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[31A]

I don't think the sidings coming under the bridge looks too odd, I'm sure there must have been places where something similar happened.  Perhaps the bridge would have more impact as a scenic break if it were to be of the truss girder type like outside Liverpool Street, which would make the structure taller than the more usual kind of girder bridge?

[Clive Mortimore]

I don't think the sidings coming under the bridge looks too odd, I'm sure there must have been places where something similar happened.  Perhaps the bridge would have more impact as a scenic break if it were to be of the truss girder type like outside Liverpool Street, which would make the structure taller than the more usual kind of girder bridge?

Hi Steve

 

Thanks. I like the idea of a trust girder bridge along the long bridge, perhaps a pair with only one support in the middle to allow more road vehicle access to the wagons for loading and unloading with a brick or stone bridge over the L&YR line.  A trust girder bridge would be taller but not over powering as it would be open framed.

 

Something like this.

[31A]

Yes exactly, this kind of thing (i'm sure you're familiar with it):

 

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2243249

 

When finished with more girder work and parapet fencing etc. it would become more of a view blocker.

 

I managed to get one of these second hand unmade at the Wakefield show a few years ago, with a view to using it for such a purpose:

 

https://www.walthers.com/double-track-truss-bridge-kit-15-x-5-x-4-1-4-quot-37-5-x-12-5-x-10-6cm-vert-2-7-8-quot-track-centers-2-3

 

Obviously there are other ways of making girder bridges!

[john new]

Hi Clive.

 

Your call and girder bridges over station throats existed (Paddington and York for just two). I preferred your flat style mock up as they are so much more common, a Yorkshire prototype would be the bridge(s) over the approaches to Bradford Forster Sq with all the goods sidings. Further away, but one I used to stand on to watch trains from, was across the approaches to the former Southampton Terminus Station throat. They differed in construction but both spanned several tracks.

Edited October 13, 2018 by john new

[westerner]

I like the look of the girder bridge.

[Zomboid]

I think a big bowstring girder would look best, as the single span would make sense with the goods sidings. Having a series of small bridges over the sidings feels like they'd probably have finished the sidings short of the road and not bothered.

 

The downside would be that it wouldn't actually block the view underneath it particularly well

[Ravenser]

I think a big bowstring girder would look best, as the single span would make sense with the goods sidings. Having a series of small bridges over the sidings feels like they'd probably have finished the sidings short of the road and not bothered.

 

The downside would be that it wouldn't actually block the view underneath it particularly well

 

I agree bowstring  girders - as at Paddington - would look good. It would also avoid the need to explain breaks in the girders (or scratchbuild a version of Keadby Bridge...)One point to remember is that the long bridge might well be Edwardian or inter-war, as a result of road widening, and could therefore be the work of either the LMS or LNER

 

Or if you want to be bold and "modern image" - try the flyovers at Durham Ox in Lincoln and Riby Square in Grimsby as prototypes. Some of the boxes around Durham Ox might make good models, as might the 1950s box at Sleaford South Jnc, and if you want to save time Bachmann did the 1940s standard LNER box in their Scencraft range , and Hornby did models of Louth North and Louth South in Skaledale  (GN Type 1 dating from 1884)

 

 

 

P.S. There are drawings of L&Y boxes in the relevant chapter of OS Nock's The Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway A Concise History, along with signalling diagrams , and some detailed comments - as Nock was a signal engineer himself it is particularly well-informed

Edited October 13, 2018 by Ravenser

[Clive Mortimore]

I think a big bowstring girder would look best, as the single span would make sense with the goods sidings. Having a series of small bridges over the sidings feels like they'd probably have finished the sidings short of the road and not bothered.

 

The downside would be that it wouldn't actually block the view underneath it particularly well

Hi Zomboid

 

I am not so much looking for a view blocker but some thing that says form here on blow the scenery just enjoy seeing the trains. I find too high or over powering back scenes more of a distraction than an asset. When viewing a layout for real it is quite surprising how the eye naturally blocks out the background by concentrating on what you want to look at unlike a photo where it all shows.

 

If I make it one or two spans it is going to be quite a bridge, I look forward to my own challenge.

[St Enodoc]

I have been considering the scenic side of things, more precisely the scenic break and the area in between the triangle. I don't want it too high so I cannot get to a train that has a problem behind it. Therefore I will only be building a bridge. Well two bridges meeting at a road junction.  As you can tell the triangle area will possibly be filled with the tail end of the goods yard sidings. Not too sure if this would happen or the yard stop at the bridge but I wanted a reason for the road to remain elevated. Please remember the lines coming in are fictitious ones from the L&YR and GNR so any bridges would be to the designs and styles they used not those of the MR and MS&LR who did build lines into the city.

