Bachmann Class 30/31

[Fair Oak Junction]

5 minutes ago, Chiltern Junction said:

I don't see it as damaging to our hobby as some would have you believe

 

Absolutely. It's a somewhat annoying fact of life, but the hobby is still growing so at the end of the day the system is working.

Edited February 6 by Fair Oak Junction

[wombatofludham]

6 minutes ago, Hilux5972 said:

Why? Just why? Accurascales is already in production. What a waste of tooling. Why not do the 40? KR has an atrocious  record of listening to customers and putting out sub par models, (anyone say fell?), a totally new 40 would have been an absolute killer for Bachmann. 

I expect, given the length of time these models take to develop and the costs involved, because Accurascale and Bachmann were both working on new models at the same time, having both identified that Hornby's obsession with big green tea urns had left a lot of much wanted liveries untouched and saw it as a potential good model to take up, especially as Bachmann have said they want to bring a number of N scale models into their OO range.  Given they have expended several year's work and money on the model, why on Earth should Bachmann write off several hundred thousand pounds because Accurascale have announced a high spec 31?  

I do wonder if we will see an OO scale 87 especially as the 90 chassis would be a good starting point for one.  At least if they do we won't need to dismantle our model and circuit board to put in DCC noise.

[JSpencer]

29 minutes ago, Chiltern Junction said:

I didn't expect this announcement but I am quite happy about it. Unlike some, I don't see duplication as an issue, it gives us more choice in spec and liveries and I like the fact that we don't see every layout running the same locos pulling the same wagons. Variety is a good thing in this hobby.

 

Duplication is a bit of a dangerous game. I think it will work with 37s and 47s as they were everywhere running a very long period. That said the Heljan 47 might struggle a bit against the Bachmann one which has achieved a very high level, has been out 2 years and are starting to get a bit more discount from retailers. (I brought SFX lady Diana last year because it was finally a fair distance below £300 - and I thought these were sold out).

The 37s have seen a more even battle, with maybe an advantage to accurascale thanks to both being out in a relatively short time of each other.

 

The 30/31s is going to be a bit more of a battle. They were generally Eastern region only engines until we get into BR blue days. So despite being the longest lasting type 2, they may not be as popular as 37s and 47s.

 

The problem with a duplicate is that it might cause competition in the short term. But may hit the bottom line in time if they don't sell as fast. This not only for the manufacturers' but also retailers having to guess how many they will sell. The increasing number of duplicates could sink some retailers. Where as money put into types not done before opens up a new niche in which to exploit sales.

 

I am reasonably happy with Hornby one, which is a guest visitor on my layout. It has a working variable fan (based off the motor speed and not DCC of course). But at £55 plus £40 for TTS chip, it serves as a rare type visitor for my region.

By contrast a 33 to these new specs would grab my money and various yet to be steam locos even more (V4, U, Q, Z etc...).

[40002]

9 minutes ago, Hilux5972 said:

Why? Just why? Accurascales is already in production. What a waste of tooling. Why not do the 40? KR has an atrocious  record of listening to customers and putting out sub par models, (anyone say fell?), a totally new 40 would have been an absolute killer for Bachmann. 

Well OK i'm not a rivet counter but I have the latest version of the Bachmann 40 and while its not perfect i'm reasonably happy with it. The biggest improvement for me was the ability to individually turn off the Tail lights, plus the the 40 doesn't have the multitude of liveries and variations the 31 has. But as commented Bachmann may have an updated version in the pipeline, and possibly of course other manufacturers.

[AY Mod]

5 minutes ago, wombatofludham said:

At least if they do we won't need to dismantle our model and circuit board to put in DCC noise.

 

Ever listened to an Accurascale 92? The noisy ones are brill.

[Southernman46]

Duplication of the class is one thing - there are 263 locos to choose from plus the later modifications / re-numberings - I am sure that the two companies can both provide a wide select of different locos for all to choose from. AS have shown they are not celebrity loco fixated and prepared to do vanilla versions too - I'm sure Bachmann's will be equally diverse - I am certainly not going to be partisan about it. Currently, the only AS 31 I have on order is 31019 having "missed" 31248 and thinking the Hornby versions I have are OK but I will certainly be getting  future examples from both manufacturers as their choices become apparent. We are fortunate to have such potential choice - It's a long journey from D5572 in my case.

[charliepetty]

5 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Ever listened to an Accurascale 92? The noisy ones are brill.

Yes its a brilliant sound, supplied to ESU/Accurascale from Legomanbiffo.  And its still available from them & Accurascale.

