KR Models announce the Fell in OO and N.

[chris p bacon]

1 hour ago, rorz101uk said:

Chris, not really sure what you mean “KR Senior” I hope you use your imaginary £5 to good use. If you can show me the details of what wrong with the model, I have other priorities so I have kept up to date with the production of the model. 

I've got to admit I was a bit confused by your post, although it could just be a typo that has changed the possible meaning. 

 

KR senior is Keith Revell the initial owner* of KR models who trumpeted that he was going to produce high quality models. The first was the GT3 which had too many mistakes for the amount of research that is easily available. The Fell has long been the ugly duckling of the prototypes and when KR announced its production it obviously gained some interest. Part way through the Fells production it became obvious to some that a lack of care had been taken over it's fidelity to the prototype and that it had become a 'FrankenFell'  KR seniors tactic was to present in a bullish manner that as it was a 'prototype' that it had any number of adaptations during its life and that it was absolutely fine to present it in any manner they liked.

 

In answer to the question

Quote

 If you can show me the details of what wrong with the model

Rather than a long list of negatives it would be much easier to find a picture that shows the Fell in the configuration produced.......if that were even possible...

 

Is there a typo in this sentence ?

 

Quote

I have other priorities so I have kept up to date with the production of the model. 

 

I also have other priorities ( a renovation from dereliction of our next home as well as still working on other projects and researching) and I have kept up to date with various models inc the Fell.

 

* KR Senior was joined by MR Junior (his son Michael)  although after a discussion with KR senior I coined the nickname 'Jesse J' for him.

[chris p bacon]

6 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

The assumption in your post is on the funding arrangements being a traditional comissioner to factory upfront model.

 

Alternative options exist..purely hypothetically (and i’m in no way implying it is) but..

 

Could an alternative hypothesis be that a factory is behind the funding of the tooling of a model and works with a western reseller to promoting bringing it to that market ?

 

['CHARD]

I love the fact that what's been created is a dadaist, free-form jazz rendition of this ludicrous prototype. 

 

It's so apt, can we be certain that production design and artwork wasn't actually handled by the Hot Wheels studio?   

[chris p bacon]

3 minutes ago, 'CHARD said:

I love the fact that what's been created is a dadaist, free-form jazz rendition of this ludicrous prototype. 

 

It's so apt, can we be certain that production design and artwork wasn't actually handled by the Hot Wheels studio?   

Did you order the Green or Black ?

 

[Colin_McLeod]

2 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

In this case I think the comments in this thread are fair, the nature of the inaccuracies are something we just don't expect in OO RTR anymore, if Hornby, Bachmann, Heljan, Dapol or other released such a model the response would be just the same, and the criticism would be just as justified.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, chris p bacon said:

 Part way through the Fells production it became obvious to some that a lack of care had been taken over it's fidelity to the prototype and that it had become a 'FrankenFell'  KR seniors tactic was to present in a bullish manner that as it was a 'prototype' that it had any number of adaptations during its life and that it was absolutely fine to present it in any manner they liked.

 

 

If a new model is produced with an error then that is unfortunate and could happen to any manufacturer.

 

However in KR Models' case there are multiple errors which were pointed out in good time to have them rectified yet still KR Models stuck to their guns and stubbornly refused to modify anything despite the constructive criticism given.

 

It's like getting a 1980s model at 2020s prices. OK it's a modern mechanism, but body accuracy is unnecessarily lacking in fidelity to the prototype.

 

 

[cctransuk]

I don't think that it has yet been mentioned that the green version has white numbering, when it should be cream.

 

CJI.

[Martin_R]

I’m hanging on for the ‘neverwazza’ red livery version to be announced…….

[Philou]

19 minutes ago, Martin_R said:

I’m hanging on for the ‘neverwazza’ red livery version to be announced…….

 

No ..... don't ...... just don't .........

[ColinK]

Inter City Executive livery would suit the Fell.  I’m looking forward to my BR blue one - it’s currently stuck due to the Royal Mail strike.

[GWR-fan]

Excerpt on this site (page2) from KR Models on November 25th 2019

" ...........Like we said at Warley this weekend, we are still new, we do still make mistakes, but we do learn and we do 100% intend to bring a high quality product to market and I hope you've seen that in the GT3 that we have shown off".   

