RMweb Premium Legend Posted December 13, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 13, 2016 Yes big thumbs up to you Dave for the very honest description of whats happened. I expect others will be affected too. It is one of the factors you have to take into account when manufacturing in China, but as you say it seems to have caught people out that folks are travelling so early. That's a new development. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John ks Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Dave here's a thought that will probably be impossible for any number of reasons Would it be possible to post locos not going to UK directly to the customer from China I suspect it would be a logistical nightmare but it would mean Non UK residents might get their locos a bit sooner and it might save a little on postage When My APT-E was sent to me it went from China to England to Germany to USA(2 stops) to Hawaii to NSW in Australia then to me in Qld. (a trip almost once around the world) A trip from China to Australia would be a lot shorter Optimistically yours John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted December 13, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 13, 2016 Dave here's a thought that will probably be impossible for any number of reasons Would it be possible to post locos not going to UK directly to the customer from China I suspect it would be a logistical nightmare but it would mean Non UK residents might get their locos a bit sooner and it might save a little on postage When My APT-E was sent to me it went from China to England to Germany to USA(2 stops) to Hawaii to NSW in Australia then to me in Qld. (a trip almost once around the world) A trip from China to Australia would be a lot shorter Optimistically yours John How does that work from a customs/excise/vat perspective ?, not to mention postage costs. Flip side Kowloon post office often has all day queues tens deep, of locals carrying dozens of parcels per man shipping off their ebay sales ! :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted December 13, 2016 Author Share Posted December 13, 2016 Forgive me if I have the wrong end of the stick here, especially at this difficult time, but reading purely the written words above; is there any risk that the whole thing will be canceled if it's deemed no longer viable? Is production not committed already? All the best with your endeavours and wishing you the success that the project does deserve. Hi Andy, Thanks for the posting and a very good question. No, the project will never be cancelled, the money is spent, the tooling done, the paint accepted, it's just the awful bloomin wait for the body production to start that's the pain. No doubt there will be some that see the other 71 alternative and cancel theirs, but I'm hoping it won't cause a 'run on the bank' as it were. It seems the majority are keeping the faith and I thank them for being part of history. It will make a nice book someday......... "how we produced the first ever 100% crowdsourced RTR model railway locomotive" (emphasis on the 'we' as without you guys it would never have happened) Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted December 13, 2016 Author Share Posted December 13, 2016 How does that work from a customs/excise/vat perspective ?, not to mention postage costs. Flip side Kowloon post office often has all day queues tens deep, of locals carrying dozens of parcels per man shipping off their ebay sales ! :-) Yup, my sentiments exactly on first reading the posting. Food for thought though, but I won't promise. Kernow are pretty quick shipping worldwide though. Cheers Dave 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 It would be a poor show for people who have supported this project to 'jump ship' at this stage and buy the other blokes' 71 just because there is another month or two in the schedule. If you wanted one that bad you should have bailed as soon as the other came out. I am happy to be part of this crowdfunding exercise, happy to wait. Like some of the other projects and funds I've been part of, its important to realise it requires a bit more nerve than a normal purchase. Books I have funded have taken longer, films and art projects are far from fruition but they'd not have got anywhere without a bit of faith and patience. There is definitely something awkward and annoying about the release of another of the same prototype ahead of this one but like a model I built myself over a RTR one this model: I feel slightly protective towards it and feel a certain amount pride in being a part of it. Another bit of a wait isn't going to dim that. A few lessons may be learnt perhaps but that bodes well for future projects like this. A whole load of first world problems abounding here for sure. Best wishes! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroomy Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 I'm more then happy to wait no rush Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenwall Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 The silver lining is that they will not be in the christmas and/or CNY postage rush which probably raise the chances of going astray or damage. Steady does it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestburyJack Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 I've already bought one from the other company, and am happy to wait for a 2nd from DJM and a 3rd from DJM/Hattons. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium amwells Posted December 13, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 13, 2016 While of course it would have been nice to have them here for Christmas, another couple of months makes no odds. Hope things go a little smoother post CNY. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37081LochLong Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 I've waited this long so there is no way I'm going to cancel to get one of the others this close to release! I can wait a couple of months or so Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 It would be a poor show for people who have supported this project to 'jump ship' at this stage and buy the other blokes' 71 just because there is another month or two in the schedule. If you wanted one that bad you should have bailed as soon as the other came out. I am happy to be part of this crowdfunding exercise, happy to wait. Like some of the other projects and funds I've been part of, its important to realise it requires a bit more nerve than a normal purchase. Books I have funded have taken longer, films and art projects are far from fruition but they'd not have got anywhere without a bit of faith and patience. There is definitely something awkward and annoying about the release of another of the same prototype ahead of this one but like a model I built myself over a RTR one this model: I feel slightly protective towards it and feel a certain amount pride in being a part of it. Another bit of a wait isn't going to dim that. A few lessons may be learnt perhaps but that bodes well for future projects like this. A whole load of first world problems abounding here for sure. Best wishes! A lot of this depends on the peoples motivation for buying one. DJM others choices that Hornby does not and vice versa. If you want the NRM one, that is Hornby, easy sound fitting, DJM, golden arrow then Hattons (DJM), weathered Kernow (DJM) , without rain stripes Hornby, and so on... The fact that some Hornby are here now and going cheap, will in most cases I suspect lead to someone buying a Hornby version in addition to the DJM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opelsi Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 I will defo be keeping my orders. I did get an E5001 (general release rather than NRM as not keen on gloss finish) from Hornby as DJM not doing this loco. Also I ordered BR Blue Class 71 from DJM and the Class 74 in BR Blue too - all paid for and eagerly though patiently awaited. After such a tough year personally, a little more time to wait for a great model is not a big deal in perspective. So long as we get it eventually I'll be very happy and glad to support Dave in all his efforts. