Bachmann announce Mk2f's

[YesTor]

Looks very promising indeed - they certainly capture the look of the 2f's and the DBSO also appears to be developing well.

 

I really, REALLY don't want to start any negativity..............however you know there's a BUT coming.........

 

But, as there are end wire handrails and wire lifting handles on the air con hatch even, why have we gone back to moulded grab rails and handrails along the side of the body? Surely, wire handrails on the bodyside are more of a necessity than on the end of the vehicle? I'd rather have the fine detail than Gucci switching lights or whatever it does.

 

Is this to attract the modeller who finds fitting lighting to be beyond them, and as a compromise, the handrails are all moulded?

 

Like I say, I don't want to pick at what appears to be a very fine development, however, I just can't get over the thinking behind moulded rails on an otherwise fully detailed and superlative model...

 

While the coaches do generally look very nice indeed, I must say that I have to echo the above sentiment.  Moulded grabrails are indeed a bit surprising and naturally disappointing, and so too quite a bit of moulded-on detail on the coach ends (lamp brackets, cabling etc), as well as on the DBSO front end.  No excuse really, as Oxford seem to have achieved similar separately added parts on the coach ends of their imminent Mk III.  Personally, if it comes down to a choice between interior lighting and finer detail, then while lights are of course nice (if not a little gimmicky, and I'm fairly sure that the novelty will wear off?), I would much rather see efforts going into improved detailing... particularly on a coach falling into the £60 plus price bracket...

Edited July 8, 2017 by YesTor

[BR(S)]

Any pictures of the tail lamp blanking plate? Its going to look a bit odd.

I am surprised nobody has asked yet in the era of rivet counting.

I hope they do the research on the DBSOs as there was 2 versions.

I think it's the black piece that can be seen in the sixth picture down in post #364.

[griffgriff]

Any pictures of the tail lamp blanking plate? Its going to look a bit odd.

I am surprised nobody has asked yet in the era of rivet counting.

I hope they do the research on the DBSOs as there was 2 versions.

... because we are too busy fitting lazer glaze to our bashed Airfix cofins

[stovepipe]

Any pictures of the tail lamp blanking plate? Its going to look a bit odd.

I am surprised nobody has asked yet in the era of rivet counting.

And in the second to last photo.

[jjb1970]

These look excellent, really looking forward to their release. I'll be going for the vanilla versions without DCC but I certainly like the idea of offering a bells and whistles digital version provided they are accompanied by normal versions for those of us who don't want all that stuff. On the moulded handles, I'll wait until we see the final models but I'm not against selective use of moulded detail and there is no reason why it can't be done without really affecting the look of the model. HO manufacturers mix separately applied details with moulded detail (and have done for decades) and if done well it works. Hornby got pilloried for design clever but the basic concept of choosing whether or not to use separate parts or moulded details to achieve an optimum cost - appearance compromise seems eminently sensible to me.

[YesTor]

...(and have done for decades)

 

Precisely my point... we are no longer in the 1950's...  

Edited July 8, 2017 by YesTor

[tractor_37260]

While the coaches do generally look very nice indeed, I must say that I have to echo the above sentiment.  Moulded grabrails are indeed a bit surprising and naturally disappointing, and so too quite a bit of moulded-on detail on the coach ends (lamp brackets, cabling etc), as well as on the DBSO front end.  No excuse really, as Oxford seem to have achieved similar separately added parts on the coach ends of their imminent Mk III.  Personally, if it comes down to a choice between interior lighting and finer detail, then while lights are of course nice (if not a little gimmicky, and I'm fairly sure that the novelty will wear off?), I would much rather see efforts going into improved detailing... particularly on a coach falling into the £60 plus price bracket...

 

Considering the prices of these coaches, both separate handrails/details and lighting features should all be possible...................................

Edited July 8, 2017 by tractor_37260

[Johnfromoz]

I have to chuckle at this revelation (if true) that the Bachmann aircons will have moulded handrails and grabrails. Remembering the hysteria of scorn that met the release of Hornby's aircons, I am so glad I disregarded this and purchased two or three rakes with several priced as low as 13 pounds in clearance sales etc.

 

Once the obvious flaw with the visible solebar is addressed easily, I find them more than acceptable, even with some vent errors on carriage roofs. Flush glazing, printing and lining are, in my view superb (except for blue and grey.) The lighted versions, while not brilliant, can be picked up for about 14 notes now and then. Other than the DBSO I have no interest in the Bachmann efffort which is shaping up as not being that much better than Hornby but at maybe triple the price!