Edited February 6 by charliepetty

[Titan]

All axle drive? The gear on the centre axle will have to have a different ratio if they are using the correct size wheels. Would have thought having the centre axle non-driven would be acceptable in this case...

[XChris]

41 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

 

Hmm, well that certainly takes the 'blame Hornby for everything' approach to new heights...

 

Well I’m sorry but, they’ve proven they can deliver a new tooling to good standards, and the Flirt unit they are doing looks to be a of a great standard. However by not developing on what they have, which was the best (& only) tooled 31 on the market they have now lost that high end spec loco. They pumped out railroad models in all kinds of liveries but where was this in the higher spec model? No where to be seen and as such a void was created and now filled by AS & Bachmann am I wrong? If they had of updated the tooling and DCC circuits do you think there would have still been a gap for AS & Bachmann to try, I don’t think so, so yes it is Hornby’s fault and they need to learn use the high spec toolings or loose them with other manufacturers sniffing around, look at the 56 and the 60, Hornby’s is a good model. However cavalex’s 56 is better and I expect the 60 will be as well, if you leave a gap it will be filled. Build it and they will come (or buy it in this case!).

 

 @Covkid but if Hornby had of re-tooled or upgraded there 31 then they would have been getting rid of Mazak problems with a new release and then AS wouldn’t have had as much of an opportunity with the 31. I see your point and I agree that AS have a more streamlined business case and are able to probably provide better value for money on a detailed loco, but we can’t be sure because an RRP hasn’t been announced yet, although I do agree I think the price point of the Bachmann 31 will be higher than AS. That is life but if the model is the loco I want in the livery I want I’ll buy either, why because they have built it!

[Mr chapman]

Well the coupler is a great addition. If they are working on a retooled 08 or something in the background... Makes you wonder what they will announce tomorrow if they let this one out early. 

[richierich]

Big differential factor between the Accurascale Class 31 and the alternative manufacturers is offering the drop in wheelsets for EM and P4 (which Cavelex are also doing). 
 

Bachmann have never offered such support.
 

My personal impression is they have no ambition to do so either. 

Edited February 6 by richierich

[richierich]

Bachmann gone with an unprototypical Co-Co all axles drive like Hornby 2005 super detailed model… The real loco is A-I-A with smaller I think 3’ 3/4” wheels on the centre wheelset, and 3’ 7” outer diameter wheels on the driving axles. 

 

Edited February 6 by richierich
Re-read the Bachmann specifications.

[Roy Langridge]

As somebody who loves 31s and has shares in 6 of the real thing, I should have been excited by this but, as others have said, meh.
 

I have several Accurascale versions on order and they are close to being delivered that I am getting excited anout them. 
 

I do look forward to being able to compare the two, but I don’t see anything radical that will make this new offering better by far, if at all. 
 

Roy

[TomScrut]

2 hours ago, XChris said:

In my opinion the only people to blame for two new 31’s on the market is Hornby

 

I completely agree. Those who are suggesting Bachmann copied Accurascale must think that Bachmann have the ability to develop models faster than them, which I doubt. Especially given the same happened with the 37, that's a lot of string pulling.

 

I fully expect that both companies saw an opportunity and ended up meeting in the middle.

 

Reminds me a bit of a scene in a certain film...

 

Edited February 6 by TomScrut

[montyburns56]

Do we know how this automatic uncoupler is going to work in practical terms? Will it lift the hook or lower the coupling bar?

[Enterprisingwestern]

25 minutes ago, richierich said:

Big differential factor between the Accurascale Class 31 and the alternative manufacturers is offering the drop in wheelsets for EM and P4 (which Cavelex are also doing). 
 

Bachmann have never offered such support.
 

My personal impression is they have no ambition to do so either. 

 

I take it you've never done an Accurascale "drop in" wheelset change?

Give me Bachmann every time.

 

Mike.

[Darius43]

Just now, montyburns56 said:

Do we know how this automatic uncoupler is going to work in practical terms? Will it lift the hook or lower the coupling bar?

If you watch the video posted on the other thread you can see how it works.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Butler Henderson]

1 hour ago, TomScrut said:

 

I completely agree. Those who are suggesting Bachmann copied Accurascale must think that Bachmann have the ability to develop models faster than them, which I doubt. Especially given the same happened with the 37, that's a lot of string pulling.

 

I fully expect that both companies saw an opportunity and ended up meeting in the middle.

