KR Models to make SR Class 4DD

[Bucoops]

37 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Be fair; they did change some numbers.

 

I guess they could do it on one side only, then it could be its earlier self at the same time.

[newbryford]

2 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

Be fair; they did change some numbers.

 

And "paint it yellow and put Network Rail stickers on" [TM}

[AY Mod]

4 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

And "paint it yellow and put Network Rail stickers on" [TM}

 

So did you succumb to the urge? 😂

[newbryford]

Just now, AY Mod said:

 

So did you succumb to the urge? 😂

 

You know me better than that............

[jjb1970]

One of my pet hates has always been asking someone what they thought of a movie, book, music or similar and being told its sales figure as if that is all that is needed to assess whether or not it is any good. 

[spamcan61]

6 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

One of my pet hates has always been asking someone what they thought of a movie, book, music or similar and being told its sales figure as if that is all that is needed to assess whether or not it is any good. 

Well from the point of view of those who funded it, it is the mark of success (no different to toy trains or anything else), and at least it's an objective measure.  As for people's subjective opinions on whether something is any good or not well, they're by definition subjective.

[chris p bacon]

13 hours ago, Din said:

It also continues to amuse me that the Fell is such a woeful disaster according to this forum... when they're planning a second run due to demand from other customers!

 

No one has stated publicly how many they made on the first run, but the Fell thread noted several who had paid up front and not received and were offered one from the 2nd run.  Quite how you could not produce enough models to satisfy those who had funded is only known to KR, although there are several reasons why this could easily happen.

[jjb1970]

4 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

Well from the point of view of those who funded it, it is the mark of success (no different to toy trains or anything else), and at least it's an objective measure.  As for people's subjective opinions on whether something is any good or not well, they're by definition subjective.

 

Indeed, but that's the reason I might ask for someone's opinion of a book or film, sales figures are an indication of commercial success but don't tell me anything else about a film, book, movie or anything else. In an ideal world it might be inferred that a commercially successful product is good, but unfortunately the world doesn't work like that. What each of us considers to be good is subjective and personal, but if I ask for an opinion of someone I'm effectively inviting a subjective opinion and such opinions can be interesting in their own right.

[No Decorum]

16 hours ago, JSpencer said:

 

I can live with minor variations not being present in this case. There might be a middle ground that just covers going from green to blue. Or maybe a detailing kit can plug the last minor gap.

The fell was trying to cover as built on one side and later profile on the other when they did not need to (unfortunately this was not the worst issue - see the Fell thread). Do I like the fell? It's different and I hope KR learned from it. The GT3 was far better so if they can at least get back to that standard and build on it that would be progress in the right direction. 

 

Getting back to the GT3 standard and building on it would be welcome but I have little faith in it happening. The lights on GT3 were a mess. The lights on the Fell were also a mess and several more errors were added. 

[VIA185]

On 29/12/2022 at 04:14, GWR-fan said:

 

Look to the detail differences between the KRM Shay and the Fell.   The Shay looks to be a superb model obviously geared towards a discerning North American market.  Now examine the Fell and determine if the potentially dominant British market is less discerning and willing to accept a flawed model.

To judge the Shay for strict accuracy you need to know exactly which locomotive (by c/n) is being modelled and at what date, as virtually no two were the same and many received homespun alterations during their working carrier, not to mention alterations to what fuel they burned (usually conversion from wood to oil). Bizarrely, it is a rare instance where it is fairly easy to make a generic model and it is difficult for anyone to argue that it is wrong.(CJL)

[VIA185]

On 29/12/2022 at 19:18, Din said:

 

 

The survivors dont also seem to be in the best of nick, and I rather suspect scanning isn't the be all and end all magic bullet some people think it is, hence why we still complain about things being "wrong" on models despite them being scanned, or extensive reference photographs taken.

 

Scanning may not be 'the be all and end all' but it is a good way to get curvature correct and the 4-DD does have a very critical curvature at the 'eaves' level with those wrap-over windows. (CJL)

[The Stationmaster]

13 hours ago, VIA185 said:

Scanning may not be 'the be all and end all' but it is a good way to get curvature correct and the 4-DD does have a very critical curvature at the 'eaves' level with those wrap-over windows. (CJL)

It does also depend on how good are the people doing the scanning.  I have seen one scan which was absolutely excellent and was subsequently used by the designer to check, by overlaying, his CADs.  But I also know of another scan - done by someone else - which was then used by a designer but somehow lost more than 10% of the length of the underframe of the vehicle being scanned.

[jjb1970]

There are no panaceas in design work, scanning is an excellent tool but as the Stationmaster and CJL say, there are still many variables and scanning the prototype is no guarantee of a good model. 

[Bernard Lamb]

2 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

There are no panaceas in design work, scanning is an excellent tool but as the Stationmaster and CJL say, there are still many variables and scanning the prototype is no guarantee of a good model. 

I would have thought that a square on photo of eachside and end would have been a good starting point.

