KR Models - New Class 40 EOI

[96701]

I wish KR Models well with this loco, I like this guise myself, so if the model has good detail and good haulage, I'll be up for it.

 

[97406]

I’d like to see the variant modelled with the boiler water tanks removed and the mounting bracket on show. Also the disc headcode ones that (originally) had Clayton boilers, 40091 being an example that I remember from near the end of the class in regular service in ‘84.

[Bucoops]

5 hours ago, HExpressD said:

I think as people have said before, modelling it isn't a problem, but making a big song, dance and special edition out of it might be.

 

Absolutely this. It's in bold that it's "that" loco, it's a limited edition. Still not impressed by it.

[Hilux5972]

I really don’t get the vitriol still being aimed at KR. As they have said, the ex-railwaymen within the CFPS are ok with it. If you don’t believe KR when they say that, perhaps contact the CFPS yourself and ask. If they are ok with it, what’s the issue. 

[69843]

Quote

As they have said, the ex-railwaymen within the CFPS are ok with it.

Whilst I understand the CFPS are involved and being consulted about this, they also don't hold a monopoly on saying if it is ok or not just because they have ex-railwaymen within the group and are the Class 40 experts. I think Mike put it best with the below.
 

On 27/11/2022 at 00:18, The Stationmaster said:

One point worth bearing in mind about the Robbery and particularly the aftermath involving Jack Mills is that to have been in the railway industry then you would be over 70 now.   And that even applies to those who were in the industry at the time a  collection for him was made through much of the wider railway.  If you're under 70 the incident might well have never touched in any way but if you're over 70 you might well not have known him nor worked at Crewe but you might have been well aware of what had happened to him and made a donation to the collection.

 

If somebody wants to make a model of D326 that is simply - in my view - a personal or  business decision.  But I do think it is thoughtless, if not worse, to very specifically link such a model to the Great Train Robbery as that comes over very much as a means of promoting it by implied notoriety.   Maybe having such a view would be considered old-fashioned by some; maybe memories of a criminal assault, and its appalling aftermath, on a railwayman who was simply doing his everyday job almost 60 years ago will be regarded by some as irrelevant and living in the past?  But that is how some people feel and personally I think the use of implied notoriety to promote any product is pretty near the nadir of decent taste and responsibility (but again maybe that is just me being old-fashioned?).  

At the end of the day, it's a Class 40 in BR Green with Small Yellow Panel like many others, and is essentially just another loco. But it is the use of the Great Train Robbery as a promotional 'gimmick' that sits uneasily with a lot of people, not the specific choice of the locomotive number.

The example of NSWGR 4620 I have given upthread has caused comments from people before on similar lines, but it's never been advertised as the "Granville Disaster/Day of the Roses" locomotive. It was just a choice of locomotive number, which had some other notable events in its lifetime.

[Phil Parker]

1 hour ago, 69843 said:

Whilst I understand the CFPS are involved and being consulted about this, they also don't hold a monopoly on saying if it is ok or not just because they have ex-railwaymen within the group and are the Class 40 experts.

 

True, but as I've said before, if you wait for everyone on RMweb to agree on a model, no models would ever be produced. 

 

I knew someone who had worked in a bank who was vehemently opposed to the existence of the Luton clubs model of the scene. He hadn’t seen it, but would angrily denounce it. He seemed happy for Ronnie Biggs to be left to write the history of the event, but not actual, unbiased historians...

[96701]

34 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

True, but as I've said before, if you wait for everyone on RMweb to agree on a model, no models would ever be produced. 

 

I knew someone who had worked in a bank who was vehemently opposed to the existence of the Luton clubs model of the scene. He hadn’t seen it, but would angrily denounce it. He seemed happy for Ronnie Biggs to be left to write the history of the event, but not actual, unbiased historians...

Perhaps KR Models could be persuaded to include a leaflet within the box giving the "alternative" view and focus on the trauma experienced by the ordinary working men involved and how their families were impacted,

[jjb1970]

Whether people object to the model or not is a personal value decision and each of us will have our own sensibilities.

 

I can see why some object, and I respect that, but I really don't have the same feelings. If I look at the things that are routinely modelled the GTR class 40 scores very low on the scale of associated suffering. For example, aircraft like the Avro Lancaster, Boeing B-17 & B-29, Heinkel 111, Junkers 88 are hugely popular with aviation modellers yet were used to bomb civilians, killing huge numbers, including children. I've made countless models of those aircraft, I also love museums like Duxford and the tank museum. Some say the GTR is different because it was a criminal undertaking, but I can't see that lawful killing of countless civilians by military organizations (many of which were legally questionable) is less morally objectionable because of a cloak of legality. Given that I've been a military and aviation modeller for most my life it would be profoundly hypocritical of me to object to this class 40.

 

But that's just my position, as I say, it's very much a personal value judgement.

[97406]

I don’t object personally to the D326 model, but I do understand others’ points of view on it. It’ll be outside my era of modelling, so unless it’ were in blue with dominos, then I wouldn’t get one anyway.

