Class 37, by Accurascale

[GMKAT7]

Good morning Michael,

 

Oops, I hope you haven't reopened the fitting lamps and taking them off again 'can of worms '. 

 

Look what happened last time.🤐

 

Cheers, Nigel.

[Michael Hodgson]

44 minutes ago, GMKAT7 said:

Good morning Michael,

 

Oops, I hope you haven't reopened the fitting lamps and taking them off again 'can of worms '. 

 

Look what happened last time.🤐

 

Cheers, Nigel.

 

OK then, forget that - I've seen moving cyclists, and courtesy of an excellent modeller in MERG, working sliding doors on an EMU but I've still to see the next stage .... passenger stock being loaded and unloaded  prototypically 🤣

[The Stationmaster]

15 hours ago, MidlandRed said:

I agree entirely - and great you’re asking for the real thing in regard to the RSH WR version with ‘proper’ headcodes. But surely you’ve omitted the light bar mounted on the headboard mountings, with a Lucas car spot light mounted on it, for Central Wales line use😀 

 

It always surprises me that manufacturers produce so few pre TOPS post mid 60s/early 70s variants - noting the number of high profile and popular model railways that cover this era, and the ability to have locos covering late steam, green diesel and blue diesel variants. 

The Central Wales one was in my list of variants but it would be quite a challenge doing a mass produced r-t-r version I suspect due to the fineness of the parts when they are scaled down .

 

The lack of early/mid 60s into the 70s surprises me too as it seems popular judging by the wider market.  I expect that the 'prettier' and 'wilder' diesel liveries are likely to be far more attractive to many buyers.   Hence they are the sensible way of bringing a new, long working life, model to market in order to produce an early return and get the development costs covered before going for more mundane liveries.

 

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Nobody has yet got the driver changing ends, or taking a paraffin oil lamp off the back of the train and putting it on the other end, to say nothing of shuffing the lamps on the front of a steam engine.

Exactly so - there comes a stage where there are things which simply can't be done, or done at anything approaching an economic cost and marketable price.  And if people want things like day or night headlights (so presumably  they know when they are used, and not used) you are getting into an area which needs a lot more functionality beyond the around about a dozen basic variants of lights on a long working life diesel.  So once again - if the technology is available - you potentially run into the cost and price situation affecting overall marketabiliity

[SRman]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Nobody has yet got the driver changing ends, or taking a paraffin oil lamp off the back of the train and putting it on the other end, to say nothing of shuffing the lamps on the front of a steam engine.

 

There was a German diesel model released a few years ago with a driver that popped up at the correct end when changing directions. I think it was an ESU model of a BR 218, but my memory is a little hazy on that.

[McC]

36 minutes ago, SRman said:

 

There was a German diesel model released a few years ago with a driver that popped up at the correct end when changing directions. I think it was an ESU model of a BR 218, but my memory is a little hazy on that.

 

At the expense of a raft of compromises in the accuracy and fidelity of the model. A bit like opening coach doors. You can have gimmicks and you can have fidelity but you can’t (yet) have both i’m afraid. 

Edited February 3 by McC

[ruggedpeak]

Yes, there were models where the driver pops up and down and coaches where the doors open in stations made by continental manufacturers. However they are not features that have continued AFAIK in the contintental scene, presumably as no one wants to pay the extra. Some stuff people just don't want, like Bachmann putting passengers in coaches and charging a premium.

 

The bulk of customers want qood quality trains that work, have longevity through reliability and spares availability, and are reasonably priced for the detail and function.

 

 

[NHY 581]

52 minutes ago, SRman said:

 

There was a German diesel model released a few years ago with a driver that popped up at the correct end when changing directions. I think it was an ESU model of a BR 218, but my memory is a little hazy on that.

 

 

They had something similar in the film Airplane I seem to recall............

 

 

Rob

 

 

[YT-1300]

On 02/02/2024 at 11:44, Bryn_Bach_Railway said:

The aux pins are the standard for function outputs. 10 outputs (excluding front and rear lighting) for anything the model wants to incorporate. But as any 10 function decoder would use all these pins (granted they may be in a different order) then all the lighting outputs on these pins should work. However the extra functions (accessed using Esau’s custom setup) won’t. It’s a case of what functions were mapped to outputs only esu can access. And that the esu custom set up seems to be affecting the normal access to the 10 aux pins.

 

like I said in my past post. I’ve made my points. I’m not going to keep repeating myself. But we should not have to use esu just to get proper lighting

If I want to use Apple Play in my car, I have to use an iPhone.  I don't go moaning to the manufacturer just because I don't want to use an iPhone, instead I use Android Auto.  It might not, or might, have the same features but at the end of the day if I want those extra features, then I'd need to use an iPhone.  Simple as that

 

Accurascale have designed a full range of features that can be completely unlocked using a specific ESU decoder.  The option is there, its up to you to decide if you want it or not, if you do, then use the ESU chip, if you don't want to, don't berate the manufacturer.

