New brand, new model - Rails Limited - LNER Dynamometer car

[IamDaniel]

I beg to differ. I worked in the music business for a few years and the magazines (radio stations, fanzines, etc.) were definitely paid to review albums and gigs. Not only money, but free holidays, tickets, albums, merchandise, etc.

 

Do you want to review band "XYZ"? Free two week all inclusive holiday in Brazil as long as you give a good review. Why do you think all the major gig reviews are in places like New York, Los Angeles and Paris rather than Stoke? It's not the magazine paying for it.

 

I'm not saying that happens in the Model Railway world. But it was common in my experience and apparently still is according to people still involved in the industry.

 

 

 

Jason

 

May I ask how long ago this was? Things have certainly changed in the last few years; I have a friend who writes for a well-known radio station and she has never been paid to write about particular band/concert etc to my knowledge. Yes, she's been given free tickets to concerts, festivals etc, but that's PR providing a relationship builder and that happens all the time.

 

Again, going back to the car industry, new vehicle launches often take place overseas, in five star hotels and with private jets taking you to and from the UK. This is part and parcel of the job and while it may sound all glamour it isn't really - most of the flights are early morning ones and as soon as you've driven the vehicle an editor will want copy to be filed straight away.

 

It is a generally accepted rule to that in order to review something, the publication won't pay for it - be it a concert ticket, a new vehicle or what have you. This is not a manufacturer paying to advertise a product. A manufacturer paying to advertise a product, is well, that.

 

I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule, but I felt the need to defend my trade against an assumption that every review in every magazine is paid for. They're not.

Edited June 5, 2018 by IamDaniel

[cctransuk]

As a journalist, can I just point out magazines are not "paid to advertise manufacturers' products" for the most part. In 99% of cases, no money changes hands in exchange for reviews, and on the odd occasion where there is paid-for-content inside a magazine it has to be clearly signposted, otherwise the publication will get in trouble with the ASA.

 

For instance, it costs car manufacturers £1,000 a week to send a test vehicle to motoring journalists to review. Yes, magazines - B2B ones especially - are funded by adverts, but a PR department does not pay a journalist to review a model, whereas the marketing department will pay the sales team to slot in adverts into the magazine.

 

The only exception to this rule that I can think of is the likes of a club magazine (such as Hornby's 'The Collector' or a Tesco magazine), which is there - like it or not - to promote products/(a) brand/s, but even then the journalist is given an element of editorial freedom, because nobody will read pages and pages of product plugs.

 

In IC82's case, Rails saw it could get good PR by sending him a (pre-production) model so sent him the model to review - and note, Will mentioned the model had to be sent back after the review had been filmed, so it wasn't as if he was going to keep it forever, either.

 

No money would have changed hands - and if it did, Will would have to clearly mention the video is an advertorial. Rails' also wouldn't have had any editorial say over what IC82 said in the same way a PR wouldn't proof-read a motoring journalist's review of a car before the copy appears in print or a news story. 

 

Of course, it is in Will's best interests to be kind about the product because he'll want to keep on receiving models to review and build relationships, but that's no different to any other reviewer.

 

You are missing the critical point - magazines carry separate paid-for advertising for the manufacturers of the products that they are reviewing. If you are suggesting that this fact in no way influences the tone or content of their reviews, you are a lot more naive than most of us here.

 

You may or may not be correct in stating thet Will does not receive any payment, in money or kind, from the manufacturers of the models that he reviews. That cannot be said a great many bloggers who are most certainly well rewarded for their inclusion / reviews / promotion of branded products.

 

Hence my statement that all reviews / blogs should be regarded with the utmost scepticism.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Steamport Southport]

May I ask how long ago this was? Things have certainly changed in the last few years; I have a friend who writes for a well-known radio station and she has never been paid to write about particular band/concert etc to my knowledge. Yes, she's been given free tickets to concerts, festivals etc, but that's PR providing a relationship builder and that happens all the time.

 

Again, going back to the car industry, new vehicle launches often take place overseas, in five star hotels and with private jets taking you to and from the UK. This is part and parcel of the job and while it may sound all glamour it isn't really - most of the flights are early morning ones and as soon as you've driven the vehicle an editor will want copy to be filed straight away.

 

It is a generally accepted rule to that in order to review something, the publication won't pay for it - be it a concert ticket, a new vehicle or what have you. This is not a manufacturer paying to advertise a product. A manufacturer paying to avertise a product, is well, that.

 

I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule, but I felt the need to defend my trade against an assumption that every review in every magazine is paid for. They're not.

 

From the late 1980s until mid 2000s. I still do occasional work with bands and gig promotions, but mostly smaller ones.

 

 

As I said it probably doesn't involve the model railway market, but it certainly still does the music industry. The worst offender was/is a popular music magazine beginning with K.

