Where are the Hornby models?

[robmcg]

here's a new one just for you Larry... a Hornby model purchased in the last few weeks too. Presumably the new Hornby models include versions of the B1?

 

 

 

[Andy Hayter]

BR(S)

 

Sorry still no quotes in Micros@@@ but your post  #918

 

Sorry you don't like the brave new world.  To be honest I don't either but the difference between us seems to be that I can accept reality and you seem to believe that denial will solve the world's ills.

Life is a bitch and then you die - get used to it.

[coachmann]

Thanks...Those Scottish ones looked quite different.

[robmcg]

And yet some Scottish engines were kept cleaner than English versions...  clearly not this named B1, rounder running board fillets and all. Eastfield then Corkerhill according to my shed book.  I wonder what work this engine generally did in later BR days?

[Crewlisle]

I don't think it's right to target anyone personally within their role but the modelling community is left in a position where Simon is the one accessible medium who bears the brunt of any frsustrations. He's more than happy to be accessible too and has often said that people are free to contact him directly (but the numbers who do are comparatively few) and as a the representative of Hornby he's well used to it.

 

Well said Andy.  I had concerns earlier this year about DofG having moulded handrails and other cheap shortcuts after reading about them from RMWeb contributors.  As usual, rumours get blown out of all proportion so the only thing to do is to write to the man who knows.  In this case Simon Kohler.   I posted a copy of my correspondence with him and Hornby In this Hornby section under 'Duke of Gloucester' on 23/4/13, Comment 76.  At exhibitions, I have always found Simon willing to discuss anything and is always a pleasure to talk to.

 

Question:  How many people (even GWR modellers) would be concerned that the Hornby Star has12 spoke bogie wheels as opposed to 10 and make a song-and-dance about it with SK?  A very small number as most would realise that there has to be minor compromises with all models.

 

Keep up the good work Simon!

[Ozexpatriate]

Question:  How many people (even GWR modellers) would be concerned that the Hornby Star has12 spoke bogie wheels as opposed to 10 and make a song-and-dance about it with SK?

Since you asked, the only reason I didn't write to Mr. Kohler about the wheels was that I know it was brought to his personal attention and didn't see the need to further inform him or pile on. Doubtless he is a busy man. (I did contact him regarding the wrong bogies on the B set coaches and he replied very promptly, during a holiday weekend, and ultimately fixed the problem.)

 

Surely you're not suggesting that it should take all of us to telephone or email him to get his attention? We certainly could do that, if that is what it now takes.

 

A very small number as most would realise that there has to be minor compromises with all models.

The moulded cabside rail is a design compromise. It is what it is.

 

The 12 spoked bogie wheels are a mistake, not a design compromise. Even the Albert Hall model from the 1970s has 10-spoked wheels.

[Nimbus]

The shift in perceived shareholder value from stable companies that provide an annual dividend* to quarter by quarter growth in stock price is the root cause of much that is criticized here. It is certainly not limited to model railway production. Companies are no longer valued for providing stable jobs or consistent stable profit over time. Quarterly growth is the criteria by which the market measures performance. The unintended consequences of this shift have changed everything and, I think, not for the better.

 

* Which is the way Hornby tries to operate.

 

Significantly, I think, many German companies are immune from this by virtue of still being privately or family owned. So thankfully there remains an alternative business model in operation for us to study and learn from. Not that, from what I read recently, it makes the German public feel much better off than we do.

 

The Nim.

[BR(S)]

 

BR(S)

 

Sorry still no quotes in Micros@@@ but your post  #918

 

Sorry you don't like the brave new world.  To be honest I don't either but the difference between us seems to be that I can accept reality and you seem to believe that denial will solve the world's ills.

Life is a bitch and then you die - get used to it.

 

It's difficult to respond to this without getting a little personal but you did write the above, so . . .  

