KR Models - New Class 40 EOI

[toby_tl10]

I don't wish to be rude, but can we have an EOD - expression of disinterest? I'm sure some people feel the same.

 

There's probably quite a lot of people who want a singing and dancing Class 40 in 2023/2024 standards, but how many would want KR to do this job?

[John M Upton]

5 minutes ago, toby_tl10 said:

There's probably quite a lot of people who want a singing and dancing Class 40 in 2023/2024 standards, but how many would want KR to do this job?

 

To be honest there is not that much wrong with the most recent Bachmann version (which is also significantly cheaper) and their N Scale version is just superb so I really cannot see why KR Models is even bothering.

[aureol40012]

2 hours ago, John M Upton said:

Erm, why?

 

It will be interesting to see if people are still sensitive about the Great Train Robbery loco, I recall a previous attempt at producing it being canned after protests.

What do you mean “why”? It’s one of the top 3 most popular diesels ever, and has been low hanging fruit for a redo for ages.  Im just surprised Accurascale et al let this one slip through their fingers…….

Edited November 26, 2022 by aureol40012

[Kylestrome]

2 hours ago, 'CHARD said:

The 'duel speakers' will be interesting.  

 

They'll have a fighting chance of making the right sounds.

[JSpencer]

3 minutes ago, aureol40012 said:

What do you mean “why”? It’s one of the top 3 most popular diesels ever, and has been low hanging fruit for a redo for ages.  Im

just surprised Accurascale et al let this one slip through their fingers…….

 

Actually we do not know if they have let it slipped through their fingers.

 

16 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

 

To be honest there is not that much wrong with the most recent Bachmann version (which is also significantly cheaper) and their N Scale version is just superb so I really cannot see why KR Models is even bothering.

 

Indeed. They will have an up hill struggle to match Bachmann standard alone. 

[aureol40012]

Just now, JSpencer said:

 

Actually we do not know if they have let it slipped through their fingers.

 

 

Indeed. They will have an up hill struggle to match Bachmann standard alone. 

Good point, well made! Will Bachmann “do a 37”?!

[69843]

1 hour ago, Obsidian Quarry said:

I think part of the problem is the fact they are specifically advertising it as "The Great Train Robbery Class 40". Had they just done the loco with that number and not drawn attention to the event it most likely wouldn't be eliciting quite the same response. It feels incredibly crass to be specifically using an awful event like that to sell a model train.

That's the crux of it to me.

Auscision models out here did a model of a Class 46 electric locomotive that was involved in a terrible accident in 1977. Attention was never drawn to the incident, as the locomotive existed for a number of years in the condition modelled before the accident, and it would be a similar case here if KR Models just decided to do D326 without calling attention to it. To however make a song and dance about it being THE Great Train Robbery loco is a low blow to try and shift units by associating it with that infamous event.

Edit: And it turns out you can't defend people openly slandering RMweb members on KR Models' Facebook page or they just block you forever.

Edited November 26, 2022 by 69843

[aureol40012]

Ok, so as an active member of the CFPS I’ve know about this for a few months, and a few modelling members of the society have been giving feedback on the early designs.

 

But that’s not why I’m posting.  The below is my view only….

 

The CFPS, and it’s committee, is STUFFED with current and ex Railway men, many with close links or careers tied to Crewe where the GTR driver was from.  Not one of them who knew about this has objected to D326 being chosen. They were more bothered about the original plaque at Crewe having an error on it, quite rightly.

 

As often with things like this, you will have a small number of people who genuinely still feel very strongly about it, either due to family connection, job, or some other emotive reason. You’ll then have everyone else pile on because they’ve learnt that it’s what you do if you like railways.  
 

The idea that you cannot model such an important part of English railway history is just nonsense,  in my view.

Edited November 26, 2022 by aureol40012

[stovepipe]

So, as the CFPS link has been confirmed, why are they doing it? Is there any element of fund raising for the society? Or do the members just want specific preservation era models to buy for themselves? As usual with KR Models there are more questions than answers, and the whole announcement seems rushed, with marketing copy not even properly proof read.

