KR Models announce the Fell in OO and N.

[adb968008]

On 13/11/2022 at 14:28, xm607 said:

After this screw up, when the Big Bertha 0-10-0 arrives it most likely have a early and late side to its tender!!

Your optimistic than me, i’m expecting an 0-10-0 on one side and a 2-6-2 on the other.

[adb968008]

After my Fell experience I am reticent to pre-pay/pre-order again.

There are several models I am genuinely interested in.

 

However with KR a pattern is emerging..

 

GT3 is on its 3rd run, Consetts are in their 2nd run.

I would expect a Fell 2nd run next year, its already been hinted at.

so to use two famous quotes..

patience may well be the better part of valour…

let the fools rush in first…

 

wait and see what materialises, if a horse turns to a donkey youve covered your a.. *rear*, but if a diamond emerges from the rough, remember there will be more from where they came from.

 

The big failing imo, of the Fell was it not being accurate to a point in time, though quality of the assembly was imo quite poor too.

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by adb968008

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

Your optimistic than me, i’m expecting an 0-10-0 on one side and a 2-6-2 on the other.

I hope the coupling rods will be considerably better behaved than some people have found with the Fell

[Ian Hargrave]

Just ascended the Lickey in a Voyager 221……just saying 😴

[JSpencer]

Just now, The Stationmaster said:

I hope the coupling rods will be considerably better behaved than some people have found with the Fell

 

Either they go with sloppy thin coupling rods and all gear drive or solid coupling rods (still in sections for curves) and one driven wheel.

 

With the Fell it was 2 driven wheels and sloppy thin coupling rods incapable of resisting a burst of energy once the pick ups found some juice to send to the motor.

This coupled with no clearance between the cranks and the rods led to quartering issues on mine.

I had no issues with the GT3 and was feeling confident. Hopefully the leader and Bertha will be better...

[adb968008]

29 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Just ascended the Lickey in a Voyager 221……just saying 😴

Don’t give them livery ideas

[No Decorum]

2 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Just ascended the Lickey in a Voyager 221……just saying 😴

Did you by any chance spot a bright light behind you?

[cctransuk]

10 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

Did you by any chance spot a bright light behind you?

 

If you did, it'll be all over YouTube as the Lickey UFO !! 🤣

 

CJI.

[big jim]

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

After my Fell experience I am reticent to pre-pay/pre-order again.

There are several models I am genuinely interested in.

 

the bold bit of the first paragraph pretty much sums up my feeling, i really fancy a fell, Bertha and the GT3 but reading various threads on the respective already released of those locos is preventing me ordering Bertha (and bellarophon) as I’m worried about what I might end up with, I’m not one for prototype fidelity so could live with the fells visual shortcomings but I’d at least want something that works properly and doesn’t self destruct

 

for that reason unfortunately unless something comes up at a very very good price to use as a display cabinet ornament then I’ll be giving KR a wide berth for the time being which is a shame as the chosen model prototypes are interesting and unusual 

[Colin_McLeod]

I have the same quandry.  I have already ordered a Leader and Bellarophon so I'm committed there and keeping my fingers crossed.

 

However I have not yet ordered Big Bertha and must admit it's because I am concerned about what it will be like and KR Models' communication style does not help.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Colin_McLeod
Corrected Fell to Leader

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, big jim said:

the bold bit of the first paragraph pretty much sums up my feeling, i really fancy a fell, Bertha and the GT3 but reading various threads on the respective already released of those locos is preventing me ordering Bertha (and bellarophon) as I’m worried about what I might end up with, I’m not one for prototype fidelity so could live with the fells visual shortcomings but I’d at least want something that works properly and doesn’t self destruct

 

for that reason unfortunately unless something comes up at a very very good price to use as a display cabinet ornament then I’ll be giving KR a wide berth for the time being which is a shame as the chosen model prototypes are interesting and unusual 

I understand (possibly wrongly) that folk involved with the real 'Bellerophon' have been invplved in giving information to KR.  That obviously needn't mean that KR paid any attention to the information or have made at the factory is accurately reflecting it in the design of the model. (I do wonder about the Gooch valvegear which would be a challenge for anyone although it had been done on at least one HO scale model in the past).

 

But my concern would still be - based on what we have seen so far from KR -  their ability to ensure that the CADs are correct and that various details are correct before the model is cleared for fullscale production. Attention to detail seems to me to be something of a weak spot with them and even if they announced an 'Aberdare' there's no way I'd pay even a deposit for it in advance and I'd want to see one running before committing any money.

[Matt C]

Head above parapet

 

I'm really struggling/ biting my tongue atmo.

