RMweb Premium Legend Posted January 23, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said: Always supposing there would be any sales left for Hornby. The Dapol ones have been around for a good while with several batches released in the popular liveries and the major variations covered, too. I've bought the two that are all I need from Dapol and they are among the finest runners I've ever owned. My little Hornby Pecketts perform well, but the Dapol B4s are in a different class again. I'll have a closer look later, but on first sight, the starter one appeared to have been "adjusted" to fit the standard 0-4-0 chassis with any dimensional resemblance to a B4 being coincidental.... John Two different markets . I doubt Dapol will be that bothered . Their model is for the serious enthusiast . The Hornby one , they said themselves, is for a starter set . I really enjoyed this program , it felt less “made up” than last weeks . The point about making the new set in India was interesting . Looks like Hornby are learning and not putting all their eggs in one (Chinese) basket . 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said: Always supposing there would be any sales left for Hornby. The Dapol ones have been around for a good while with several batches released in the popular liveries and the major variations covered, too. A more or less tongue in cheek comment, it had to be made! 11 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said: I'll have a closer look later, but on first sight, the starter one appeared to have been "adjusted" to fit the standard 0-4-0 chassis with any dimensional resemblance to a B4 being coincidental.... Given the time scale mentioned, I would be surprised if a completely retooled scale chassis was even considered. It seems that a simplified 0-4-0 chassis might have already been in the works for Indian production and thats what the B4(ish) loco will be getting. Its not a scale model, its a starter set loco, so strict dimensionality isn't to be expected. If it gives a good impression to the youthful eye and isn't fragile, then its a nice change from their quartet* of older starter 0-4-0 locos. AND its going to be DCC ready! * GWR 101, Smokey Joe, Dowlais Ironworks**, "freelance" ** I think thats what its called Edited January 23, 2023 by Hroth 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 23, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2023 Just now, Legend said: Two different markets . I doubt Dapol will be that bothered . Their model is for the serious enthusiast . The Hornby one , they said themselves, is for a starter set . I really enjoyed this program , it felt less “made up” than last weeks . The point about making the new set in India was interesting . Looks like Hornby are learning and not putting all their eggs in one (Chinese) basket . I agree, but I was replying to a post that suggested Hornby could do a "Design Clever" on the B4 and make a "proper" one, too. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 23, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2023 Just now, Hroth said: A more or less tongue in cheek comment, it had to be made! Given the time scale mentioned, I would be surprised if a completely retooled scale chassis was even considered. It seems that a simplified 0-4-0 chassis might have already been in the works for Indian production and thats what the B4(ish) loco will be getting. Its not a scale model, its a starter set loco, so strict dimensionality isn't to be expected. If it gives a good impression to the youthful eye and isn't fragile, then its a nice change from their trio of older starter 0-4-0 locos. The youthful-beginner market is no place for anything less, in terms of wheelbase. Never has been, and never will be! 😃 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted January 23, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2023 Bear in mind, the new starter set loco is to be DCC Ready - possibly also DCC sound. I think the existing chassis was just used with a 3D print of the body, and shouldn't be assumed that its for production. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 23, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, JohnR said: Bear in mind, the new starter set loco is to be DCC Ready - possibly also DCC sound. I think the existing chassis was just used with a 3D print of the body, and shouldn't be assumed that its for production. Though Hornby will also presumably want to fit the new DCC chassis under the existing starter locos so the basic size and shape are unlikely to have changed. I can't see a "Hobson's Choice" B4 rather than a pick of three (now four) being acceptable. Edited January 23, 2023 by Dunsignalling 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted January 23, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Dunsignalling said: Though Hornby will also presumably want to fit the new DCC chassis under the existing starter locos. I can't see "Hobson's choice" of a B4 rather than a pick of three (now four) being acceptable. Maybe, maybe not. They did say this starter set would be at £100 - considerably more than the existing starter set prices (£60). 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said: Though Hornby will also presumably want to fit the new DCC chassis under the existing starter locos. I can't see "Hobson's choice" of a B4 rather than a pick of three (now four) being acceptable. I forgot that the 0-4-0 mechanism goes under both the "Barclay" and "Bagnall" diesels too... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 1 minute ago, JohnR said: Maybe, maybe not. They did say this starter set would be at £100 - considerably more than the existing starter set prices (£60). Discounted, yes. A quick look at the "official" Hornby 0-4-0 trainset prices shows that they start at £95 for the "Santas Express" set. Hornby Trainsets 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 23, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Hroth said: I forgot that the 0-4-0 mechanism goes under both the "Barclay" and "Bagnall" diesels too... So that's six altogether, with Smokey Joe (which is probably only resting), the Holden and the oddly proportioned industrial thing that proves truth really is stranger than fiction! Edited January 23, 2023 by Dunsignalling 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted January 23, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, Hroth said: Discounted, yes. A quick look at the "official" Hornby 0-4-0 trainset prices shows that they start at £95 for the "Santas Express" set. Hornby Trainsets Santa is always more expensive - the basic starter set Simon showed was lower than that before Christmas - even on the Hornby website. As I said, it was clear that this was to be a much higher spec than the existing unit, which would not be achieved by sticking it on the existing chassis. It was a 3D print they showed at the end, not an Engineering Prototype. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HExpressD Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Mark Dickerson said: Why does Hornby think that "starter" means "grossly out of scale"? They even showed a smaller motor being offered to the designer at one point. The B4 even dwarfed a Jinty. Such a pity. If only that was mentioned in the episode... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium James Makin Posted January 23, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 23, 2023 Interestingly there looked to be a white Class 59 or 66 bodyshell on the test layout when they were running the new starter set, I wonder if that’s just their existing Railroad one or a scaled up one from their TT development! I do hope the staff have teasingly put in all sorts of ‘Easter egg’ bits in knowing us lot will be snooping over every shot, I know I would do just that..! Cheers, James 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyRule1 Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 A figure of £80,000 was given as the investment in the starter set, how far would that have gone? The only reason for the 30:day deadline would appear to be the filming schedule. A third number that occurred was SK say he had waited 70 years, to cab Clan Line. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted January 24, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2023 1 hour ago, MyRule1 said: A figure of £80,000 was given as the investment in the starter set, how far would that have gone? The only reason for the 30:day deadline would appear to be the filming schedule. A third number that occurred was SK say he had waited 70 years, to cab Clan Line. Yes, I think the 30 day deadline was a pure invention for the TV. Simon looks younger than he is, then! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 11 hours ago, Legend said: I really enjoyed this program , it felt less “made up” than last weeks . The point about making the new set in India was interesting . Looks like Hornby are learning and not putting all their eggs in one (Chinese) basket . The way they were talking about the handbrake cutout sounded like they had already drawn the rear cab sheet and the trip to the Bluebell was largely for filming purposes. If so, should Hornby offer a target of 30 days for one loco body can I have a job as a designer there please...? Also, weren't certain "Design clever" models made in India, such as the 42/52xx and 72xx chasses? 11 hours ago, JohnR said: Bear in mind, the new starter set loco is to be DCC Ready - possibly also DCC sound. I think the existing chassis was just used with a 3D print of the body, and shouldn't be assumed that its for production. Bachmann Underground Ernie trains and Maintenance car (circa 2009) were also DCC ready. Once again I thought the additional content from Jools Holland was excellent. You could see why he wanted to include all of those cameo scenes and had obviously modelled them with a real passion. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 10 hours ago, James Makin said: Interestingly there looked to be a white Class 59 or 66 bodyshell on the test layout when they were running the new starter set, I wonder if that’s just their existing Railroad one or a scaled up one from their TT development! I do hope the staff have teasingly put in all sorts of ‘Easter egg’ bits in knowing us lot will be snooping over every shot, I know I would do just that..! Cheers, James If it's anything like when we did "Inside the Factory", there are a certain number of untruths put in to protect company secrets and confuse the competition. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BachelorBoy Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 3 hours ago, MyRule1 said: A third number that occurred was SK say he had waited 70 years, to cab Clan Line. He was a very early developer ... he's only 72 now. :-) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 Just had another look through the last segment, minus the 1st impression rosy tinted specs... The cutout in the backplate of the B4 for the handbrake was definitely absent in the 3D print. Has the handbrake gone the way of the moving regulator? I didn't notice it. The B4 was definitely out of scale, a 3D printing error or are they making it toylike to avoid comparison with B4s from another manufacturer? I was suddenly reminded of Hornby Dublos botched attempt to make a starter trainset in the early 60s to compete with Triang... 1 hour ago, 298 said: If it's anything like when we did "Inside the Factory", there are a certain number of untruths put in to protect company secrets and confuse the competition. Rather like features inserted into maps for copyright protection! Another topic in the programme. Clan Line sound recording. In conjunction with the new 3 channel DCC sound adaptors that weren't mentioned? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 24, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2023 (edited) Over-scale "B4", another source of O-16.5 conversion fodder? Edited January 24, 2023 by Dunsignalling 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 1 minute ago, Dunsignalling said: Another source of O-16.5 conversion fodder? Given the size, its partway there! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Parker Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 13 hours ago, Hroth said: I forgot that the 0-4-0 mechanism goes under both the "Barclay" and "Bagnall" diesels too... Don't forget "Desmond", where it all started. The repeated mentions of simulated wood on the cab floor amused me. That's lovely, but the rest of the model is a "caracture" by the look of it. Not that it would stop me buying one for the Hornby collection. These very basic locos have a charm all of their own I find. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold franciswilliamwebb Posted January 24, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Hroth said: Given the size, its partway there! Well, if TT doesn't turn out to be the new market they're hoping, there's always S... 3 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted January 24, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2023 I think people are extrapolating too much from what we've seen, which certainly isn't the whole story, and the project isn't complete by a long chalk either. How about we just wait and see how this pans out - but if it is a DCC Sound ready starter set, it sounds very interesting. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 6 minutes ago, JohnR said: I think people are extrapolating too much from what we've seen, which certainly isn't the whole story, and the project isn't complete by a long chalk either. How about we just wait and see how this pans out - but if it is a DCC Sound ready starter set, it sounds very interesting. A DCC ready starter set definitely. A DCC/Bluetooth starter set probably. A sound starter set was merely an aside by the sound chap! Though given the size of the iteration we saw, there should be room for the speaker... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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