[TomScrut]

58 minutes ago, toby_tl10 said:

I don't wish to be rude, but can we have an EOD - expression of disinterest? I'm sure some people feel the same.

 

Why would they be interested in knowing who isn't interested? They want to sell the things, not know who isn't buying them.

 

On the announcement itself, I don't care for the use of the robbery as a marketing point, that is very much an own goal in my opinion. It doesn't offend me, but I don't know who they think they are targeting with it. The potential negative is massive, who is going to be positive about that particular aspect of the launch?

 

The class 40 has been asked for on here quite a lot, although it tended to be Accurascale who has been asked. I think the main issue here is whether people will pre order it from KR given the issues some had with the Fell. I definitely won't be.

 

I am keen for a 40, but only one, and would need to be a preserved one. The thing is, by the time KR get this made, if they do given it is an EOI, I'll probably already have the Bachmann Andania. I aren't sure I'd chance missing that in case the KR one blows it out if the water. I don't think any of the proposals are suitable for present day anyway.

Edited November 26, 2022 by TomScrut

[Hilux5972]

13 minutes ago, aureol40012 said:

Ok, so as an active member of the CFPS I’ve know about this for a few months, and a few modelling members of the society have been giving feedback on the early designs.

 

But that’s not why I’m posting.  The below is my view only….

 

The CFPS, and it’s committee, is STUFFED with current and ex Railway men, many with close links or careers tied to Crewe where the GTR driver was from.  Not one of them who knew about this has objected to D326 being chosen. They were more bothered about the original plaque at Crewe having an error on it, quite rightly.

 

As often with things like this, you will have a small number of people who genuinely still feel very strongly about it, either due to family connection, job, or some other emotive reason. You’ll then have everyone else pile on because they’ve learnt that it’s what you do if you like railways.  
 

The idea that you cannot model such an important part of English railway history is just nonsense,  in my view.

I absolutely agree with you. Thank you for saying what you have. Maybe some overly vocal people will take a step back now. 

[PjKing1]

I’ve recently modelled D326 having lowered and adding extra detail to a Bachmann, like previously mentioned it’s an important part of railway history 

[Fair Oak Junction]

Again, I feel there is a big difference between making/producing a model of something involved in an infamous incident and using said incident as a marketing tool.

[DavidH]

53 minutes ago, aureol40012 said:

You’ll then have everyone else pile on because they’ve learnt that it’s what you do if you like railways.  

 

What I've learned from model railway forums is that if you criticise railway staff, then you get an even bigger pile-on against you. So it's a smart move to play the trump card preemptively ;-)

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, Ian J. said:

The GTR seems to me to be one of those events that, for the model railway industry at least, it's safest simply to avoid. IMO, an event for commemorating the railway workers injured, and nothing else.

 

As for this Class 40 announcement, does EOI not mean Expressions Of Interest? If so, then it will be interesting to see how many are willing to trust KR at the moment. I don't, but I want to.

Can we give them expressions of disinterest?  If this goes ahead all it will do is queer the pitch for anyone thinking of investing in producing an upgraded EE Type 4/Class 40. (although I'm quite happen with Bachmann's current offering).   And if KR go ahead what guarantee is there the quality and extent of their 'research', and the standards of manufacture, will be any better than the efforts which landed the market with the Fell or using black colouring on parts of the Palbrick which colour photos show  were painted in bauxite?

 

I said previously i wouldn't go for something they produce even if they happened to do an 'Aberdare' and I definitely won't go for an EE Type 4 from them.

[Johann Marsbar]

There was a former member of Scotland Yard who retired to this neck of the woods who used to do rather nicely out of giving talks on the GTR to all and sundry and actually ended up on the Cruise Ship circuit doing the same!

He allegedly was given one of the worksplates of D326 by BR after it was scrapped as well.....

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, aureol40012 said:

What do you mean “why”? It’s one of the top 3 most popular diesels ever, and has been low hanging fruit for a redo for ages.  Im just surprised Accurascale et al let this one slip through their fingers…….

Have they?   We don't know who is working on one - not the faintest.   For all we know at least two companies could already be well underway but neither of them announce until they've got something a lot further on than a poorly worded press release to show.

