KR Models - New Class 40 EOI

[Markwj]

I thought the issue with the model is that it’s being advertised as the GTR loco thus glamorising the event and making money from the story with the sad back drop that someone died as a result of their injuries. If they had just announced we are doing D2xx in whatever livery I wouldn’t have known it was the loco involved in that event. 

[97406]

5 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I dont think they care what rmweb thinks, they were quite proud of their selections of 40’s on the stand yesterday.

 

Personally I think the shock that hits them wont be reaction to D326.

Doing niche prototypes is one thing, but a doing a 40 will imo open a whole world of pain… even if its a good model… 40’s seem to bring out people emotions and reactions quite strongly.

 

There's no such thing as bad publicity as they say. The biggest surprise to me is that I managed to wander around Warley yesterday afternoon and completely missed it! My Spidey Sense ain't what it used to be! I've registered my interest anyway. See what transpires.

[jjb1970]

9 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I dont think they care what rmweb thinks, they were quite proud of their selections of 40’s on the stand yesterday.

 

Personally I think the shock that hits them wont be reaction to D326.

Doing niche prototypes is one thing, but a doing a 40 will imo open a whole world of pain… even if its a good model…

 

40’s seem to bring out people emotions and reactions quite strongly… (they are a Northerners engine afterall).

 

imo it needs to be a great model, not a good one.. I will wait to see see what KR is capable of, with emphasis on wait.

 

I think KR has made his opinion of RMWeb pretty clear, and on past experience he seems to find it difficult to receive negative feedback. In fairness I think most do, but in business you really need to be able to separate personal feelings from professional judgement when reviewing feedback, both good and bad. Getting defensive about criticism grounded in a fair assessment of a product or service may feel better than taking it on the chin and accepting it as a learning experience but good businesses learn from experience. 

On the 40, yes, a combination of a prototype with lots of variations and some obsessive fans may lead to an interesting experience for KR.

[adb968008]

13 minutes ago, scumcat said:

Yes I understand this but this was an unnecessary comment about Kr model apologists having escaped from the Hornby forum

I don’t think anyone escaped from anywhere.

indeed its warley weekend, the loonies are trying to break in.

Edited November 27, 2022 by adb968008

[chris p bacon]

Isn’t 40106 still part of the National collection ? (I haven’t kept up with what the NRM have given away) if so wouldn’t that be a ‘Locomotion’ model ?

[97406]

3 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

Isn’t 40106 still part of the National collection ? (I haven’t kept up with what the NRM have given away) if so wouldn’t that be a ‘Locomotion’ model ?

D200 is. 40106 was owned privately (Gerald Boden I think) before passing into the hands of the CFPS.

[Din]

Part of its down to them being Keith's favourite locomotives, apparently. End of the day, his money to spend on what project he likes...

 

Also apparently some of the sales profits will go/have gone (scanning fees?) to the Class 40 society to help keep the 40s going.

 

Also, next year will be some 60 years since the GTR, and to date there are references to, or outright spoofs of the GTR in the following media:

 

8 Films (Most of which were done in the 60s, including the St Trinians Train Robbery)

 

5 Video and Board Games

 

8 Books

 

7 Songs

 

3 Television adaptations (one of which aired on the 50th aniversarry, and the same week Ronnie died from the BBC)

 

2 Theatre Productions.

 

17 Books from Direct Sources (Both investigators and perpetrators)

 

And I certainly don't reacall protests against any of those!

 

As others have said, one could begin nitpicking any locomotive involved in a controversial moment and lead a loud campaign against it, Harrow and Wealsden trains, any model of a Kriegslok. Or do we accept that historical events happened and there might be interest in such historical moments as outlined by the list above?

Edited November 27, 2022 by Din

[franciswilliamwebb]

8 minutes ago, Din said:

(one of which aired on the 50th aniversarry, and the same week Ronnie died from the BBC)

 

A timely reminder for anyone thinking of not paying their licence fee 😮

[Wolf27]

Putting the controversy of 40126 aside, the 40 seems a daft choice. Especially when it’s a loco that already in the Bachman range, one that is pretty good and could well be already in the process of revisited much in the same vein as the 37, 47 and to a lesser extent the 20, 24 and 25. Yes it might be a favourite loco of Keith Revell and it’s his money but given the general no that has been voiced, surely that must be an early warning. I guess the heart overrules the head on this one. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Wolf27
Tidying up grammar

[97406]

15 minutes ago, Wolf27 said:

Putting the controversy of 40126 aside, the 40 seems a daft choice. Especially when it’s a loco that already in the Bachman range, one that is pretty good and could well be already in the process of revisited much in the same vein as the 37, 47 and to a lesser extent the 20, 24 and 25. Yes it might be a favourite loco of Keith Revell and it’s his money but given the general no that has been voiced, surely that must be an early warning. I guess the heart overrules the head on this one. 