 

To read that someone doesn't like something but they "accept reality" and we've all got to accept that "Life is a bitch" is very disturbing.  Whose reality are you accepting exactly and if you don't like it, why are you accepting it?  By your own words you don't like the "brave new world" but you are quite happy to just roll over and let it happen, regardless of how detrimental it might be?!  You don't just have to be born, accept the culture you find yourself in and then go back to non-existence you know; in that bit of time between the two bits of non-existence, you can say that something's crap and needs to be done differently (and even offer alternatives) (hell, if you really want to push the boat out you can even live the alternatives).  

 

I have quite the opposite position to the denial that you state.  I quite agree and recognise that we have a section of the population who have realised, for a host of reasons, that they have to stamp their feet and scream and shout to try and get their way.  I'm also willing to unequivocally say how repulsive I find this approach and that there are plenty of alternatives.  Indeed, on RMweb, these alternatives are displayed in great number by the non-brat contributors and there are many of them.  As I said above, these are the thoughtful, rational, experienced, knowledgeable people who discuss things, rather than resorting to yelling and screaming while simultaneously suffering from fingers-in-ears syndrome.  They understand that there are "grown-up" things that have to be considered in these discussions, such as those alluded to above by Ozexpatriate. 

 

If we could just get these people to start having the loudest voice again in all areas of our lives, I think we might even all start to become a little happier.  Maybe RMweb threads about Warley 2013 wouldn't then be littered with anecdotes about how people were pushed out of the way of such-and-such layout because someone more self-important wanted to see it and would have more about how someone had a lovely discussion with that nice Simon Kohler and we'd agreed to look at a change on the lining colour for XYZ steam engine.

 

I think people need to stop listening to the non-stop gibberish we now seem to spout about "survival of the fittest" and "human nature" and maybe start reading a little more widely. 

[robmcg]

Significantly, I think, many German companies are immune from this by virtue of still being privately or family owned. So thankfully there remains an alternative business model in operation for us to study and learn from. Not that, from what I read recently, it makes the German public feel much better off than we do.

 

The Nim.

 

That business model can be just as toxic as that prevalent in other western countries. Bauer Media are a family-owned German business and have bought a lot of Australasian magazine and publishing titles, for which the future outlook was not necessarily good, and continues to be a race to the bottom. Anodyne stories often brazenly shifted from one country to another in contravention of simple principles like truth, almost reluctant apologies when exposed, and apparent desire to produce 'efficiencies' and of course it's not the fault of the business model that quality journalism and the print business is declining...

 

Not the same as debt-burdened takeovers like that which led to the demise of Sanda Kan, I admit... and one might ask what alternative path Hornby could have followed other than what it did, Olympic misdadventures excluded. The cost of doing business in China has risen as described elsewhere, and the shame is that the skills which Sanda Kan had may have been disbursed or lost.

 

This forum shows the high degree of good will towards Hornby which exists in the UK and elsewhere, and we I think all hope that impending announcements will presage a return to profitability and an enjoyable hobby for many, myself included.

 

The relatively public nature of Hornby's fortunes were perhaps less obvious back in the early 60s when Hornby was still producing quite expensive models, although hindsight suggests that in those days the toy market which Hornby covered was just as fast-changing as it is today, and identifying the profitable opportunities was just as hard as it is now.

[Ozexpatriate]

The relatively public nature of Hornby's fortunes were perhaps less obvious back in the early 60s when Hornby was still producing quite expensive models, although hindsight suggests that in those days the toy market which Hornby covered was just as fast-changing as it is today, and identifying the profitable opportunities was just as hard as it is now.

Rob,

 

Hindsight does suggest that things were just as fast-changing in the past as they are today.

 

I don't know if you've seen the series of articles on the history of model railway manufacturers in England that was published in several recent editions of the Bachmann Collectors Club magazine but they reminded me just how much churn there is in railway toy companies and the ebb and flow of companies and brands including Meccano, Lines Brothers, Tri-ang, Rovex, Dunbee Combex Marx, etc - and they're just the Hornby related ones.

 

We tend to think of Hornby as a monolithic entity, a company that has lasted for most of a century. It isn't and it didn't. The company in its current form really dates from 1981. But let's hope they can last through 2020 and beyond and celebrate a century of the brand - if not the current corporate entity.

[robmcg]

Rob,

 

Hindsight does suggest that things were just as fast-changing in the past as they are today.