[Legend]

I have to chuckle at this revelation (if true) that the Bachmann aircons will have moulded handrails and grabrails. Remembering the hysteria of scorn that met the release of Hornby's aircons, I am so glad I disregarded this and purchased two or three rakes with several priced as low as 13 pounds in clearance sales etc.

Once the obvious flaw with the visible solebar is addressed easily, I find them more than acceptable, even with some vent errors on carriage roofs. Flush glazing, printing and lining are, in my view superb (except for blue and grey.) The lighted versions, while not brilliant, can be picked up for about 14 notes now and then. Other than the DBSO I have no interest in the Bachmann efffort which is shaping up as not being that much better than Hornby but at maybe triple the price!

How did you deal with the solebar?

 

As with you , because of price , my only interest is DBSO. I haven't as yet got any Hornby 2es , I've stuck with Airfix , Dapol 2ds which you can pick up for a £10. Still a pretty fine coach considering they came out 40 years ago

[delticfan]

Can't exactly say these have been worth the wait, a good option now is super detailing the Hornby ones, far cheaper. I'm not forking out over forty quid for a coach with moulded detail out of principle.

[charliepetty]

NOT if they continue to fit Loksound Select decoders............................................. 

If anyone has some of the Bachmann Select Decoder, it is now possible to trade them is against V4 UK Select decoders, just contact Charlie@dckits.co.uk for more info.

 

Charlie

[tractor_37260]

If anyone has some of the Bachmann Select Decoder, it is now possible to trade them is against V4 UK Select decoders, just contact Charlie@dckits.co.uk for more info.

 

Charlie

 

Morning after typo perhaps ? did you mean trade in a Select against a Loksound V4 ? maybe not ..............................

[159220]

Sorry I could not resist doing this.... and the winner is?

 

(top Hornby EP, bottom Bachmann EP)

 

Photo credits: Hornby Mk2e from Hornby's The Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/officialhornby/posts/10151914416510843 and Bachmann Mk2F from this thread.

 

Bachmann wins! Seeing as there is a RRP price difference of £10.04 (for the non-DCC/lights) version you get a wealth of more detail with Bachmann....notwithstanding the sole bar being correctly hidden! Though in defence of Hornby's Mk2E, it is not that bad! 

 

Wheels appear to be slightly smaller on the Mk2F, thus providing a more prototypical ride height. 

 

As for etched vs moulded handrails. I was staring out of the window on the Anglia Short Sets this week (when stationary at stations!), I would hazard they are a difficult shape to capture in 1:76 with a etched metal. If they were to be separate parts, I would suggest a plastic handrail would have to be made. This might not be preferential for many reasons, I can think of two majors in that they would be highly fragile and would have to be overscale to fit. So for me personally, I do not see an issue with the handrails being moulded. The Bachmann offering is clearly winning on all other details. And when you upgrade to the DCC coach, nice! 

 

I am looking forward to announcements for more modern liveries on them.

 

Edit: Did Hornby place the air-conditioning roof panel at the wrong end - or is there a difference between Mk2e and Mk2f. Wikipedia is inconclusive. 

Edited July 9, 2017 by 159220

[mark54]

Did Hornby place the air-conditioning roof panel at the wrong end - or is there a difference between Mk2e and Mk2f. Wikipedia is inconclusive. 

I think in that pre-production example, Hornby have the body on the wrong way round in relation to the under frame

[Hilux5972]

What are the differences between the Mk2E and Mk2F coaches?

[BR(S)]

Many thanks to Bachmann for their response to my query regarding livery and CDL light combinations:

 

We have several tooling options available to us on the forthcoming Bachmann Branchline OO scale MK2F coaches, one of which is the ability to produce models both with and without the central door locking lights. Such features will be included on models where relevant to the vehicle, livery and era being modelled. Initially the models will be available in BR Blue & Grey and BR InterCity Executive liveries and as such these models will not feature the central door locking lights – with the exception of the BR Blue & Grey RMB (39-685/39-685DC) which is based on a preserved vehicle which is fitted with these lights.

 

It's the answer I was hoping for as I mostly want Intercity livery without.

Edited July 9, 2017 by BR(S)

[griffgriff]

What are the differences between the Mk2E and Mk2F coaches?

Well a similarity is wheel size... post #399 worries me!

 

Griff

[tractor_37260]

What are the differences between the Mk2E and Mk2F coaches?

 

Mk2 D  has two toilets, both on the same side of the coach.

 

Mk2 E  has two toilets, in opposite corners (right hand end of the coach as you look at it side on). It has two more seats than the Mk2d as the toilets were smaller.

 

there may also be minor differences in the under frame equip also................

[Flood]

What are the differences between the Mk2E and Mk2F coaches?