Reading through various KR models threads I see the same small group posting. It brings to mind stadler and waldorf (the Muppets)  KR models decided to produce models that would probably NEVER be produced by the mainstream manufactueres. OK they are pretty much a one (two) man band. They did the GT3 with ok results, they did the Fell with ok/ meh results. They got slagged for the gt3 they got megga slagged for the Fell. They stopped listening on RM Web after the GT 3. They have sold and done re runs of thousands on the GT 3 and probably will on the Fell. I don't have any, BUT they are unusual and if the opportunity arose, yes I WOULD buy one. Ok I know they didn't/ wouldn't ( or were too late to) listen to you to make that ' perfect' model and for that reason  You wouldn't buy one, but ya can't  LET IT GO, LET IT GO ! 🤗

 

Realy guys and gals. You've made your point, its/ they are not for you. Move on and enjoy life !

 

Ducks below parapet

Edited November 17, 2022 by Matt C

[jjb1970]

22 minutes ago, Matt C said:

Head above parapet

 

I'm really struggling/ biting my tongue atmo.

Reading through various KR models threads I see the same small group posting. It brings to mind stadler and waldorf (the Muppets)  KR models decided to produce models that would probably NEVER be produced by the mainstream manufactueres. OK they are pretty much a one (two) man band. They did the GT3 with ok results, they did the Fell with ok/ meh results. They got slagged for the gt3 they got megga slagged for the Fell. They stopped listening on RM Web after the GT 3. They have sold and done re runs of thousands on the GT 3 and probably will on the Fell. I don't have any, BUT they are unusual and if the opportunity arose, yes I WOULD buy one. Ok I know they didn't/ wouldn't ( or were too late to) listen to you to make that ' perfect' model and for that reason  You wouldn't buy one, but ya can't  LET IT GO, LET IT GO ! 🤗

 

Realy guys and gals. You've made your point, its/ they are not for you. Move on and enjoy life !

 

Ducks below parapet

 

Rapido and Revolution started out as pretty much the same and pretty much knocked the subjects they decided to do out of the park from day one. If KR had done the Fell well they'd have been lauded but criticising people for criticising a host of major inaccuracies (which were pointed out from the time the first images appeared) and issues with the design of the mechanism is ridiculous. If KR released models in the usual way it'd be less of an issue as potential customers would see what they were being offered and decide whether or not it was worth buying, but they want people to pay up front on trust. I have never gotten involved in crowdfunded models and while I am willing to pay a small deposit for pre-orders from manufacturers I trust I wouldn't pay in advance for a model I haven't seen and with no idea of when it will be delivered. If I was to even consider it I'd expect the manufacturer to have a rock-solid track record, at the moment that might be Rapido, Accurascale or Revolution in RTR, maybe Bachmann as although they sometimes drop the ball on balance they get it right a lot more than they get it wrong. Hornby is uneven but when they get it right they can get it very right. Heljan veers between excellent and disappointing but they make some great selections of what to produce. Dapol can do terrific models but their QC on colours and assembly can be patchy. Currently I think KR are knocking it out of the park when it comes to selecting stuff to make but delivery is just not acceptable for me to consider paying a non-refundable deposit let alone paying up front in full.

I still think that we should be consistent. Either it's good enough to make something that looks like what it claims to represent as long as you don't worry about accuracy and whether it's a well-designed mechanism, or we want manufacturers to make the effort to get it right. Bachmann, Hornby, Dapol, Heljan and others have all received criticism for errors which are trivial compared to the KR Fell. If people are happy with the Fell then great, like what you like, but I hope those who consider it good enough (which is their right) don't criticise any other models. I think feedback and criticism is an important part of product improvement in general, not just model railways. Those companies which make the effort to get it right should be praised, those who release ill-researched models with inaccuracies should take criticism of the product on the chin and treat it as a learning exercise to do better with future projects. 

[Matt C]

I understand critique. But repeating that infinitum. . . . Move on. And I don't see those who HAVE Bought it and  accepted it, critiquing those MAIN STREAM manufacturers. Again I say, you made your point ( totaly valid) now MOVE ON 

[GWR-fan]

4 hours ago, Matt C said:

I understand critique. But repeating that infinitum. . . . Move on. And I don't see those who HAVE Bought it and  accepted it, critiquing those MAIN STREAM manufacturers. Again I say, you made your point ( totaly valid) now MOVE ON 

 

Who made you the referee in the Fell criticism?   Just because KR do "out of the park" projects is no excuse to release models without carrying out due diligence as regards research and ignoring assistance from people who actually have the information.  A works drawing,  viewing online images and a trip to a museum could hardly be considered proper research.   If you think that the Fell is mechanically OK then keep your eye on this thread as no doubt there will be many more tales of woe (assuming that those who have purchased the model will actually run it)).  It was pre-paying customers who funded this project and what they received was far from what was promised,  however, in your opinion we should all simply keep our keyboards silent because the two-man team is excused for their failure to deliver as promised because they choose "out of the park" projects.  Once bitten, twice shy. 

[boxbrownie]

8 hours ago, Matt C said:

 . . . Move on. And I don't see those who HAVE Bought it and  accepted it, critiquing those MAIN STREAM manufacturers.

You obviously haven’t read much on the Dapol and Hornby threads then.

[Oldddudders]

9 hours ago, Matt C said:

Head above parapet

 

I'm really struggling/ biting my tongue atmo.

