RMweb Premium Reorte Posted May 8, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 8, 2015 Some news to make me smile, not too often that happens! I just hope there's no need for this to ever happen again. From an operational point of view does this mean there could be quite a bit of interesting repositioning going on? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted May 8, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 8, 2015 Good it appears to have had the desired effect and sorted the management system issues in exactly the way the system is supposed to guard safety. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gary H Posted May 8, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 8, 2015 This is great news! Lets hope that nothing like it ever happens again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
11B Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Well done to all at WCR and Network Rail for their hard work getting a plan together and getting things sorted. Lets hope that things never go back to what has happened recently! Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiderHead Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Good it appears to have had the desired effect and sorted the management system issues in exactly the way the system is supposed to guard safety. Its remarkable (almost unbelievable) that they could achieve such a change of culture in just 4 or 5 weeks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted May 8, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 8, 2015 Some news to make me smile, not too often that happens! I just hope there's no need for this to ever happen again. From an operational point of view does this mean there could be quite a bit of interesting repositioning going on? Looks like Carnforth is trying to get stock into place for The Jacobite that is due to start Monday. At least I can now safely proceed with modelling my WCRC rake! Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I understood (from Facebook) that the ORR ban still stands, is that not the case? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted May 8, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 8, 2015 I understood (from Facebook) that the ORR ban still stands, is that not the case? I think it's quite complicated. My understanding is that ORR haven't banned WCRC (yet) - they were looking into removing their safety certificate NwR have given WCRC back their track access, which is a different thing. No doubt that ORR and NwR would've been communicating and it would now seem strange if ORR were to enforce a ban after NwR have decided that WCRC are now playing by the rules. Good news for those employees at WCRC that now seem to have a more secure future. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 ORR may have a rather wider remit than NR so could have other issues to look into, so there is some risk that they will come back with some kind of ban. However with WCR having appointed two consultancies with good reputations for safety management and operations, and their top priority will be to ensure that that doesn't happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 8, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 8, 2015 I think it's quite complicated. My understanding is that ORR haven't banned WCRC (yet) - they were looking into removing their safety certificate NwR have given WCRC back their track access, which is a different thing. No doubt that ORR and NwR would've been communicating and it would now seem strange if ORR were to enforce a ban after NwR have decided that WCRC are now playing by the rules. Good news for those employees at WCRC that now seem to have a more secure future. Cheers, Mick Technically we are talking about two different things. The ORR interest would be in WCR's Operating Licence and compliance with various legislative requirements while NR's interest - as Mick says - is in their Track Access contract. In theory the ORR investigation could/should be looking at a far wider range of issues in respect of documentation and procedures within WCR than would be the case with NR and ORR's investigation could take longer and has three potential outcomes - effectively 'do nothing' (with or without minor recommendations), or issue an Improvement Order, or suspend/withdraw the Operating Licence. The fact that WCR have satisfied what NR wanted of them is simply that, hence NR have lifted their ban. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 The positives are that WCRC has responded to the criticism and that means the major player in the tours and leisure market is still with us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted May 8, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 8, 2015 Technically we are talking about two different things. The ORR interest would be in WCR's Operating Licence and compliance with various legislative requirements while NR's interest - as Mick says - is in their Track Access contract. In theory the ORR investigation could/should be looking at a far wider range of issues in respect of documentation and procedures within WCR than would be the case with NR and ORR's investigation could take longer and has three potential outcomes - effectively 'do nothing' (with or without minor recommendations), or issue an Improvement Order, or suspend/withdraw the Operating Licence. The fact that WCR have satisfied what NR wanted of them is simply that, hence NR have lifted their ban. Mike, is it also true to say that ORR can implement criminal proceedings? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leekman Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Just seen 90039 heading northbound along the Trent Valley line at Rugby with West Coast ECS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill Dyson (onslaught832) Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Has the 'Scarborough Spa' been abandoned now by WCR? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul.Uni Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Has the 'Scarborough Spa' been abandoned now by WCR? As a summer train, yes. It is running three days in October http://www.westcoastrailways.co.uk/scarborough-spa-express/scarborough-spa-express-details.cfm The summer replacement is the Dalesman on Tuesdays and Thursdays. The train runs from York to Carlisle. The steam loco is added at Hellifield. http://www.westcoastrailways.co.uk/dalesman/dalesman-steam-experience.cfm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 8, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 8, 2015 Mike, is it also true to say that ORR can implement criminal proceedings? Phil they have a number of prosecuting powers and have used them against at least one 'minor railway' in the past (albeit not entirely correctly as that case was brought under what was arguably the wrong charge however the railway concerned couldn't afford a barrister to argue that in court). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher125 Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Has the 'Scarborough Spa' been abandoned now by WCR? I may have been wrong but earlier this year I had the impression WCRC were expecting the LNE steam ban to be reinstated - as the issues flagged up at the time do appear to have been addressed now presumably the SSE could be reinstated at some point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted May 8, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 8, 2015 Its remarkable (almost unbelievable) that they could achieve such a change of culture in just 4 or 5 weeks. It is entirely possible and in this case, believable. They will have satisfied the NR conditions sufficiently to enable the track access suspension to be withdrawn, that will not have been done lightly by NR and the measures put in place by WCR and their professional consultants will have been subject to detailed scrutiny. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted May 8, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 8, 2015 Its remarkable (almost unbelievable) that they could achieve such a change of culture in just 4 or 5 weeks. It is entirely possible and in this case, believable. They will have satisfied the NR conditions sufficiently to enable the track access suspension to be withdrawn, that will not have been done lightly by NR and the measures put in place by WCR and their professional consultants will have been subject to detailed scrutiny. It should be noted however that while the suspension has been lifted, WCR will be subject to a through check in three months time (and maybe a further one three months after that), and if they have reneged on their promises then NR won't hesitate to instigate a further suspension if they feel safety is at risk again. That said I'm sure that WCR are aware of this, plus the need to demonstrate to the ORR that they have changed for the better and that the improvement will become permanent so such a situation is unlikely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 There was also a reference to the resumption of service being gradual, suggesting on or more of: It may take time to train up all staff in the new procedures Some new procedures, that are required for certain types of operation, may not be ready Management and the consultants will be closely reviewing the first operations to resume, to ensure everything is OK before wider operation takes place Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dublodad Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Have received an email this evening confirming that the "Dartmouth Express" next Friday will be running. Motive power not confirmed but Britannia is at Bristol AFAIK ready to take over at Westbury!!!! Terry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Its remarkable (almost unbelievable) that they could achieve such a change of culture in just 4 or 5 weeks. Not really. I was working as a studio and location director for the BBC in 1986 when the Michael Lush tragedy happened. A member of the public was killed in a fall while rehearsing a bunjee jump stunt for the Noel Edmonds Late Late Breakfast Show and it turned out that there wasn't even a safety officer at the location. After that, attitudes to safety were turned around incredibly quickly. Any producer or director who hadn't completed new basic safety training within I think three or four weeks wasn't allowed to work in studios or on location until they had. This prevented programme bosses from claiming that their production staff were too busy to take a day or two out for the training. It was followed up fairly quickly by new procedures such as having to complete a hazard assessment for every job and some absolutely brilliantly produced multi-media training. The training was useful but the real change was in attitudes. The shock of realising what had happened in the accident on that programme and then thinking about what could have gone wrong on some of our own productions was a real wake up call. Safety just stopped being something you could leave to the technicians. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted May 9, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2015 Safety just stopped being something you could leave to the technicians. The whole of BR went through a similar experience after Clapham, although arguably the pendulum swung too far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForestPines Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Have received an email this evening confirming that the "Dartmouth Express" next Friday will be running. Motive power not confirmed but Britannia is at Bristol AFAIK ready to take over at Westbury!!!! Britannia was indeed on shed at Barton Hill yesterday morning Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 The whole of BR went through a similar experience after Clapham, although arguably the pendulum swung too far. The important thing seemed to be to for people to actually think about potential hazards, their potential seriousness and likelihood followed by the steps they'd taken to ameliorate them. The hazard form couldn't be completed by ticking boxes and "No hazards identified" wasn't a satisfactory response either as there are always risks. Undoubtedly, some people did take the process more seriously than others but nobody could say that they didn't know it was their responsibility. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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