By doing that they would have quickly seen that the end windows are the wrong shape. Enlarge the photo many times and check the corners using thread gauges would have helped.

Before people jump down my throat I did offer KR assistance in the ealy days and pointed out that I worked in QC and was pretty good at checking drawings.

I also wrote that I did not like the business methods or the attitude of KR and would not be buying any of their products.

There does not seem to have been any improvement.

Hand over your money if you want to but the odds of a dog's dinner being produced seem to me to be still too great.

Bernard

[jjb1970]

13 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

I would have thought that a square on photo of eachside and end would have been a good starting point.

By doing that they would have quickly seen that the end windows are the wrong shape. Enlarge the photo many times and check the corners using thread gauges would have helped.

 

 

I'm guessing all of us will have stories of major blunders which could have been avoided by just looking at something, or getting a simple measuring tape out or some other extremely basic check. A friend of mine used to love saying that if you can't get the basics right there's no point trying to do the difficult stuff, and he had a point.

[black and decker boy]

As a graduate, I allegedly built Manchester Airport terminal 3 in the wrong place and it would never be able to be used.

 

I got a few bits of foundation 25mm out.

 

it’s still where I left it and the planes seem to come & go every few minutes though

 

surveying, measuring and drawing is a difficult process that needs time, training & precision but more than anything, it needs checking. The value is in the ability of the checker (my work was never checked and once cast, concrete is expensive & hard to change). Getting the CADs right for a model won’t be easy but if it’s not done, it’s too late once tools are made.

[Darius43]

1 hour ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Before people jump down my throat I did offer KR assistance in the ealy days and pointed out that I worked in QC and was pretty good at checking drawings.

I also wrote that I did not like the business methods or the attitude of KR and would not be buying any of their products.

I suspect that telling someone that you don’t like their business methods and attitude and that you won’t be buying any of their products at the same time as offering them help with drawing checking etc. might make them reluctant to take up your offer of help.

 

Not jumping down your throat (not a pleasant prospect), merely making an observation.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[CUCKOO LINE]

CAD systems are invaluable but after working in a design environment all my life it can be easy for the designer to assume that the CAD will save everything and produce the good product, but checking and review by experienced other party has often been demonstrated to be invaluable in spotting flaws in the CAD.

Edited December 31, 2022 by CUCKOO LINE
Typo

[Wickham Green too]

On 30/12/2022 at 02:06, jjb1970 said:

One of my pet hates has always been asking someone what they thought of a movie, book, music or similar and being told its sales figure as if that is all that is needed to assess whether or not it is any good. 

Sales figures are a damned good measure of how good the publicity was ........... though how much of that publicity was pre-release hype and how much is post-release reviews will vary tremendously !

[Zunnan]

If sales figures and hype were the only measure of quality, the ‘Twilight’ movies should be Oscar worthy works of art. Reality tells us otherwise…

[Wolf27]

On 29/12/2022 at 21:59, newbryford said:

 

You know me better than that............

So that’s a yes then.

[jjb1970]

On 01/01/2023 at 01:57, Darius43 said:

I suspect that telling someone that you don’t like their business methods and attitude and that you won’t be buying any of their products at the same time as offering them help with drawing checking etc. might make them reluctant to take up your offer of help.

 

Not jumping down your throat (not a pleasant prospect), merely making an observation.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

That is true. However it's also true that KR reacted in a rather confrontational way when people offered honest feedback and voiced concerns with none of the emotional stuff in the early days of the company which created some bad feeling. 

[FranksLad]

If everyone on here learned CAD, the market would be a glorious haven of models perfect in every detail……….

However as they won’t, sadly it’s a case of “best you’re gonna get until ya do”……

 

Of only these companies would employ someone who knows how to research the subject AND draw it….

 

PM me if you like, I’ll send over my CV and portfolio 😉

Edited January 3, 2023 by FranksLad

[dasatcopthorne]

On 03/01/2023 at 16:36, FranksLad said:

If everyone on here learned CAD, the market would be a glorious haven of models perfect in every detail……….

However as they won’t, sadly it’s a case of “best you’re gonna get until ya do”……

 

Of only these companies would employ someone who knows how to research the subject AND draw it….

 

PM me if you like, I’ll send over my CV and portfolio 😉

 

No need to employ someone.

 

It's all offered Free on here and elsewhere but they don't seem to want it in a lot of instances.

 

Dave.

[KR Models]

On 03/01/2023 at 05:00, jjb1970 said:

 

That is true. However it's also true that KR reacted in a rather confrontational way when people offered honest feedback and voiced concerns with none of the emotional stuff in the early days of the company which created some bad feeling. 

The personal attacks on my character and my personal life did leave a bad taste for being on here.  The faceless keyboard trolls are the main problem.  Most are not even potential customers.  I get attacked and then you wonder why I won't respond.  RMWeb is not the be all and end all, and certainly not the font of all knowledge. 

Keith