 

I welcome any comments.

 

Question for Enterprising Mike, were coppers still on point duty in Sheffield in the 1960s or do I need traffic lights?

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Clive, I like the idea of the bridges but as Zomboid says I'm not sure about the truncated sidings butting up against the main line. I don't think they would look right at all.

Edited October 13, 2018 by St Enodoc

[Clive Mortimore]

I agree bowstring  girders - as at Paddington - would look good. It would also avoid the need to explain breaks in the girders (or scratchbuild a version of Keadby Bridge...)One point to remember is that the long bridge might well be Edwardian or inter-war, as a result of road widening, and could therefore be the work of either the LMS or LNER

 

Or if you want to be bold and "modern image" - try the flyovers at Durham Ox in Lincoln and Riby Square in Grimsby as prototypes. Some of the boxes around Durham Ox might make good models, as might the 1950s box at Sleaford South Jnc, and if you want to save time Bachmann did the 1940s standard LNER box in their Scencraft range , and Hornby did models of Louth North and Louth South in Skaledale  (GN Type 1 dating from 1884)

 

LouthNBox1975 640x480.jpg

 

 

P.S. There are drawings of L&Y boxes in the relevant chapter of OS Nock's The Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway A Concise History, along with signalling diagrams , and some detailed comments - as Nock was a signal engineer himself it is particularly well-informed

Ah!!! Louth box, it is still standing despite there being no railway. There is a very busy mini roundabout close to it.

 

The signal box design all depends on whether I can or cannot build the LMS/Westinghouse signals or if I go for BR design. I will build a Westinghouse power signal box to go with the signals. If BR design signals then the ER power box with Colchester on the front will be renamed Sheffield Exchange. The later looks like winning at the moment.

[Andrew P]

I do like the ends of the Sidings coming under the Bridge Clive, can they be connected to a track by any means?

[Clive Mortimore]

Clive, I like the idea of the bridges but as Zomboid says I'm not sure about the truncated sidings butting up against the main line. I don't think they would look right at all.

Hi UDJ

 

There are examples of yard butting on to main lines, Preston, Mauland Good station comes readily to mind. Thorton Field Carriage sidings at Startford. Crown Point, Norwich.

 

I have a big area to fill with something railway. I have brought the bridges as close to the station as I can. I want to be able to see the locos when they are reversing back on to the loco sidings from the station and visa -versa. If I bring the bridges closer the locos will be under the bridges, as would the starting signals.

 

There will be enough room for road vehicles to get round the end of the sidings so they will not butt up too close. I have thought there might be a wall between as well to help it visually.

Edited October 13, 2018 by Clive Mortimore

[Clive Mortimore]

I do like the ends of the Sidings coming under the Bridge Clive, can they be connected to a track by any means?

No they won't join up they are there as a scenic item only.

 

Joining up will mean goods trains and shunting...what ever next.

[Stubby47]

Another option is consider the road is at ground level and the railway has been cut in to a lower datum. So instead of a goods yard there would be two curved walls of possibly arches, with a building on top ( terraced housing?) and more road over rail type bridges. To me, the girder bridges look like railway line bridges, not road ones.

[Clive Mortimore]

Another option is consider the road is at ground level and the railway has been cut in to a lower datum. So instead of a goods yard there would be two curved walls of possibly arches, with a building on top ( terraced housing?) and more road over rail type bridges. To me, the girder bridges look like railway line bridges, not road ones.

Hi Stu

 

I am trying to avoid non railway infrastructure. I am also trying to avoid the setting being in a cutting, a cutting could be easy with a pair of tunnels for the trains to disappear into but that is too muddle railwayish but it would have to continue towards the station and I want as open view as possible, not end up with a Liverpool St,  Lime St or Glasgow Queens St affair where you are forced to look at the roofs of the trains.

 

As for a truss girder bridge, there are quite a few examples, Worship St over Liverpool Street, Bath Road outside Bristol Temple Meads,  Thorpe Road, near  Peterborough North Station, Holgate Road close to York Station and all those on the way out of Paddington.

[Stubby47]

(Green field and two level crossings...)

 

Aha, I see your dilemma. Anything big will also block the view of the station-avoiding lines at the back.

 

A road with a row of tall trees alongside is another option, but unless it's the elevated M4 it will be hard to make the high road not look contrived.