[PjKing1]

4 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Have they?   We don't know who is working on one - not the faintest.   For all we know at least two companies could already be well underway but neither of them announce until they've got something a lot further on than a poorly worded press release to show.

I did ask our friends at Accurascale would they ever consider a cl40 but their reply was that as much as they would love to do one someone (presumably KR) already had one in the pipeline.

 

 

[aureol40012]

7 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Have they?   We don't know who is working on one - not the faintest.   For all we know at least two companies could already be well underway but neither of them announce until they've got something a lot further on than a poorly worded press release to show.

Yep, as I said much earlier above (to someone who was a tad less passive aggressive!), good point!  It pays to read a thread before responding ;-)

[black and decker boy]

Oh dear. No chance of me buying a KR class 40 given the standards of their current products.

 

at least it might spur Bachmann to update / improve theirs.

[TomScrut]

3 minutes ago, black and decker boy said:

at least it might spur Bachmann to update / improve theirs.

 

Not sure what sort of updates and improvements you're after but they are upgrading the PCB and lighting in the next releases I believe. Definitely on Andania.

[Colin_McLeod]

1 hour ago, 69843 said:

Edit: And it turns out you can't defend people openly slandering RMweb members on KR Models' Facebook page or they just block you forever.

 

Having a second Facebook account "for lurking only" enables one to continue to read posts by someome who has blocked your normal account.

[MRDBLUE17]

Really does seem like pointless duplication on this one - Bachmanns new model of Andania with its revised lighting and I strongly suspect new sound file, fans etc to match will be far better quality plus available throughout the country at local model shops. 

 

Poor taste in the way it’s been marketed with the Great Train robbery loco. I will be sticking to the new releases from Bachmann.

 

Thanks

Mark

 

 

[97403_Ixion]

Regarding the exhibition layout of the Train Robbery some years back, I actually saw it, held inside a small tent at an exhibition (maybe Aylesbury).  It was a short section of track as a static exhibit, with lights illuminating parts as a narration took place.  It was informative and in no way expressed the event as a form of celebration, in fact it was quite educational and accepted donations to a rail-worker supporting charity.  I also remember hearing that one member of the public approached them and turned out to be related to one of the unfortunate crew of the train (I think the relation was to the driver but not sure) and actually welcomed the educational/informative respect that was depicted by the layout and group.

 

The Bachmann model was I believe commissioned by Rails many years back but was turned down in light of respect to the still living driver and crew members of the train as well as their families.  It was, I believe to be fair, more for sales though I am sure something would have been provided with the model but I totally respect the choice by Bachmann and/or Rails in choosing not to proceed with it.

 

The model of the loco in the Harrow disaster (Modelzone / 31-175Z 45637 'Windward Islands') did proceed but as has been mentioned before, the real world event was a result of a very unfortunate sequence of events and not a criminal act.  The model does not mention the disaster in the packaging, though it is possible the advert may have done... I am unsure... and it is simply a model of the loco with no historical embellishments.

 

I would hope that KR Models pay a respect to the events and handle it carefully if it proceeds, perhaps with a donation to charity in support of rail workers and/or a similarly educational leaflet/brochure included.  But as has been pointed out already, it appears to be an Expressions Of Interest at present, so in fairness to KR Models, they are just asking at the moment and people have the choice to support it or not.  I guess the fact remains that the loco existed and, like the Modelzone edition of 45637, could be released as just that though I do feel an educational focus on the historical events by them would help the matter.

 

Thanks,

Ixion.

[Bucoops]

2 hours ago, Obsidian Quarry said:

I think part of the problem is the fact they are specifically advertising it as "The Great Train Robbery Class 40". Had they just done the loco with that number and not drawn attention to the event it most likely wouldn't be eliciting quite the same response. It feels incredibly crass to be specifically using an awful event like that to sell a model train.

 

This is my point, but so much better put than i did.

 

1 hour ago, Hilux5972 said:

Maybe some overly vocal people will take a step back now. 

 

If you include me in that, then no, I won't be.