 

 

 

Jason

[cctransuk]

May I ask how long ago this was? Things have certainly changed in the last few years; I have a friend who writes for a well-known radio station and she has never been paid to write about particular band/concert etc to my knowledge. Yes, she's been given free tickets to concerts, festivals etc, but that's PR providing a relationship builder and that happens all the time.

 

Again, going back to the car industry, new vehicle launches often take place overseas, in five star hotels and with private jets taking you to and from the UK. This is part and parcel of the job and while it may sound all glamour it isn't really - most of the flights are early morning ones and as soon as you've driven the vehicle an editor will want copy to be filed straight away.

 

It is a generally accepted rule to that in order to review something, the publication won't pay for it - be it a concert ticket, a new vehicle or what have you. This is not a manufacturer paying to advertise a product. A manufacturer paying to avertise a product, is well, that.

 

I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule, but I felt the need to defend my trade against an assumption that every review in every magazine is paid for. They're not.

 

You really can't be that naive !!!

 

"free tickets to concerts, festivals etc, but that's PR providing a relationship builder"  A bribe for a good review.

 

"five star hotels and with private jets taking you to and from the UK"                                             Ditto

 

"It is a generally accepted rule to that in order to review something, the publication won't pay for it - be it a concert ticket, a new vehicle or what have you. This is not a manufacturer paying to advertise a product". Absolute rubbish !!!

 

I know that you don't actually believe all this, but I suppose that it salves the conscience to say it.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[IamDaniel]

You are missing the critical point - magazines carry separate paid-for advertising for the manufacturers of the products that they are reviewing. If you are suggesting that this fact in no way influences the tone or content of their reviews, you are a lot more naive than most of us here.

 

You may or may not be correct in stating thet Will does not receive any payment, in money or kind, from the manufacturers of the models that he reviews. That cannot be said a great many bloggers who are most certainly well rewarded for their inclusion / reviews / promotion of branded products.

 

Hence my statement that all reviews / blogs should be regarded with the utmost scepticism.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

I can assure you the copy I write is not influenced by the advertisers and I know for a fact the vast majority of other journos within mags in my experience are in the same boat. Look at the reaction Elon Musk got when he went on his Twitter rant about the media the other week.

 

Youtubers/Vloggers are a different kettle of fish from journalists as they liase with a marketing department, not a PR team.

 

I agree that a blog should be regarded with more scepticism than a magazine review, however.

Edited June 5, 2018 by IamDaniel

[Bon Accord]

I see the miserable old gits are out in force yet again.

[sharkman]

I see the miserable old gits are out in force yet again.

If this was a paid membership site i would'nt bother joining!

[Chamby]

I see the miserable old gits are out in force yet again.

  

If this was a paid membership site i would'nt bother joining!

... And two more grumpy posts to join them!

[K Hatton]

Who really cares if rails have paid for the video?

 

If you watch the video and decide to buy one, that's your own decision (unless there is some kind of hypnotic thing that I missed?)

 

I have ordered one based on the information from the manufacturer and the fact I want one (and can afford it) - as long as I am happy with it when I get it then I don't care who has reviewed it or in what format or even who's paid for it!

[ruggedpeak]

Who really cares if rails have paid for the video?

If you watch the video and decide to buy one, that's your own decision (unless there is some kind of hypnotic thing that I missed?)

I have ordered one based on the information from the manufacturer and the fact I want one (and can afford it) - as long as I am happy with it when I get it then I don't care who has reviewed it or in what format or even who's paid for it!

Youve been brainwashed by the subliminal messaging hidden in the video! And if you play the video backwards it tells you to worship the devil

[loickebros]

what has any of this to do with the actual model?

if some people want to get this thread locked then you are going the right way about it!

[roythebus]

I was just wondering that myself. Having seen the initial posts, thought I'd clock on later to see what the latest reports were. all about freebies to gigs. WTF has that got to do with an LNER Dynamometer Car?

[Steamport Southport]

I was just wondering that myself. Having seen the initial posts, thought I'd clock on later to see what the latest reports were. all about freebies to gigs. WTF has that got to do with an LNER Dynamometer Car?

 

It was about getting some "kid" to "review" the model on YouTube. By playing with it on the floor. This is a £125 model BTW, not a TTTE train set.

 

The sense was, whether right or wrong, was that he was getting a free model or paid for doing it. Someone denied you can get freebies for reviews or advertising and we gave him examples. That is all.

 

Watch the video if you are wondering why it p1ssed people off. When you get sent a video for a top end model you don't expect that sort of thing.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Oliver Rails]

Wow, I can see that the video has caused quite a debate with obvious mixed feelings regarding it.