Reading through various KR models threads I see the same small group posting. It brings to mind stadler and waldorf (the Muppets)  KR models decided to produce models that would probably NEVER be produced by the mainstream manufactueres. OK they are pretty much a one (two) man band. They did the GT3 with ok results, they did the Fell with ok/ meh results. They got slagged for the gt3 they got megga slagged for the Fell. They stopped listening on RM Web after the GT 3. They have sold and done re runs of thousands on the GT 3 and probably will on the Fell. I don't have any, BUT they are unusual and if the opportunity arose, yes I WOULD buy one. Ok I know they didn't/ wouldn't ( or were too late to) listen to you to make that ' perfect' model and for that reason  You wouldn't buy one, but ya can't  LET IT GO, LET IT GO ! 🤗

 

Realy guys and gals. You've made your point, its/ they are not for you. Move on and enjoy life !

 

Ducks below parapet

I see two quite distinct negative threads in this, er, thread. One is the failure to design a model that conforms to the appearance at any single point in time. Yes, it's unquestionably a Fell, but a sort of time-hybrid. Many people found that disappointing, and surely this falls well short of rivet-counting. 

 

The other is more serious, as it seems assembly - and very possibly the basic design - of the model does not ensure reliable running, which most of us regard as an absolute minimum if we are investing. Close to a couple of hundred quid for what they find is a pile of poo? Indignation is justified!

[jonhall]

25 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

I see two quite distinct negative threads in this, er, thread. One is the failure to design a model that conforms to the appearance at any single point in time. Yes, it's unquestionably a Fell, but a sort of time-hybrid. Many people found that disappointing, and surely this falls well short of rivet-counting. 

 

The other is more serious, as it seems assembly - and very possibly the basic design - of the model does not ensure reliable running, which most of us regard as an absolute minimum if we are investing. Close to a couple of hundred quid for what they find is a pile of poo? Indignation is justified!

 

Its sounds like the Third/Fourth/Fifth threads you have missed is the KR models communication style, KR's slightly chaotic shipping, and whether a pre-order counts for anything if it isn't supplied!

 

Jon

[Matt C]

Nope not a referee of anything, Simply making an observation. Yes I HAVE read most of the threads mentioned and  All points mentioned are very valid. just sad that the SAME  points are posted over and over and over again by the Same people and no one DARE  mention how tired it's getting. Definately time for ME to unfollow this thread and go find something more positive to read 👋

[adb968008]

10 minutes ago, Matt C said:

Definately time for ME to unfollow this thread and go find something more positive to read 👋

Probably for the better.

 

if you accept the status quo, then nothing will change.

 

Theres two ways of getting a message across, raising one’s voice, or just don’t buy it. one is early and gives chnace for reflection, the other is too late and risks not only a poor quality model, but less future models too.

 

I for one want KR to succeed, I’ve bought into all 3 they made so far, but not at any price or quality.

 

I hope they do read the threads even if they don’t engage, but if lessons are learned then it’s to everyone’s benefit. They have listened previously.. they corrected GT3’s bogie and springs, they corrected the Consett. And in my specific case whilst it wasn’t text book customer service, my issue was resolved.

Edited November 17, 2022 by adb968008

[Lee-H]

Three summers have passed since I ordered a Fell and still I wait. Mine was one of the early orders that disappeared into a void. I’ve been offered a refund but I chose to wait until something can be delivered. I suspect a few more summers may pass before I see my purchase. I just hope they might have straightened out the various running issues by the time it turns up.

[Colin_McLeod]

14 hours ago, Matt C said:

Ok I know they didn't/ wouldn't ( or were too late to) listen to you to make that ' perfect' model and for that reason  You wouldn't buy one, but ya can't  LET IT GO, LET IT GO ! 🤗

 

Realy guys and gals. You've made your point, its/ they are not for you. Move on and enjoy life !

 

13 hours ago, Matt C said:

But repeating that infinitum. . . . Move on. And I don't see those who HAVE Bought it and  accepted it, critiquing those MAIN STREAM manufacturers. Again I say, you made your point ( totaly valid) now MOVE ON 

 

1 hour ago, Matt C said:

... just sad that the SAME  points are posted over and over and over again by the Same people and no one DARE  mention how tired it's getting. Definately time for ME to unfollow this thread and go find something more positive to read 👋

 

No offence but you are  begining to sound like the rest of us with your own repetition. 😉

[Ian J.]

I think the reason we 'harp on' is because we want to hear from KR that they acknowledge the design/construction/running/etc issues, they are fixing them, and hope to do better in future. The fact we've not heard that suggests, just perhaps, that they're not listening, and as such that doesn't bode well for their future projects.

[96701]

Has anybody contacted them on their "Contact Us" page on their website? https://www.krmodels.net/contact/

Edited November 17, 2022 by 96701
spealling is carp

[Lee-H]

45 minutes ago, 96701 said:

Has anybody contacted them on their "Contact Us" page on their website? https://www.krmodels.net/contact/

Yes, and they did get back to me after a few days.