[MidlandRed]

1 hour ago, YT-1300 said:

If I want to use Apple Play in my car, I have to use an iPhone.  I don't go moaning to the manufacturer just because I don't want to use an iPhone, instead I use Android Auto.  It might not, or might, have the same features but at the end of the day if I want those extra features, then I'd need to use an iPhone.  Simple as that

 

Accurascale have designed a full range of features that can be completely unlocked using a specific ESU decoder.  The option is there, its up to you to decide if you want it or not, if you do, then use the ESU chip, if you don't want to, don't berate the manufacturer.

There is a difference with this analogy in that car manufacturers introduced the Apple car play system to work with that technology when no other existed. Apple and Android use different operating systems in the first place, the former arguably being less susceptible to hacking and viruses. 
 

DCC as a system has been around for a while and there are various systems in the market place. I suspect the Accurascale model has been introduced into an established market place where models are, and have been produced where ‘DCC ready’ can be obtained and the functionality works with a range of decoders, which the purchaser can purchase later, or alternatively the purchaser can buy a DCC fitted variant where the chip is chosen by the manufacturer. 
 

So if the Accurascale model does indeed only offer full functionality with only one make of decoder, that is indeed a new departure in the market place which seems only to have come to light subsequent to the model being widely in circulation. Whether this is by design or accident is, I guess another matter. However the modeller has a choice to accept this limitation or simply choose another manufacturer for their model.

 

I don’t have an Accurascale class 37 yet but have a couple on order, as suitable models were only available in the second batch - as someone who plans to have a DCC model railway ultimately, but for the time being is buying DCC ready this thread is useful to understand the requirements and limitations imposed on this model for the future, which would only become an issue if I choose to even use the lighting and other features, as opposed to the fundamental operational flexibility of DCC - hopefully that works regardless of chip make??!! 

Edited February 3 by MidlandRed

[adb968008]

3 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

OK then, forget that - I've seen moving cyclists, and courtesy of an excellent modeller in MERG, working sliding doors on an EMU but I've still to see the next stage .... passenger stock being loaded and unloaded  prototypically 🤣

Augmented Reality…

 

back scenes and front scenes.

 

back scenes allow different landscapes, geography and weather

fore scenes eras of passengers and location context.

 

 

we might need AR for this thread soon, to put a 37 in it.

Edited February 3 by adb968008

[Bucoops]

3 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

 

 

They had something similar in the film Airplane I seem to recall............

 

 

Rob

 

 

 

Surely you can't be serious?

[Captain Kernow]

3 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

They had something similar in the film Airplane I seem to recall...

And in 'Men in Black'...

 

 

[mallaig1983]

1 hour ago, Bucoops said:

 

Surely you can't be serious?

Don’t call me Shirley! 

[maico]

6 hours ago, SRman said:

 

There was a German diesel model released a few years ago with a driver that popped up at the correct end when changing directions. I think it was an ESU model of a BR 218, but my memory is a little hazy on that.

 

Marklin Trix BR 103 series locos have moving drivers

 

Edited February 3 by maico

[maico]

5 hours ago, McC said:

 

At the expense of a raft of compromises in the accuracy and fidelity of the model. A bit like opening coach doors. You can have gimmicks and you can have fidelity but you can’t (yet) have both i’m afraid. 

 

Eh?  I've got a 19 year old Trix  BR 103 that has motorized pantographs. Perhaps considered a gimmick by some back in 2005 but now quite a few makers have them including you!

 

Here is the clever piezoelectric motor they used made in Germany by Elliptec

 

 

 

Edited February 3 by maico

[McC]

11 minutes ago, maico said:

 

Eh?  I've got a 19 year old Trix  BR 103 that has motorized pantographs. Perhaps considered a gimmick by some back in 2005 but now quite a few makers have them including you!

 

Here is the clever piezoelectric motor they used made in Germany by Elliptec

 

 

 

 

Our 92 was probably the first dual motorised OO pantograph equipped model. It is a gimmick but as it was possible with minimal compromise it was worth doing. Likewise illuminated engine rooms or cabs or stay alives built in and lit up dash dials are gimmicky but when done without fidelity compromise it’s worth doing. 👍

[maico]

18 minutes ago, McC said:

 

Our 92 was probably the first dual motorised OO pantograph equipped model. . 👍

 

 You mean in British outline. My Trix has dual motorized pantographs each operated separately on DCC. The Marklin version of the same model is over 20 years old.

Edited February 3 by maico

[McC]

3 minutes ago, maico said:

 

 You mean in British outline. My Trix has dual motorized pantographs each operated separately on DCC. The Marklin version of the same model is over 20 years old.