 

I don't know if you've seen the series of articles on the history of model railway manufacturers in England that was published in several recent editions of the Bachmann Collectors Club magazine but they reminded me just how much churn there is in railway toy companies and the ebb and flow of companies and brands including Meccano, Lines Brothers, Tri-ang, Rovex, Dunbee Combex Marx, etc - and they're just the Hornby related ones.

 

We tend to think of Hornby as a monolithic entity, a company that has lasted for most of a century. It isn't and it didn't. The company in its current form really dates from 1981. But let's hope they can last through 2020 and beyond and celebrate a century of the brand - if not the current corporate entity.

 

Yes, I have had the good fortune to come to know Pat Hammond from MRE over recent years and have learned some of the complexities of the history of model railways, and he has been busy with an 8th Ramsay's Catalogue, now in two parts and with many more pages, probably, hopefully early next year in the shops. His tireless work in following all the twists and turns of various companies and their products is comprehensive.

 

The outlook for Hornby is better than it might have been, the market is still judged by most to be stable and the problems in the supply chain have at least been identified. It remains to be seen how supplies actually perform over the next year.

 

Rob

[Legend]

Well not long to wait now, and keeping individuals out of it, I'm waiting to see what marketing changes will be made. Will the catalogue be updated to give much more and correct information? Will there be a clear delineation between railroad and main range? At the moment you can't preorder with any confidence.

[jonathan452]

Slightly off topic - popped in-to that large toy shop in Regent Street tonight.

 

Mainly just to get a few of those concession 'graffiti' Railroad MGR wagons for a childs Christmas 'stocking filler'.

 

QUOTE FROM MY PREVIOUS POST EDITED FOR CLARITY

 

However I discovered the latest GBRF 'Limby' Class 66 being sold for £123(!) - a price on a par with some of the recent Bachmann Limited Editions.

 

Needless to say I pointed this out to the gentleman (Hornby Rep) concerned, who at first refused to believe me. Finally the floor manager checked the price, not only was the ticket on the box wrong but there was a data input error on the system.

Popped in there (Hamleys) again tonight on my walk up from Westminster to do more Christmas shopping in Oxford Street.

 

o.k. the price on the GBRF 'Limby' Class 66 has been corrected but only by way of a 'reduced' sticker from £123 to £65.

 

Rather misleading to say the least.

 

Just bring on those unsuspecting tourists!

[Mike70]

Anyone got any news on R2920X.

 

According to Hattons, it is still due after Christmas.

I took its absence from the 2014 announcement as a sign it might arrive before the new year.

[andytrains]

That would be the Hornby R2920X Class B17/1 Sandringham.

Yes, Hattons are saying in stock on or after Wednesday 25th December 2013.

So that will be November 2015 then!!!  

[Mike Storey]

As an indication of the changing times I caught a programme on a Radio 4 yesterday evening about the resurgent Mexican economy. Just a few years back Chinese average wages were 8x lower than those in Mexico, now Chinese average wages are on the verge of exceeding those in Mexico. Consequently Mexico is seeing large inwards investment by international manufacturing companies in the automotive and electronics fields, amongst others.

 

That is certainly happening, but it is as much to do with the North American Free Trade Agreement, as it is with labour costs. US companies have been outsourcing to Mexico for many years but the biggest obstacle was the import tariff into the USA, now largely removed for products from Canada and Mexico. I don't think it will affect European markets, but I see what you are getting at. Chinese labour costs are still only 20% of European average wages, despite recent rises, and other factors will cause a re-think on relocating model rail manufacture in the medium term, but certainly not in the short term. The big problem will be "to where?", if costs are to be minimised. 

[Mike Storey]

Has anyone seen an update on the Blue/Grey 4 VEP please? There is no mention in the Hornby release, and no update on its website, but at least they have not removed it.

[Graham_Muz]

Hornby's twitter feed just announced the following:

 

Due to manufacturing restraints this year some products have been delayed until 2014. See link for affected products: goo.gl/wtsMtg

 

IN case the short link does not work the full link is http://www.pdf.investintech.com/preview/682668b4-696a-11e3-95e2-003048d80846/index.html

[John M Upton]

Intriguingly that list does not include the very much missing in action BR Early Crest Star Class....  Maybe, just maybe I will still see one before the 25th...