 

I just thought with a triangular raised wall you'd help disguise the two lines leading away from the station - you would only see one set of lines depending on which side of the board you were.

[Clive Mortimore]

(Green field and two level crossings...)

 

Aha, I see your dilemma. Anything big will also block the view of the station-avoiding lines at the back.

 

A road with a row of tall trees alongside is another option, but unless it's the elevated M4 it will be hard to make the high road not look contrived.

 

I just thought with a triangular raised wall you'd help disguise the two lines leading away from the station - you would only see one set of lines depending on which side of the board you were.

Hi Stu

 

Could you do a sketch of the triangle, please?

 

As long as I can see over the back scene and get to any trains that fall off the track the avoiding lines were never going to be part of the "station scene".

[Stubby47]

Hi Stu

 

Could you do a sketch of the triangle, please?

 

As long as I can see over the back scene and get to any trains that fall off the track the avoiding lines were never going to be part of the "station scene".

Based on the pic in #2578.

 

 

The houses are the backs of terraces, with the road beyond. You'd then need bridges as before.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Stubby47

[Clive Mortimore]

Our lineside photographer has got his mates to position themselves around the station and they all photographed the arrival of the Leeds/Bradford via Barnsley and the Bradford/Leeds via Doncaster arriving at the same time. 

[TheSignalEngineer]

Reminds me of one at Machester Piccadilly I would have loved to get into a position to photograph. There used to be three simultaneous departures of Class 323s to Hadfield, Stoke and Crewe.

Despite the difficulties with running trains on time there it did actually happen sometimes. A bit scary if you were on the one in the middle, as it was also possible to pass one coming in at the same time.

[Clive Mortimore]

Based on the pic in #2578.

 

20181014_121618.jpg

 

The houses are the backs of terraces, with the road beyond. You'd then need bridges as before.

Hi Stu

 

Thanks for taking the time to draw your idea.

 

Sheffield had a style of terrace house that was not like the rest of the country. There was a covered path between the properties with the house entrance (it acted as back and front door) on the side. With guidance form Enterprising Mike I started to draw some typical Sheffield terrace houses for exchange Mk1.

 

 

Lloyd Street the backs were the same as the fronts.

Some streets had a kitchen/scullery extension and some even had a front garden and a bay window.

 

I am slipping here is a song for last night

Edited October 14, 2018 by Clive Mortimore

[Andrew P]

Our lineside photographer has got his mates to position themselves around the station and they all photographed the arrival of the Leeds/Bradford via Barnsley and the Bradford/Leeds via Doncaster arriving at the same time. 

 

Excellent Clive, but MIND THE GAP across the door.

 

And who put those big blue blocks in the other pic? hahhah.

 

Looking very good though.

[John Tomlinson]

Clive, the house pictures are interesting, and different areas seem to have variations on a theme. From very distant memory parts of Newcastle on Tyne had something similar.

 

In some of the pics, particularly the bottom one, it looks as if the through passage also gives access to the back of the house next door, so in effect they're in units of four. The key question is where are the bins kept and how do they reach the street.

 

Like the pics you've posted, again it shows how quickly you've made such progress.

 

John.

[Clive Mortimore]

Excellent Clive, but MIND THE GAP across the door.

 

And who put those big blue blocks in the other pic? hahhah.

 

Looking very good though.

Thank you Andrew

 

As for the big blue blocks, you would have said "you could have tidied up the play room" if I didn't try to hide what was there. :sungum:

[Clive Mortimore]

Clive, the house pictures are interesting, and different areas seem to have variations on a theme. From very distant memory parts of Newcastle on Tyne had something similar.

 

In some of the pics, particularly the bottom one, it looks as if the through passage also gives access to the back of the house next door, so in effect they're in units of four. The key question is where are the bins kept and how do they reach the street.

 

Like the pics you've posted, again it shows how quickly you've made such progress.

 

John.

Hi John

 

We need answers for Enterprising Mike regarding the bins.

 

There is still loads to do, the fuddle yards still need their point motors fitted to the points. It will mean I don't have to keep walking over to the Manchester sidings every time I change trains.

 

I am still thinking how I am going to make the platforms. I have some 18mm MDF (as used by Mr P) but I cannot cut straight with a jig saw.

 

I have all the passengers, railway staff and trainspotters to make.

 

I could go on and on but I will only either depress myself or go into a sheer panic with the amount of work still to be done. But it is a life time project so I can take my time. The most important thing is I have something working and can enjoy playing trains, after all that is all we aim to do.