The current Bachmann 40 takes a lot of fettling to get right. Not that it is an unpleasant thing to do, far from it in fact. A modern RTR fully detailed 40 would be well received here at least. My favourite diesel class by far.

[black and decker boy]

25 minutes ago, Wolf27 said:

. Yes it might be a favourite loco of Keith Revell and it’s his money but given the general no that has been voiced, surely that must be an early warning. I guess the heart overrules the head on this one. 

But it’s not his money really is it, KRs business model is for his customers to fund the business in advance.

 

go onto their webshop and you have to commit to full payment (in one lump or spread over the next few months) with no guarantee of quality nor due date. Compare that to others who take a small deposit and only take the balance once the model is in the warehouse.

[Bernard Lamb]

57 minutes ago, Din said:

Part of its down to them being Keith's favourite locomotives, apparently. End of the day, his money to spend on what project he likes...

 

Also apparently some of the sales profits will go/have gone (scanning fees?) to the Class 40 society to help keep the 40s going.

 

Also, next year will be some 60 years since the GTR, and to date there are references to, or outright spoofs of the GTR in the following media:

 

8 Films (Most of which were done in the 60s, including the St Trinians Train Robbery)

 

5 Video and Board Games

 

8 Books

 

7 Songs

 

3 Television adaptations (one of which aired on the 50th aniversarry, and the same week Ronnie died from the BBC)

 

2 Theatre Productions.

 

17 Books from Direct Sources (Both investigators and perpetrators)

 

And I certainly don't reacall protests against any of those!

 

As others have said, one could begin nitpicking any locomotive involved in a controversial moment and lead a loud campaign against it, Harrow and Wealsden trains, any model of a Kriegslok. Or do we accept that historical events happened and there might be interest in such historical moments as outlined by the list above?

But none of the above were aimed at the railway enthusiast market. 

Accidents and wars happen from time to time. My grandfather was killed in the first world war and my father in the second. I am married to a German. I have posted war time photos on the forum from time to time and even included rather controversial details. They have without exception been well received. Most people find nothing offensive about them. I have taken part in discussions and research about railway accidents but would not want to model such a scene.

Here we have a very different situation. A model is being advertised using comments about a group of thugs who beat up an innocent train driver who was just going about his business. That to me is sick.

Should we regard a German BR 52 in a worse light than an Austerity? I can't quite follow your line of reasoning. I give you the benefit of the doubt that it is not meant to be racist.

 

Bernard

[Din]

3 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Should we regard a German BR 52 in a worse light than an Austerity? I can't quite follow your line of reasoning. I give you the benefit of the doubt that it is not meant to be racist.

 

Bernard

 

Not quite sure why you leapt to immediate racism there, but hey ho. Everything looking like a nail I guess.

 

One of those classes of locomotives was involved in the mechanical and fullscale slaughter of human beings, being used as transport.

 

One was not.

 

Should we lead a similar campaign to have those banned as well?

 

Mind, same could be said with Austerities, examples moved the materiel in the 1000 raids and likely the bombing of Dresden.

[jjb1970]

At the moment it's an EOI invitation, no indication of whether customers will fund development by paying up front or whether KR will use their own money or finance from a bank to fund it.

[Legend]

Well , seems tome a straight choice between the known , in the Bachmann 40 , which looks pretty good to me, and the unknown as in KR’s 40 . The essential difference is, of course after EOI you presumably have to order in advance without seeing what you are getting . Now I think KR pulled this off rather well with GT3 , the Consett wagons but the Fell did seem to cause issues and was a bit of a dent to reputation.  
 

KR have done ok so far , but then by picking strange prototypes they haven’t been up against real competition. This changes with the 40, so it’s quite surprising that they have selected this model . I know it’s probably not rational , but deliberately choosing the Great Train Robbery loco does seem a bit distasteful to me.

 

I am looking for a 40 but I think I’ll pass this one by . 

[chris p bacon]

3 hours ago, 97406 said:

D200 is. 40106 was owned privately (Gerald Boden I think) before passing into the hands of the CFPS.

But if a Duh! Moment there confusing the 2. I’d forgotten 106 claim to fame was the last in green

[blueeighties]

21 hours ago, toby_tl10 said:

AS is at least 2 tiers above. 

