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Dapol 'Western'

Andy Y

By Andy Y,
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Roy Langridge

Roy Langridge

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I know it will have been said somewhere in the previous 135 pages but could someone post a photo indicating the 'offending' clips? I live in a happy world where to my eye the only significant difference between one Western and another is the name and numberplate :)

 

Just below the windscreen above the headcode box.

 

Without: https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8483/8246016941_6f70d80ef0_z.jpg

 

With https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/04/1023_1z15_Paddington_extra_service_at_Exeter_St_Davids_-_geograph.org.uk_-_734618.jpg/440px-1023_1z15_Paddington_extra_service_at_Exeter_St_Davids_-_geograph.org.uk_-_734618.jpg

Roy

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Enterprisingwestern

Enterprisingwestern

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Close, but no cigar!

Talisman clips are battery box clips fitted after the Ealing derailment.

 

Mike.

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owentherail

owentherail

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Is there any Western with a longer name that it could be renumbered as that did have the clips (and any other tell-tale differences)?

 

I do like the look if it and may just have to get one. Rule 1 can apply with it working onto my 1970s Southern layout occasionally until I get a Western micro-layout done for my D6xx on order.

 

Edit: I wondering about D1019 Western Challenger - that has the clips and the nameplate may be as long. Not an expert on Westerns so don't know what else to watch for.

 

Thanks,

 

Roy

Pathfinder or ambassador had longer plates or file off headboard clips

post-2972-0-55833000-1498678133_thumb.jpeg

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bigherb

bigherb

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But aren't we talking about headboard clips?

 

Roy

No, Western Talisman was the locomotive that the battery box door dropped open and changed the points under the locomotive hence the fitting of modified battery box door clips.

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Roy Langridge

Roy Langridge

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No, Western Talisman was the locomotive that the battery box door dropped open and changed the points under the locomotive hence the fitting of modified battery box door clips.

 

Now I am confused, if you refer to post 3364 (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/33639-Dapol-western/page-135&do=findComment&comment=2766082) I thought we were discussing headboard clips, not battery box clips. So now I don't know which clips post 3369 was asking about.

​Roy

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Geoff Endacott

Geoff Endacott

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Filing off the headboard clips is tricky on a weathered model because it is hard to match the weathering to hide where the clips used to be,

 

To summarise, headboard clips are the two clips below the cab windows which were used, not surprisingly, to attach headboards. All except D1025-29 were built with them, but several others lost them at at least one end when they were rebuilt following repairs to accident damage.

 

The "Talisman Clips" were fitted to the surviving locomotives after the Ealing derailment in 1973. There were four clips on each side which held the battery box covers in place. These are the panels below the solebar, two each side of the maker's plate. The covers hinged downwards and it was one of these which came open and struck a point machine, leading to the derailment. The original clips were smaller and deemed to be unsatisfactory and this was one factor which led to the accident. Larger clips were then fitted to surviving locomotives so that the covers were closed more securely.

 

Dapol have produced different models featuring both types of clip.

 

The nickname Talisman Clips stems from the fact that they were fitted after the accident involving Western Talisman, Of course, the eponymous Talisman itself never received the clips because it was withdrawn following the accident. The only Westerns to receive them were those in traffic from 1974-77. Before then end of 1973, all Westerns had the original clips.

 

Geoff Endacott

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MikeParkin65

MikeParkin65

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Now I am confused, if you refer to post 3364 (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/33639-Dapol-western/page-135&do=findComment&comment=2766082) I thought we were discussing headboard clips, not battery box clips. So now I don't know which clips post 3369 was asking about.

​Roy

I was definitely asking about headboard clips and am grateful for your swift reply and clear photo's. I dont know who started going on about 'Talisman' but I ignored it as it wasnt relevant to my question.

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Roy Langridge

Roy Langridge

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I was definitely asking about headboard clips and am grateful for your swift reply and clear photo's. I dont know who started going on about 'Talisman' but I ignored it as it wasnt relevant to my question.

 

I'll have that cigar then that Enterprisingwestern was denying me ;-)

 

Roy

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Geoff Endacott

Geoff Endacott

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The issue of Talisman clips becomes relevant if you want to renumber the Hatton's D1026. The model has the Talisman clips so for accuracy should not be renumbered to a Western which didn't get them. If you are not bothered about this, why bother about the headboard clips either? Hatton's didn't.

 

Geoff Endacott

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cctransuk

cctransuk

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The issue of Talisman clips becomes relevant if you want to renumber the Hatton's D1026. The model has the Talisman clips so for accuracy should not be renumbered to a Western which didn't get them. If you are not bothered about this, why bother about the headboard clips either? Hatton's didn't.

 

Geoff Endacott

 

.... or remove the clips - simples !

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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Gwiwer

Gwiwer

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I understood we were currently talking about headboard clips. These are on the front ends. "Talisman" clips refer to those used subsequent to Talisman's demise at West Ealing and are on the battery boxes of later survivors only and which are below the body side panels amidships.

 

Regarding the weathering the current offering from Hattons appears to exactly replicate the privately-commissioned version as I noted above. It's not even "similar to" but appears to have been a request by one party to the factory to "make it look exactly like this".