No surprises that the rest is delayed, the chances of anything appearing in the next two or three days (which trading wise is all that is left of 2013) were incredibly slim.

[Venator]

As I read the description of SK's feelings at the time, it was not an 'outburst'. The subsequent offer of replacement 10-spoke wheels free does nothing but suggest credit on Hornby. I know SK well enough to say that he is patient and positive by nature, and not generally given to rudeness of any kind, let alone underestimating the model railway community.

 

Even though his job often requires him to be a public face, he should not have to defend the position of every moulding or rivet on a model, a task which he finds himself doing long after most of us would have given in to despair.

 

It should not be so personal, even though in a sense this post is in defence of SK.

 

Nor should this topic be locked.

 

Rob

 

That's not my experience of SK. I spoke to him about where I might obtain some extras for my 4VEP. Completely unprompted he said that he wanted to apologise for the mistakes made in the first class carriage (solid wall instead of detailed compartments). He said that their quality control had not been good enough and it would be rectified on future models. That's hardly trying to defend "every rivet" or moulding. 

 

Think realistically, you are representing a company. You cannot, not matter what you think, go round slating your own products. What message will that send out? SK is Hornby's rep, he has to put them in as much positive light as he can. Perhaps you can do that if you're both the owner and rep of a company but not if you're just an employee. 

[cobach47]

Been waiting for my R3191 Duke of Gloucester, delivery keeps slipping, sent a facebook comment yesterday, the reply was they have arrived and all have been sold

as i have mine on pre-order i thought i would get mine soon but a further call to Hornby and they suddenly say they have not recieved any and will not arrive till late

january 2014 i then contacted my dealer and they were told the same. As it was to be a christmas present i am very annoyed. With all the cheap labour in this country

now perhaps we are going to be cheaper than the chinese and we should bring it all back home.

[Coombe Barton]

Think realistically, you are representing a company. You cannot, not matter what you think, go round slating your own products. What message will that send out? SK is Hornby's rep, he has to put them in as much positive light as he can. Perhaps you can do that if you're both the owner and rep of a company but not if you're just an employee. 

 

Exactly. Remember Gerard Ratner?

[brushman47544]

Hornby's twitter feed just announced the following:

 

Due to manufacturing restraints this year some products have been delayed until 2014. See link for affected products: goo.gl/wtsMtg

 

IN case the short link does not work the full link is http://www.pdf.investintech.com/preview/682668b4-696a-11e3-95e2-003048d80846/index.html

 

Interesting, thanks - there's an awful lot of stuff NOT on that list that should have appeared in 2013 but hasn't....so far. Where are the Van B's for example?

 

And doesn't Hornby mean "constraints"?

[Ian Hargrave]

Been waiting for my R3191 Duke of Gloucester, delivery keeps slipping, sent a facebook comment yesterday, the reply was they have arrived and all have been sold

as i have mine on pre-order i thought i would get mine soon but a further call to Hornby and they suddenly say they have not recieved any and will not arrive till late

january 2014 i then contacted my dealer and they were told the same. As it was to be a christmas present i am very annoyed. With all the cheap labour in this country

now perhaps we are going to be cheaper than the chinese and we should bring it all back home.

Cheap labour? You mean skilled labour,surely?.Manufacturing premises? Tooling? Machinery?......YOU WISH !

[Bilbo]

I think this is now a logistical/shipping problem for some of the models as I have read and had emails giving dates for them and they are so precise that the only conclusion I can come to is that Hornby know they are in a container but it just hasn't arrived.

 

I think Hornby do open themselves up for criticism by trying to be so precise. Better the Bachmann method in the recent Bachmann Times where they list forthcoming issues in the format January/February for example. That gives them an 8 week leeway.

 

Just in case anyone comments on the massive delays in Hornby issues I am not talking about those I am just referring to the ones like Sentinel/DoG which we know are really in the pipeline (somewhere between China and here) .