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium New Haven Neil Posted December 13, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 13, 2016 Ah bo££ocks. I wanted to play with mine run mine in over the holidays! Never mind, we wait years for projects in 16mm scale, so this little wait isn't an issue! Keep the faith. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Trofimow Posted December 13, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 13, 2016 Oh well, sh1t happens. It would have been nice to have them by chrimbo, but it's hardly the highest priority in life. I was happy to put my money behind Dave's project when he first announced it and nothing that has happened since has changed that. I'm still confident that he will deliver a product that will be worth the wait. Who knows, I might even be able to start on the long delayed layout rebuild by then and actually have something to run them on.... Alan 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted December 13, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 13, 2016 Thanks for the (customary) open honesty Dave. I can understand your frustration at DJM Towers given the appeal of having the locos in customer's hands for Christmas and the achievement of the first fully crowd-sourced model loco project. Good things come to those who wait. These will be good locos. I am more than happy to wait a few weeks longer. There will be no ship-jumping here. I have waited very much longer for some other locos which currently have DJM / KMRC involvement and which will be overtaken by the 71s and probably the 74s as well. Don't let it spoil the DJNY and have a good Christmas. We'll catch up face to face later in 2017 somewhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRAILRAGE Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Davey boy I've pretty much waited for one of these since seeing my first pic of 3 withdrawn 74's at Doncaster in a Modern railways mag as a kid so waiting a couple more months is no biggie. For me this was always my first and only choice for a 71 model and that's not gonna change and as such I have two 71's and a 74 on order with you and have absolutely no intention of cancelling as I believe we will get a superior model from you. Nothing against Hornby's effort I just feel the DJM model will be better. Understandably you are carrying a lot of weight on your shoulders there so hopefully keeping us all in the loop will reduce it somewhat and ease some off you stress. Try and keep your spirits up Mate I'm sure it will all sort itself out and things will get back to normal if there is such a thing! A keeping the faith Trailrage 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoverPriory Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Oh well, sh1t happens. It would have been nice to have them by chrimbo, but it's hardly the highest priority in life. I was happy to put my money behind Dave's project when he first announced it and nothing that has happened since has changed that. I'm still confident that he will deliver a product that will be worth the wait. Who knows, I might even be able to start on the long delayed layout rebuild by then and actually have something to run them on.... Alan Absolutely right. There are much more important things in life than a minor delay like this. I sat yesterday afternoon in the clinic waiting room of a major hospital. You didn't need to be medically qualified to know there were some really sick people in there. I did buy one Hornby class 71 as a look see. Believe me the DJM version has got to be better than this. I suspect it's motor is slowly disintegrating (when I've got some spare time I will take it apart) and it's leaving black gunge on the track - it has been retired. I have ordered 3 DJM versions and will not be cancelling my order. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 I did buy one Hornby class 71 as a look see. Believe me the DJM version has got to be better than this. I suspect it's motor is slowly disintegrating (when I've got some spare time I will take it apart) and it's leaving black gunge on the track - it has been retired. Well why don't you send it back? It is still under warranty. My Hornby one is a peach of a runner straight out of the box and doesn't leave any marks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoverPriory Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Well why don't you send it back? It is still under warranty. My Hornby one is a peach of a runner straight out of the box and doesn't leave any marks. Because to fit sound into it I had to perform major surgery which would invalidate the warranty! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Because to fit sound into it I had to perform major surgery which would invalidate the warranty! Then how do you know it is not what you did that's caused the problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoverPriory Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Then how do you know it is not what you did that's caused the problems. I hardly think removing the pantograph parts on the inside of this poorly designed model will cause the motor to malfunction - or, perhaps, I am missing something here?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Simon Lee Posted December 14, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 14, 2016 I hardly think removing the pantograph parts on the inside of this poorly designed model will cause the motor to malfunction - or, perhaps, I am missing something here?? In what way do you consider this model to be poorly designed ? I have two and they run and look fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted December 14, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 14, 2016 I hardly think removing the pantograph parts on the inside of this poorly designed model will cause the motor to malfunction - or, perhaps, I am missing something here?? Then Hornby would be on shaky ground to reject the warranty. That's hardly major surgery though? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoverPriory Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 In what way do you consider this model to be poorly designed ? I have two and they run and look fine. I would have thought in this day and age much consideration would have given to the ability to put sound chip and decent speaker into a NEW model. You can just about, after some modification to this models very cramped interior put in a cube speaker and sound chip. Having read Dave's breakdown of the DJM class 71 a major consideration in the design of his model was the ease of putting in a sound system. The only marketing I have done is to watch The Apprentice and I'm damn sure that Lord Sugar would have fired the Hornby crewe if he had seen their efforts!! But the proof of the pudding is in the eating! I think these columns will see some very interesting comparisons and comments next year!!?? I for one do not want another Hornby class 71 even if they get discounted down to a tenner each! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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