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Enterprisingwestern

Enterprisingwestern

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Challenger didn't last long enough to get the Talisman clips which the Hatton's model has.

 

(I think it exploded after take-off in 1986, by maybe I'm getting confused.)

 

Geoff Endacott

 

 

I know it will have been said somewhere in the previous 135 pages but could someone post a photo indicating the 'offending' clips? I live in a happy world where to my eye the only significant difference between one Western and another is the name and numberplate :)

 

 

 

 

Close, but no cigar!

Talisman clips are battery box clips fitted after the Ealing derailment.

 

Mike.

 

Decide for yourself whether you get the cigar?

 

Mike.

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Roy Langridge

Roy Langridge

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Decide for yourself whether you get the cigar?

 

Mike.

I do as the post I replied to was not asking about Talisman clips :-)

 

 

I was definitely asking about headboard clips and am grateful for your swift reply and clear photo's. I dont know who started going on about 'Talisman' but I ignored it as it wasnt relevant to my question.

 

Anyhow, I smoked it in my dreams last night - best I can manage having given up many years ago.

 

Roy

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brushman47544

brushman47544

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The issue of Talisman clips becomes relevant if you want to renumber the Hatton's D1026. The model has the Talisman clips so for accuracy should not be renumbered to a Western which didn't get them. If you are not bothered about this, why bother about the headboard clips either? Hatton's didn't.

 

Geoff Endacott

 

Regarding the weathering the current offering from Hattons appears to exactly replicate the privately-commissioned version as I noted above. It's not even "similar to" but appears to have been a request by one party to the factory to "make it look exactly like this".

 

In case there's some confusion, the weathered Dapol model of D1026 is not a Hatton's commission, it is a standard Dapol release that is or has been available from all Dapol stockists. The use of the weathering effect produced by Mercig for Kernow's limited editions D1068 and D1050 for other releases such as this will presumably be governed by the agreement between Kernow and Dapol. It has nothing to do with Hatton's, who are simply one of many selling the Dapol model.

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Legend

Legend

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Just bought my first Dapol 52 from Hattons. It's surprising that having always fancied one I've not bought Trix, Lima, Hornby or Heljan versions. It was with some Trepidation , having read some quality concerns over the 73 and 68, I ordered Dapol Western Cavalier from Hattons. What a stunning loco. She is a tad noisy, but nothing too disturbing . My first loco purchase this year and I think my enjoyment has increased because of this.

 

A couple of questions . I'm running DC only . Is there anyway of turning the cab lights off? There don't appear to be any switches. Secondly I remember seeing these locos at Newquay in 1975, I think one may well have been Western Cavalier , also at Torquay. I was on holiday and my parents used to park in the Station car parks when visiting in our hired Caravanette. Good way of watching trains. What head codes would be suitable for a Newquay or Paignton service. I suspect that the trains I saw were inter regional and not from Paddington , but the head code would relate to the destination wouldn't it?

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Gwiwer

Gwiwer

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Cross-country headcodes would be in the series 1V__ towards the Western Region from another region, or when leaving the WR they would be 1E__ for a desintation in the Eastern Region, 1M__ for LMR and 1S__ for a train through to Scotland.  Not many trains would run to the Southern Region but any which did would be 1O__ taking the second letter of Southern as S was already in use for Scottish.  Internal Western Region codes would be 1A__ for a destination in the London division, 1B__ for West of England division and 1C__ for South Wales division.  Replace the 1 with a 2 for local stopping trains.

 

The Dapol Westerns have been generally very good models.  A few have been reported as noisy, generally audible gear noise, but it hasn't affected performance.  I have one noisy one which hasn't faltered after several years and many hours in service.  Watch out though if you apply the detail packs since the cab steps can foul the bogie swing as can the front valence if fitted.  

 

I overcame those problems by removing the entire coupler shank behind the valence and by fixing the cab steps slightly out of line.  I also found i necessary to rub the suspension mouldings very lightly with wet and dry to eliminate occasional contact between bogie- and body-mounted parts which led to derailments.

 

With ten of them now in the fleet I'm pretty happy overall. I don't buy that sort of quantity if they are lemons.

Edited by Gwiwer
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Gwiwer

Gwiwer

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The whole design of the headcode box is fascinating. I did wonder if there was enough space to cram in some sort of system of changeable blinds....

 

It might be possible.  I don't like the supplied stick-on labels.  I broke in and fitted my headcodes inside the glazing.  It's a bit fussy but I got there. Having done one the technique was learned for the rest.  You do have to be caeful prising the cab assembly away as most of them are well glued in place. then you have to be very careful to not damage the assembly which holds the headcode panels and which is basically sticky pads holding each other in place.  I slipped the required numerals inside the glazing having prised the sticky stuff away and found it necessary to also use a tiny piece of scrap material as packing to keep the numerals in place and hard against the glazing.

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Horsetan

Horsetan

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.....  I slipped the required numerals inside the glazing....

I went the other way and bought new blinds from Precision Labels. It was the way that PL supply all of the characters in dedicated blind strips that got me thinking.....

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