 

I assume both of those are also HO?

[maico]

17 minutes ago, McC said:

 

I assume both of those are also HO?

 

Yes, Marklin acquired German Trix in circa 1998. This is the 2003 Marklin

 

https://www.marklin.com/products/details/article/39579

 

You can see the twin motors in the pdf. They drive a capstan system

 

bc13e7dd9d99a55ca1aee80e9ce2445e1434542559 (1).pdf

Edited February 3 by maico

[ruggedpeak]

16 minutes ago, maico said:

 

Yes, Marklin acquired German Trix in circa 1998. This is the 2003 Marklin

 

https://www.marklin.com/products/details/article/39579

 

You can see the twin motors in the pdf. They drive a capstan system

 

bc13e7dd9d99a55ca1aee80e9ce2445e1434542559 (1).pdf 409.51 kB · 1 download

So not OO then.......

[Jeremy Davison]

2 hours ago, McC said:

 

Our 92 was probably the first dual motorised OO pantograph equipped model. It is a gimmick but as it was possible with minimal compromise it was worth doing.

 

I disagree with you an this McC, as we often take a layout out to exhibitions that has OHLE in a stabling area. Being able to raise and lower the pans allows both the CL92s and Cl90s to sit on shed with their pans down, but then put them up and drive off when required in a realistic manner. They are not a gimmick!

 

One day people will take pantographs as seriously as the valve gear on a steam loco! 

 

Now tiny LEDs that flash where the pantograph meets the rail are maybe closer to a gimmick, but again represent a specific thing seen on the real railway. 

So please keep pushing the boundaries and developing these 'firsts'!  (Oh and make sure that the Cl 92 pantograph head is flat with the wires when up, and when down, sits within the loading gauge please).

 

Cheers

Jeremy

[SRman]

2 hours ago, Jeremy Davison said:

 

I disagree with you an this McC, as we often take a layout out to exhibitions that has OHLE in a stabling area. Being able to raise and lower the pans allows both the CL92s and Cl90s to sit on shed with their pans down, but then put them up and drive off when required in a realistic manner. They are not a gimmick!

 

One day people will take pantographs as seriously as the valve gear on a steam loco! 

 

Now tiny LEDs that flash where the pantograph meets the rail are maybe closer to a gimmick, but again represent a specific thing seen on the real railway. 

So please keep pushing the boundaries and developing these 'firsts'!  (Oh and make sure that the Cl 92 pantograph head is flat with the wires when up, and when down, sits within the loading gauge please).

 

Cheers

Jeremy

 

I must admit that even though mine is a third rail layout, I still like to play with the pantographs occasionally. 🤣

Now, @McC, about those working retractable third rail shoes ... 🤪

[Southernman46]

38 minutes ago, SRman said:

 

Now, @McC, about those working retractable third rail shoes ... 🤪

I knew they were planning a 74 👍

Edited February 3 by Southernman46

[SRman]

1 hour ago, Southernman46 said:

I knew they were planning a 74 👍

 

It'll be right after I put the last transfer on my nearly finished class 74! 🤣

 

 

Edited February 4 by SRman
Typo

[No Decorum]

14 hours ago, Jeremy Davison said:

 

I disagree with you an this McC, as we often take a layout out to exhibitions that has OHLE in a stabling area. Being able to raise and lower the pans allows both the CL92s and Cl90s to sit on shed with their pans down, but then put them up and drive off when required in a realistic manner. They are not a gimmick!

 

One day people will take pantographs as seriously as the valve gear on a steam loco! 

 

Now tiny LEDs that flash where the pantograph meets the rail are maybe closer to a gimmick, but again represent a specific thing seen on the real railway. 

So please keep pushing the boundaries and developing these 'firsts'!  (Oh and make sure that the Cl 92 pantograph head is flat with the wires when up, and when down, sits within the loading gauge please).

 

Cheers

Jeremy

Absolutely. To me, a gimmick is a feature which doesn’t work properly or is clumsy to use. For example, the slats on a Hornby 50 or the rotating axleboxes on a Hatton’s 66*. If something represents the reality of a prototype and works as it should, such as remotely controlled pantographs, then it’s a feature, not a gimmick. When Bachmann introduced the servo-motored pantographs on the 90, I wondered in a post what would follow. Rotating cooling fans powered by a servo and linked to the fan sound? The rotating axleboxes which are such a feature on 59s and 66s? Lo and behold, someone was working on them!

 

I recall being a small boy and seeing a train on the London Underground emerge from the tunnel into the station and producing a huge blue flash. I asked my father what would happen if somebody was caught in the flash. He was reassuring  but the imposing scene remains with me still.

 

*There are many other examples.