the days before Real Time Trains I couldn't confirm that it didn't make an early start from Toton!

 

Given that, I wouldn't be surprised if this was an ex-Derby move back to base, perhaps. It does seem unusual, though, for the coupling rods to still be in situ. Loughborough had an 08 or 10 most of the time, it might have been heading back there, in train - or being returned to Leicester. Maybe, on this occasion, running at 15mph with the rods on was not an issue, given the distance and the presence of relief lines?

 

 

Yes, I used to see the occasional shunter in the Toton - Whitemoor freight trains along the GN&GE. I have been skimming through my notes but as I have no idea of the dates to look under, it is a rather laborious task.

 

The only one I have found so far is D3486 behind D6818 on 25th February 1967.

[DaveF]

Today's photos are all Dad's, all of railways but not many trains.

 

In the late 60s and early 70s, when I had moved to Manchester, he and Mum often packed a picnic on Saturdays and went for a drive taking photos of anything interesting on the way.  As regular readers of the thread know Mum also likes railways, so she was always always happy to go with him.

 

The ones below were taken on such a trip one Saturday (or perhaps over two weekends) in May 1969.

 

 

Seaton girder bridge across B672 LNWR Rugby to Peterborough line May 69 J1663

 

 

Seaton LNWR May 69 J1666

 

 

Seaton LNWR Uppingham branch bay on left May 69 J1667

 

 

East Langton Class 20s D8141 and D8013 down freight May 69 J1689

 

 

Lutterworth GCR bridge over A4114 May 69 J1692  The Cortina was Dad's car at the time.

 

 

David

Edited October 18, 2016 by DaveF

[highpeakman]

You have done it again in bringing back memories.

 

This time it was often waiting at Rockingham Station level crossing for the branch train from Rugby whilst travelling south on family visits in the early 60s. Small Ivatts and a couple of suburban coaches - wonderful.

 

Rockingham was the next station to Seaton although it was actually only just outside, and much closer to Caldecott, than Rockingham itself. 

 

Thanks yet again.

 

Re the 08 - I was at first convinced it was not in the train but, the more I look at the picture and also at some of the simulations, I have now changed my mind and agree that it is in the train itself.