 

40106, however is a different matter. GFYE with the green tops to the nose ends that cut into the yellow (I’ll add those if need be) as it ran in traffic in the early 80s. The loco was the one used in the film Buster with wooden split headcodes, half yellows and plain nose end doors. 135 and 118 are the other 2 used in GTR recreations, both preserved now, and modeled by me, albeit as class 97/4s.

 

I hope this Class 40 model turns out to be a good ‘un.

Edited November 29, 2022 by 97406

[GD]

5 hours ago, 96701 said:

Perhaps KR Models could be persuaded to include a leaflet within the box giving the "alternative" view and focus on the trauma experienced by the ordinary working men involved and how their families were impacted,

That's just ridiculous 

[Darius43]

The comparison with modelling WW2 German aircraft and and armour is well made.  
 

I also note that many people are happy to watch a football tournament played in stadia that, to build, cost the lives of an estimated 6,500 poorly paid and treated construction workers.

 

Darius

[SHMD]

6500 really ?!!!!!

 

I'm shocked!

[russ p]

I don't think I'd want a model of 326 simply because the bloody thing seemed jinxed not massively superstitious but not something I'd fancy on my layout 

[Colin_McLeod]

https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-how-many-people-have-died-for-the-qatar-world-cup/a-63763713

[woodenhead]

I was more concerned with whether KR Models could be trusted to get the shape of the loco just right and their seeming lack of ambition producing just 4 specials against a fleet of 200.

 

But reading this thread you'd think they'd committed some massive sin and now we're onto modern day slavery and Qatar.

 

This thread is going into my bin....

[Colin_McLeod]

RMweb thread drift.  A common occurance. We'll get back to class 40 in time. 😀

[adb968008]

So lets drag it up 1 rung higher than the bottom…

 

The specs…

 

£210 KR are offering..

New Tooling

Etched Grills

Cab Light

Cast Chassis

Fine detail

Lok sound v5 with twin speakers

cold start sound function

 

£209 Bachmann 

New tooled nose ends

Etched Grills

Cast Chassis

Directional lighting

Enhanced lighting

Twin speakers

Plux 22 decoder 

Known & Tested drive system

Known and tested quality

Known and tested accuracy (flaws known)
Known and tested Livery

Any drawbacks are already factored in due to prior releases of 40.

It will fit and sit with my existing 40’s.

Other factors

 

ok so £209 vs £210, £1 difference.. however

 

The Bachmann 40 will be available via retailers.

1. So it will be supporting the trade, whom also support Warley and other exhibitions around the country.

2. For those who are more fiscally focussed, those retailers often offer discounts, and hold stock for several months after release, rather than requiring an up front commit for an unseen product.

3. Additionally, Bachmann supply spare parts, ondemand , via their own website and offer a 2 year warranty to club members.

 

mini swat

 

Strengths..

1. New tooling

2. Supports cfps

 

Weaknesses

1. Dont know how its paid for

2. Dont know what i’m getting, or when

3. We dont know the future potential (are other variations of 40 being tooled in for instance)

 

Opportunities

1. First model of 40106 since Lima days

2. It might be a super tooling, state of the art. (I’m stretching my confidence to the point of a hernia here).

 

Threats

1. Bachmann make a ton of new ones, available nationwide and after discount maybe £160-180 for several months, if not years like the 45’s.

2. Someone else makes one or something unforseen happens.

 

 

we then have by way of comparison

£190 Accurascales class 50..

 

Highly-detailed OO scale model, 1:76.2 scale

Minimum Radius 438mm (2nd Radius Set-track) in OO

Die-cast metal chassis

RP25-110 profile OO wheels with provision for re-gauging with scale-sized wheels for P4/EM gauges – with simple ride height adjustment – and ability to set brake blocks in line with wheels

Separately-applied etched metal/plastic detail parts, including grab handles, steps, wipers, etc.

Scale width wire handrails

Etched metal pre-painted nameplates and crests (where applicable) provided for customer to install

Interchangeable printed headcodes with full description covering the first nine years of the class plus preservation era

Scale-sized and mounted snowploughs provided for customer to install, with one-piece NEM mounted option

Full underframe tank, battery box and full-formed compressor detail with extensive pipework and other separate parts

Fully sprung buffers, super-fine pipework and screw couplings (for display)

Kinetic NEM coupler mounts at correct height and mini-tension-lock couplers

Separately powered working radiator fan with different speed settings

DCC ready [21-Pin MTX Socket] or Factory-Fitted DCC Sound options

High Performance traction, to include;

Five-Pole motor with two flywheels

Metal Helical Gear box for maximum performance and slow speed running

Gearing arranged so locomotive can achieve minimum scale top speed of 125 mph (200 km/h)

DCC ready with PowerPack capacitor for uninterrupted power

All wheel drive (sprung centre axle) and all wheel pickup

Fully detailed Lighting Pack, including:

Directional lighting, DC and DCC

Switchable Red and white marker lights with correctly configured lights for preservation era oddballs 50008 and 50044

Separately switched cab lighting and illuminated, driver’s desk, auto/off on movement

Interior lighting with cast electrical compartment and engine bay detail on metal motor enclosure

Customised Dual-Speaker Technology with large "Accurathrash" Bass Speaker and smaller ‘iphone’ style cube for higher frequencies (on DCC Sound-fitted models only)

Hall sensor for flange squeal effect (on DCC Sound-fitted models only)

 

 

Thoughts

 

The spec of the Accurascale is utterly well defined.