 

Excerpt on this site  (page 6) as quoted on April 20th 2020 from an email from KR Models

".........As a bonus we have figured out a way of including the full connecting rod to make a 4-8-4 configuration. All you will need is a spanner to unbolt the old connecting rods and replace with the new one. You get two models for the price of one. There were other changes to the body work that we can't change without a huge expense. So we are keeping to the one we have the most information on."

 

The last statement implies that tooling was well underway by April 2020 and the manufacturer was aware that the tooling was,  for want of a better word "incorrect",  but decided to press ahead with the release of the model irrespective of how accurate it would be.  Since approximately July 2020 there have been barely a handful of images of the model and suspiciously, apart from two unliveried images of the "EP" (actually the production model),  the images only showed the more "accurate" side of the model depending on the livery.  At no point, from memory,  did the manufacturer stipulate that the unliveried images were actually of the same model and not two models depicting the prototype in an early state and later in its life,  leading many to believe that a reasonably accurate model would be released depicting the loco in both BR black and BR green liveries. 

[Les1952]

One simple question for those who want an exact Fell.

 

Which specific date would you like KR to have modelled it as running?   "No specific date" is not an acceptable answer as it equates to what KR Models set out to do.....

 

Les

Edited October 2, 2022 by Les1952
typos...

[GWR-fan]

38 minutes ago, Les1952 said:

One simple question for those who want an exact Fell.

 

Which specific date would you like KR to have modelled it as running?   "No specific date" is not an acceptable answer as it equates to what KR Models set out to do.....

 

Les

 

Les,

         ask yourself,  when KR Models stated that they would release an accurate model back in November, 2019,  were you expecting an accurate model or as the storyline goes now,  as you state, it equates to what KR Models intended to do.  Did we expect an accurate model or a model incorporating modifications the prototype received over its lifetime,  all on the same model?   Did KR Models really intend a Frankenfell or were mistakes made in the rush to cad and tooling that mid-2020 the apparent decision was made that any changes to make the model more accurate would be too expensive in correcting the tooling.  Who would pay for those changes,  the pre-paying customers or the manufacturer?

 

As regards a specific date,  well there are more than enough images online which depict the prototype at various dates,  so pick a date.  I would have been more than happy enough with a model which related to any of those images which depicted the actual prototype.  I was fortunate that I was able to cancel my pre-order with Rails,  losing my GBP30.00 deposit in the process.  What of those who pre-paid,  what redress do they have if not satisfied with the model received.  An image is two dimensional and a model three dimensional .  Some will say well you can only see one side at a time and so the model is acceptable.  These people ignore reality perhaps consoling themselves in that what they thought they were paying for is not what they received.

[jjb1970]

1 hour ago, Les1952 said:

One simple question for those who want an exact Fell.

 

Which specific date would you like KR to have modelled it as running?   "No specific date" is not an acceptable answer as it equates to what KR Models set out to do.....

 

Les

 

For me it wouldn't matter, if they had selected any date and made an accurate model for that date I would have been happy. It's not the date which is the relevant parameter, it is selecting which configuration to model. I think most people are pragmatic enough to accept that with such a niche product it would only be viable to manufacture one set of tooling and that this would mean that either some versions would in effect be fantasy models or would not be offered.

 

Even if they had said at the outset they were modelling different versions on each side people would have assessed it on that basis and some would probably like the idea. However this model doesn't work on that basis either as even if we try and rationalize what KR have done on that basis it still leaves an inaccurate model.

[cctransuk]

8 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

 

For me it wouldn't matter, if they had selected any date and made an accurate model for that date I would have been happy. It's not the date which is the relevant parameter, it is selecting which configuration to model. I think most people are pragmatic enough to accept that with such a niche product it would only be viable to manufacture one set of tooling and that this would mean that either some versions would in effect be fantasy models or would not be offered.

 

Even if they had said at the outset they were modelling different versions on each side people would have assessed it on that basis and some would probably like the idea. However this model doesn't work on that basis either as even if we try and rationalize what KR have done on that basis it still leaves an inaccurate model.

 

So - hypothetically at present - do distance selling regulations allow us to return the model for a refund - in full or in part?