 

In the video the development of the model bloke is referenced as picking it up when he joined two years ago. So the 31 was planned more than two years ago and under the old annual announcement of what we will release in the next 18 months (er make that 3 to 6 years) I expect in would have been in such a 2021 announcement or if not 2022 just before Accuracale announced theirs.

Edited February 6 by Butler Henderson

[brushman47544]

2 hours ago, Geep7 said:

I'm somewhat in the same boat. In the era I model, the Class 30/31's were strangers on the Southern and Western region. I have a sole example on order (fully paid I should add, so no point in cancelling) from Accurascale in Green with Full Yellow Ends, which covers the early allocations to the Western Region, and would have just been seen on the Southern on the Cardiff - Portsmouth service. I may be tempted by a Blue pre-TOPS example, if Bachmann does one (they have a habit of ignoring the late 60's / early 70's era), but I won't rush to get one.

Not just Cardiff - Portsmouth. Class 31s took over from the Hymeks on the van trains from the WR (Reading) to Redhill in the late 1960s, appearing in at least green with FYE and BR blue.

 

I too am not a fan of the Peds as they took over from my preferred hydraulics and 25s down west, but I did have a soft spot for 31135 with its unique extended yellow cab windows, so would probably buy that.

 

I had been hoping from some more 47s (in particular green with FYE) this announcement to beat Heljan to market as Bachmann did with the 37s but I fear we will now see a stream of quarterly 31s at the expense of other diesels as we did with those 37s. Or perhaps I’ll be pleasantly surprised tomorrow.

[TomScrut]

Just now, Butler Henderson said:

In the video the development of the model bloke is refereneced as picking it up when he joined two years ago. So the 31 was planned more tahn two years ago and under the old annual announcement of what we will release in the next 18 months (er make that 3 to 6 years) I expect in would have been in such a 2021 announcment or if not 2022 just before Accuracale announced theirs.

 

The fact that when AS announced theirs 2 years ago to the month they had EPs also suggests that Bachmann were well on the way with it by then too.

[97406]

1 hour ago, 40002 said:

Well OK i'm not a rivet counter but I have the latest version of the Bachmann 40 and while its not perfect i'm reasonably happy with it. The biggest improvement for me was the ability to individually turn off the Tail lights, plus the the 40 doesn't have the multitude of liveries and variations the 31 has. But as commented Bachmann may have an updated version in the pipeline, and possibly of course other manufacturers.

 

The latest 40 has a great thrashy sound file, but it needs a lot doing to it to get it up to scratch. Whilst I enjoy that sort of thing, the class really deserves a new model, especially given the sheer number of variations. The CADs for the KR one just aren't up to scratch yet, but I'm in market for a retooled Bachmann or new Accurascale one to go with the detailed Bachmann ones.

 

[wombatofludham]

1 hour ago, AY Mod said:

 

Ever listened to an Accurascale 92? The noisy ones are brill.

Not in the metal, but if it is anything like the Accurascale 37 I took to run on the last day of the Dolgellau exhibition, which even impressed the ordinaries, I expect it will be a corker especially as the 92s have a roarer-like quality in real life.

[richierich]

43 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I take it you've never done an Accurascale "drop in" wheelset change?

Give me Bachmann every time.

 

Mike.

I didn’t think Bachmann (and others) had sufficient clearance to the bogie frame side / and or brake / suspension detail gets in the way of EM or P4 wheelsets?

[GenericRMWebUsername]

Neat models! I'm intrigued by the automatic uncoupling system. There's a sequence, portrayed in the video, that it automatically goes through with sound. It looked good to me. I'm curious to know what hardware it uses. An inherent downside of more hardware/motors is the increased chance of failure. The best way to avoid a component failing is by not including it in the first place! But obviously, that reductionism can get in the way of new features being added. The next best way to avoid a component failing is to make the process as simple as possible. I hope the hardware in the uncouplers is not too complex or fragile. That will also help with repairs and maintenance. The uncoupling system also has to work every single time. If it's unreliable, then it could create a great deal of resentment. 

 

If it works and is reliable, I think this feature will become a nice selling point for Bachmann. Other manufacturers are going to race to include something like this. It's the sort of feature that I think could become non-negotiable for certain modelers. 

 

Kudos to Bachmann for investing in this. It's these sort of features that will give the model an edge. 

[Krieghoff]

I have several Accurascale versions on order but im really pleased that Bachmann have released these. Hopefully i will have one or two provided the liveries are appropriate. Its good to see manufacturers bringing these superb locomotives to us but im minded that a certain other manufacturer seems to bs getting left behind.