2 tiers above what?

[WisTramwayMan]

I think this one will get a miss. GT3 might have been OK but given their efforts with The Fell (accuracy/quality/finish) plus the fact you cannot see the end product before you pay) then I'll stick to my Bachmanns. Their financing / payment method might just work when theirs is the only option in town but here it's not - personally I think they've a lot to prove with Leader/Bellerophon/Big Bertha.

[AY Mod]

I am pausing this topic pending further information from KR Models on the subject of the limited edition which should be available at some point over the next few hours.

[AY Mod]

18 hours ago, AY Mod said:

further information from KR Models on the subject of the limited edition which should be available at some point over the next few hours.

 

We've not forgotten; we're still awaiting the promised update.

[AY Mod]

Statement from KR Models:

 

"Both of us at KR Models here deeply respect the railway industry, and all the people who have worked on the rails since its inception. Any disrepsect that any of you have taken from the announcement of the Great Train Robbery livery was not our intention, nor something we want to leave and ignore. 

 

We strongly feel that the livery we have chosen is important, not because of its infamy or its shock value, but because it was an extremely important event in railway history and for the life of the Class 40. To not cover it would be doing the engine a disservice. And not only have we been working closely with the Class 40 Preservation Society to bring the most accurate and finely detailed model of such an engine to market, we have also been discussing the liveries we intended to make for the 40, including the Great Train Robbery livery. As many know, the Class 40 Preservation Society is mostly manned by (ex)-firemen, railwaymen and enthusiasts for the engine, and if any of them had a problem with the announcement of said livery, we can guarantee we would not be making it. We understand the touchy and sensitive nature of the subject, given the tragic events that had transpired, and by no means do we mean to make light of such a tragic event, but this isn't us "profiteering from a tragedy", it is far from it. It is us acknowledging that such a horrible act was committed, and we are doing our part in remembering and memorialising its importance in railway history.

 

We were already planning to make generous donations to the CFPS for their great help in bringing these models out under our banner before our announcement, and I hope that to most of you that it is satisfactory. If not, then I apologise. 

 

If anyone has any concerns or questions for either of us at KR, email either keith@krmodels.co.uk or michael@krmodels.co.uk."

[PjKing1]

I understand why feelings are running high and yes maybe using the wording GTR to advertise isn’t such a good idea but it’s not the locos fault, D326 just happened to be booked on that diagram that day, it could have been any loco.   Yes it had a rather infamous career but that doesn’t mean D326 can’t be replicated.  It’s like saying you can’t model 47*** or 158*** because it had a fatality, at the end of the day D326/40126 is just another cl40.  I already have a modified Bachmann version of D326 but if or when KR produce D326 and if it’s better than what’s currently on offer I’ll certainly purchase one.

[HExpressD]

2 minutes ago, PjKing1 said:

I understand why feelings are running high and yes maybe using the wording GTR to advertise isn’t such a good idea but it’s not the locos fault, D326 just happened to be booked on that diagram that day, it could have been any loco.   Yes it had a rather infamous career but that doesn’t mean D326 can’t be replicated.  It’s like saying you can’t model 47*** or 158*** because it had a fatality, at the end of the day D326/40126 is just another cl40.  I already have a modified Bachmann version of D326 but if or when KR produce D326 and if it’s better than what’s currently on offer I’ll certainly purchase one.

I think as people have said before, modelling it isn't a problem, but making a big song, dance and special edition out of it might be.

['CHARD]

'we have also been discussing the liveries we intended to make for the 40, including the Great Train Robbery livery'

 

I don't want to get into the rights and wrongs of producing D326 again, but there's a huge misapprehension inherent in the above phrase. The livery in question is GSYP (green with small yellow panel), and 20 basically identical locos wore it.  A number alone does not a livery make. 

 

Anyway, I declare myself out, I'll be happy to be proved wrong, and if the new EE Type 4 lives up to the marketing so be it [I've over 38 of the class already, about 80% of which are in Great Train Robbery livery, and I won't be swapping out.]

 

 

[D9020 Nimbus]

Dapol have modelled "accident" locos in N gauge (Grand Parade — A3 — Castlecary 1937) but without advertising them as such and there were no adverse comments. I think it is using the accident/tragedy/crime/whatever to advertise the model that that is regarded as tasteless.

 

Back in the early 1970s there was a fascinating debate in the Railway Modeller on the topic of "is it right to derive pleasure from tragedy", with a particularly insightful contribution from a Rabbi—part of the topic being concerned with the Holocaust.