 

CJI.

[jjb1970]

1 minute ago, cctransuk said:

 

So - hypothetically at present - do distance selling regulations allow us to return the model for a refund - in full or in part?

 

CJI.

 

Can't help with that one, sorry. 

[billy_anorak59]

10 hours ago, Les1952 said:

Which specific date would you like KR to have modelled it as running? 

This configuration would do from 1954-1959 (it only changed a lot during the very early years of it's life), so this would cover both black and green versions (repeated from earlier in the thread for convenience):

 

This shows the loco on both sides on the same day - it was symetrical.

 

BTW: Has anyone mentioned that on the cartoon side, not only is the water filler at the wrong end, but the recess for the auxillary blower exhaust is missing completely?

Edited October 3, 2022 by billy_anorak59
Smelling

[Graham_Muz]

17 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

So - hypothetically at present - do distance selling regulations allow us to return the model for a refund - in full or in part?

 

CJI.

Distance Selling Regulations stipulate a full refund with 14 days as a cooling off period this legally includes any deposits paid.

 

[cctransuk]

1 minute ago, Graham_Muz said:

Distance Selling Regulations stipulate a full refund with 14 days as a cooling off period this legally includes any deposits paid.

 

 

Thank you for that - some thinking to do!

 

I take it that the 14 days commences on delivery? (Not from date of ordering / pre-payment)?

 

CJI

[Graham_Muz]

2 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Thank you for that - some thinking to do!

 

I take it that the 14 days commences on delivery? (Not from date of ordering / pre-payment)?

 

CJI

Correct 14 days from delivery regardless of when any deposits or payments were made. 
The only exclusion regarding a non refundable deposit is when the purchase is for a custom made individual product, this certainly does not apply to a mass or limited number production model railway item (a clause at least one manufacturer has unlawfully tried to use in the past...).

[peteskitchen]

Time will tell if the general model buyer is happy with this model or not. I'll keep my eye on ebay prices.

[cctransuk]

45 minutes ago, Graham_Muz said:

Correct 14 days from delivery regardless of when any deposits or payments were made. 
The only exclusion regarding a non refundable deposit is when the purchase is for a custom made individual product, this certainly does not apply to a mass or limited number production model railway item (a clause at least one manufacturer has unlawfully tried to use in the past...).

 

My Fell has just been delivered - and is going straight back! 😒

 

Quite apart from the now-notorious, fictitious arrangement of detail on one side, the quartering is way out. Whilst the coupling rods are in sync., (as they should be), on the fictitiously detailed side, they are way out on the correctly(?) detailed side.

 

This looks ludicrous, as the rods were always in sync., even after the centre rods were removed, due to the geared connection between the axles. Moreover, I cannot imagine that running would be satisfactory by out-of-sync. quartering.

 

Shame - better dig out the Judith Edge kit sooner than had been planned!

 

John Isherwood.

[jamieb]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

So - hypothetically at present - do distance selling regulations allow us to return the model for a refund - in full or in part?

 

CJI.

You can only get a  50% refund on the half that's incorrect 😁

[Michael Hodgson]

18 minutes ago, jamieb said:

You can only get a  50% refund on the half that's incorrect 😁

Yes, but it's only that half that they want to send back.

[leezer3]

On the subject of symmetry, I feel that many members are conveniently forgetting that it took 30 odd pages of argument in this thread to produce 2 definitive pictures from the same day of different sides.

 

Many (I suspect the majority of the average model buyers) will not know whether what is supplied to be accurate or not, and will just be interested in looks [moudling / painting standards] and running.

 

My issue is not with the model delivered, but with the frankly abjectly poor communication from KR.

I think we had about 2 or 3 images over the past 18 months and a couple of videos not really showing too much.

Vague dates and promises add to the issue.....

When you're taking payment in advance, this isn't a business model to produce satisfied customers.....

 

[GWR-fan]

When you are responsible for thousands of pounds of money from customers prepaying for the privilege of owning a model at some point in the future,  how much due care and diligence would you take to ensure the end product is correct,  or at the very least as close as possible to represent the prototype.  Would you leave the research to the office boy or would you not engage those who apparently offered their research for a fee but were apparently declined?