The quality of Accurascale is well known.

I can buy Accurascale from nationwide retailers.

The Accuracy & research is second to none.

The price is lower than KR models.

They have support & after sales in the UK.

 

Crucially

Accurascales communication is second to none

Accurascales level of engagement, and ability to listen and react is well documented.

I know exactly where I stand, I know what to expect and I feel very well consulted & informed.

Conclusion

 

Should anyone present know of any reason that this couple (KR models and class 40) should not be joined in holy matrimony, speak now or forever hold your peace…

 

(Hint it would be a really good time to speak up)

 

For me, right now Bachmann is not swung off my shopping list.

But if its a choice between 40 and 50… as it stands, its an easy one.

 

Edited November 29, 2022 by adb968008

[Banger Blue]

10 hours ago, 97406 said:

I don’t object personally to the D326 model, but I do understand others’ points of view on it. It’ll be outside my era of modelling, so unless it’ were in blue with dominos, then I wouldn’t get one anyway.

 

40106, however is a different matter. GFYE with the green tops to the nose ends that cut into the yellow (I’ll add those if need be) as it ran in traffic in the early 80s. The loco was the one used in the film Buster with wooden split headcodes, half yellows and plain nose end doors. 135 and 118 are the other 2 used in GTR recreations, both preserved now, and modeled by me, albeit as class 97/4s.

 

I hope this Class 40 model turns out to be a good ‘un.

40106 is the one from the announcement that I’m interested in and I’ve signed up to the “expression of interest”.

Hopefully it is 106 as it was in the early 80s but as the models are all CFPS machines, I’m wondering if they will all be ‘as preserved’?

[BR Blue]

I am not interested in a KR class 40. I might be after I see one but I am certainly not ordering one anytime soon. Therefore I will not be expressing an interest.

 

KR models have made models of obscure prototypes but the class 40 is pretty mainstream and there is an existing model to a reasonable standard. This is not a case where "close enough" is "good enough" will work.

 

The new model needs to be better than the existing class 40. There are several companies who could make a better model than the current Bachmann 40, including Bachmann themselves. I am not convinced KR models is one those companies. The new 40 will need extensive research and close attention to detail if it is to exceed the current model. Looking at the Fell and other KR models projects these attributes are not apparent.

 

I also suspect an updated Bachmann 40 may already be in the works and judging by the improvement to the class 37, especially in the cab area, then if there is a new or improved Bachmann 40 then I fear KR models will lose out.

 

Hoping to be proved wrong but suspecting I will not be.

[eldomtom2]

21 hours ago, adb968008 said:

small village in Poland, with no sizeable industry

I'm not sure I'd call Oświęcim a small village - it had over 17,000 inhabitants before the Nazis expelled most of them to keep eyes away from the camp under construction.

[TomScrut]

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

But if its a choice between 40 and 50… as it stands, its an easy one.

 

Not so sure. Depends if there's a 50 I want comes along before Bachmann make Andania.

 

I do also quite like the idea of a 1Co-Co1 in the fleet.

[SHMD]

I have several concerns here: -

 

1/ communication and feedback will not address issues THAT NEED addressing before the CAD is committed to Tooling.

 

2/

[SHMD]

sorry, post melt down......

 

[jjb1970]

Personally, I don't like Class 40's and have very limited interest in the type. But it's an important prototype and as such it is a key locomotive for those modelling BR of the 60's through early 80's. While there's nothing especially bad about the Bachmann model it could certainly be improved upon. I genuinely hope KR does a good job and learns from experience. That said, I am at a point where my existing OO models for the most part are good enough that I see no reason to replace them. This isn't a KR thing, I've bought a couple of the superb new Bachmann 47's but they were additional to and not to replace the older model which is still excellent. Similarly I'm not intending to dump my existing 31's, 37's, 56's and 50's. I'll almost certainly buy some of the newer models (I already have one of the new Bachmann 37's which is excellent) but the examples I already have are very good. I think this will be increasingly the case, though it may mean a lot of very good second hand models appearing as those who do want to replace existing models with the newest and best sell of older stuff. 

[97406]

11 hours ago, Banger Blue said:

40106 is the one from the announcement that I’m interested in and I’ve signed up to the “expression of interest”.

Hopefully it is 106 as it was in the early 80s but as the models are all CFPS machines, I’m wondering if they will all be ‘as preserved’?

 

It sounds like they will be the preserved ones, but I’ll renumber and respray if they’re any good.