Exterior wise it's only really the underframe.

 

Mk2E have Stones air conditioning with 2 fans on the box (the box to the left of this is also different) and on the other side they have a pressure ventilation box on the underframe. Mk2F have Temperature Ltd air conditioning with one large fan on the box and no pressure ventilation unit on the other side.

 

Early Mk2E had the deeper door windows and also water tank fillers on the roof. Later ones had the new doors (but doors could be swapped anyway) and no water tank filler hatches on the roof.

 

Mk2F were built with hydraulic dampers on their B4s, all others were built with friction dampers but these changed after privatisation.

 

Finally the interiors. Most Mk2F had InterCity70 seats with centre arm rests (very uncomfortable when using overnight services), all the other Mk2 stock had the Mk2 style seating in second class with no centre arm rests.

 

For even more detail between the air con Mk2 types please see this thread:http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/68714-mk2-air-conditioned-coaches-detail-differences/

[Flood]

 

Edit: Did Hornby place the air-conditioning roof panel at the wrong end - or is there a difference between Mk2e and Mk2f. Wikipedia is inconclusive. 

It should really have been obvious to Hornby (if they had been bothered to even think) that the grills for the air conditioning ducts would be at the same end as the air conditioning unit roof hatch!

 

Lots of photos of Mk2 air cons here:http://80srail.zenfolio.com/p46631637

[surfsup]

Something else I've noticed with those two comparison images - The Bachmann one certainly shows up how 'square' the Hornby windows look, something that's always bugged me with the Hornby effort.

Being a little bit fairer though, I think we always knew that Hornby's efforts were always going to be 'knock em out' quickly models with an average mix of detail with an average price to boot, whereas Bachmann's was always going to be the full blown, higher detailed and more expensive efforts. Like a piece of steak for example, I could go to Tesco and buy a standard version (railroad) or a Finest version (Hornby main range), or I could go to Waitrose and buy one there (Bachmann).

Sorry, could you tell what I'm having for dinner tonight.

[surfsup]

Many thanks to Bachmann for their response to my query regarding livery and CDL light combinations:

 

We have several tooling options available to us on the forthcoming Bachmann Branchline OO scale MK2F coaches, one of which is the ability to produce models both with and without the central door locking lights. Such features will be included on models where relevant to the vehicle, livery and era being modelled. Initially the models will be available in BR Blue & Grey and BR InterCity Executive liveries and as such these models will not feature the central door locking lights – with the exception of the BR Blue & Grey RMB (39-685/39-685DC) which is based on a preserved vehicle which is fitted with these lights.

 

It's the answer I was hoping for as I mostly want Intercity livery without.

Ah, interesting to see they're choosing to model the Cargo D Mk2 RMBs!

[robertcwp]

Something else I've noticed with those two comparison images - The Bachmann one certainly shows up how 'square' the Hornby windows look, something that's always bugged me with the Hornby effort.

 

Being a little bit fairer though, I think we always knew that Hornby's efforts were always going to be 'knock em out' quickly models with an average mix of detail with an average price to boot, whereas Bachmann's was always going to be the full blown, higher detailed and more expensive efforts. Like a piece of steak for example, I could go to Tesco and buy a standard version (railroad) or a Finest version (Hornby main range), or I could go to Waitrose and buy one there (Bachmann).

 

Sorry, could you tell what I'm having for dinner tonight.

I usually shop at Waitrose. I have one five minutes' walk from home. I'm planning on replacing my rather indifferent Hornby 2e set with Bachmann 2fs. The shape will be better, the detail will be better, the livery will (hopefully) be a lot better and the windows will look right. And I'm not in the least bit concerned about moulded grab handles, in fact I prefer them as the separate ones on some Hornby stock are too fragile and you can't tell the difference at normal viewing distances on the layout anyway.

[robertcwp]

 

 

Mk2E have Stones air conditioning with 2 fans on the box (the box to the left of this is also different) and on the other side they have a pressure ventilation box on the underframe. Mk2F have Temperature Ltd air conditioning with one large fan on the box and no pressure ventilation unit on the other side.

 

 

Quite a few of the 2f open firsts had Stones air-con, such as this one:

P1030511M by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

Some of the buffet conversions were also Stones ones.

[Flood]

Quite a few of the 2f open firsts had Stones air-con, such as this one:

P1030511M by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

Some of the buffet conversions were also Stones ones.

I was trying to keep things relatively simple Robert. As we both know there are quite a few variations, e.g. the latest ScotRail Mk2D TSO I numbered needs to have Temperature Ltd air con instead of Stones. 5653 was the only one like this.