 

More Dynamometer cars samples are due in the next few days and these will be going out to the usual press and magazines for review etc. I took the decision to send the a Dynamometer to Will (IC82) as many thousands of people do enjoy watching is vlogs. Although he does not have expert knowledge on the Dynamometer car, he does show it in good detail, more than most have seen so far. I dare say Will's videos reach audiences who do not all visit RM web and the usual places but that doesn't mean that they are not interest in the car. In fact with order book grew over the 48 hours after the video was released. 

 

Will was not paid for the video. Like I said he is a full time YouTube vlogger who simply loves to make videos of his hobby.

 

I guess his videos are a bit like marmite. If the video wasn't to your taste that is fine, simply stay tuned and look out for full detailed reviews soon. For all the people who do enjoy Will's videos then I hope you liked it. 

 

I hope we can move on now and focus again on the Dynamometer Car. To give you an update the production is complete. We are finalising shipping and expect to see them real soon.

[Colin_McLeod]

If the video brought in orders, then consider that a success.

 

I like the other video you published. The black and white one.

[sem34090]

I went off said youtube reviewer's videos some years ago - the complete lack of prototype reference did it. I personally have found the likes of SamsTrains to be better. Still on the floor, with basic scenery, but there is usually some comments regarding the prototype and potential accuracy issues. Like others here I mainly use videos to see close-up shots of a forthcoming/new model, and the fact that Sam uses a white background is helpful here as the model is well lit and detail can be clearly seen.

 

Each to their own.

 

Anyway, I love the look of the Dynamometer Car, but at £26 more than a P or Barclay I really cannot justify it. With the terriers at £140 (If you include the deposit) and the forthcoming Model Rail E1 likely to be £150< I am beginning to wonder how to sort myself out with locos and stock. I suppose I'll just have to keep up the CAD work, as that seems the cheapest avenue for me to pursue.

 

Kits are even more expensive on the whole, before someone tells me to go and buy a kit. I would, but when kits are almost as expensive as RTR (without wheels, motor, etc) and more expensive to complete, with a huge risk of an expensive c0ck up the first time around. I keep missing them on ebay too.

 

EDIT: Situation with the terriers clarified I may now get one!

Edited June 7, 2018 by sem34090

[PaulG]

The NER dynamo-meter car was used on the GE Section in June 1951 on the up and down East Anglian with 70006 Robert Burns and Class B1 61270, which must have been one of the last times the vehicle was used, given that the new Gresley ordered dynamo-meter car eventually was delivered in 1951.

 

The photos of vehicle I have seen on the GE are the usual front three-quarter view of the train and its not possible to see the BR carriage lettering, which I understand was applied to the teak livery. Can anyone post a photo?

 

Paul

[Oliver Rails]

I went off said youtube reviewer's videos some years ago - the complete lack of prototype reference did it. I personally have found the likes of SamsTrains to be better. Still on the floor, with basic scenery, but there is usually some comments regarding the prototype and potential accuracy issues. Like others here I mainly use videos to see close-up shots of a forthcoming/new model, and the fact that Sam uses a white background is helpful here as the model is well lit and detail can be clearly seen.

 

Each to their own.

 

Anyway, I love the look of the Dynamometer Car, but at £26 more than a P or Barclay I really cannot justify it. With the terriers at £140 (If you include the deposit) and the forthcoming Model Rail E1 likely to be £150< I am beginning to wonder how to sort myself out with locos and stock. I suppose I'll just have to keep up the CAD work, as that seems the cheapest avenue for me to pursue.

 

Kits are even more expensive on the whole, before someone tells me to go and buy a kit. I would, but when kits are almost as expensive as RTR (without wheels, motor, etc) and more expensive to complete, with a huge risk of an expensive c0ck up the first time around. I keep missing them on ebay too.

 

 

 

Hi, Just to clarify the Rails exclusive terrier is £110.00 and not £140.00

 

So its £110, less the £30 deposit, leaving a balance of £80

[MikeTrice]

Last recorded test was:

12th Oct 1951: Hunslet 500HP Diesel.

[sem34090]

Hi, Just to clarify the Rails exclusive terrier is £110.00 and not £140.00

 

So its £110, less the £30 deposit, leaving a balance of £80

Post amended! My apologies.

[polybear]

Will was not paid for the video. Like I said he is a full time YouTube vlogger who simply loves to make videos of his hobby.

 

 

Did he get to keep the sample though?

[Legend]

Did he get to keep the sample though?

No he had to send it back.

[scots region]

I've pre-ordered the 1938 one and an 812, saints be praised I need my head examined.   

[adb968008]

Last recorded test was:

12th Oct 1951: Hunslet 500HP Diesel.

Wow that’s a bit of a come down.

[Steamport Southport]

Wow that’s a bit of a come down.

 

Yep. For the Hunslet.

 

 

I mean why was it having to pull a museum piece about?

 

 

Jason

Edited June 9, 2018 by Steamport Southport