Have your say with Rapido

[whart57]

3 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

[2] If luggage trains needed to be pulled at passenger train speeds, it would be logical to use passenger engines. The Liverpool and Manchester, as a pioneering railway, may well have so described an engine a few years old that had been superseded by the latest design from passenger traffic.

 

 

Many railways used the term "coal engine" for an obsolescent goods loco fit only for the slowest mineral traffic. The South Eastern even used the term in their livery definitions, namely that "coal engines" were painted black with no lining and minimal lettering.

[Dunsignalling]

AIUI, there was an official demarcation between coal/mineral engines and goods/merchandise engines.

 

The former had driving wheels under 5' diameter, the latter of 5' and over.

 

0-6-0 classes with 5'2" drivers were often regarded as mixed traffic.

[Wickham Green too]

12 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

... surnames of related persons in Census records vary in the earlier portion, simply because one or more were illiterate and that's how the census taker heard it. ...

Just think of some of the peculiar names you see on American TV programmes ...... some just plain weird but many obviously misheard by the officials on Ellis Island.

[The Johnster]

10 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

AIUI, there was an official demarcation between coal/mineral engines and goods/merchandise engines.

 

The former had driving wheels under 5' diameter, the latter of 5' and over.

 

0-6-0 classes with 5'2" drivers were often regarded as mixed traffic.

 

Not sure there was ever an official demarcation, but there was certainly a colloquial one, and by and large everyone knew what was meant by it.  It may have been official within railway companies, which is not quite the same thing.  A 'goods' engine was the Victorian equivalent of the 20th century's mixed traffic locos, usually an 0-6-0 with driving wheels of 5' or above and, after 1889, provided with vacuum or air brake hoses to work a train automatic brake.  They were used on all sorts of work, including local and even quite long-distance excursion traffic, and could run up to around 60mph.  A 'mineral' or 'coal' engine was also usually an 0-6-0, but with driving wheels of lower than 5' diameter and no brake hoses. 

 

Wheel sizes are not always a reliable method of demarcation, though.  The convention in South Wales, where traffic was handled mostly by tank engines over shortish distances and line speeds were by and large a good bit slower than elsewhere, passenger engines had driving wheels of around the 5' mark plus an inch or two, and could manage about 50mph, 'goods' engines had them around 4'6" or maybe 7", and 'mineral' were 4', maybe another inch. 

 

Typically, a Victorian railway might have a series of express passenger 4-4-0s, express goods/ordinary passenger 2-4-0s, goods 0-6-0s, and mineral 0-6-0s sharing common and even interchangeable frames, boilers, cylinders and motion.  0-4-4T and 0-6-0 tank versions might share the frames, and motion but have smaller boilers and cylinders.  Where traffic required fast, light trains, 4-2-2 singles came back into fashion following the development of steam sanding gear, an American import, and these were usually capable of sharing components with the 4-4-0s as well.

[Bucoops]

On 13/02/2024 at 18:20, The Johnster said:

Wotcher mean, these days?  Victorian documentation seems to have been the worst for spelling, slu, sloo, slue, breaks/break van, is it a signal box or a signal cabin, why is a goods engine used for mixed traffic, what is a luggage engine?

 

I've just picked up a 1950s signalling document that refers to signal cabins throughout.

[Steamport Southport]

Well Lion has 5 foot drivers which were amongst the largest used when it was built!

 

It was also designed to work at over 40MPH and pull trains of over 200 tons. I really do think people keep forgetting it was built in 1838 and was one of the first proper mainline locomotives. Even the large wheeled Cramptons were in the future.

 

There was also next to no coal and mineral traffic on the L&MR in the early days as most of it came by canal or sea. None of the local coal mines were even sunk at that point. That all happened much later. 

 

 

Jason

[Fredo]

How about some LT Coaches to go with the up coming L44 loco?

[Michael Hodgson]

On 26/03/2024 at 07:39, Dunsignalling said:

 

[1] Standardised spelling didn't really become a thing until a majority of the population became more than semi-literate, sometime in the latter half of Victoria's reign.

 

 

... and finished when a majority became at least semi-illiterate, sometimes in the latter half of Elizabeth II's.

[Jeff Smith]

55 minutes ago, Fredo said:

How about some LT Coaches to go with the up coming L44 loco?

From Wikipedia "L44 (No. 1) worked the last steam-hauled LT passenger train in 1961, and survived in use until 1965".

These may well have been Dreadnought coaches, more normally hauled by BoBo's or BR locos.

[Steamport Southport]

5 minutes ago, Jeff Smith said:

From Wikipedia "L44 (No. 1) worked the last steam-hauled LT passenger train in 1961, and survived in use until 1965".

These may well have been Dreadnought coaches, more normally hauled by BoBo's or BR locos.

 

These?

 

https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/Trains-Railways-British-Isles/LT-railways/LT-railways-Metropolitan-steam/i-S28qQKZ/A

 

I think the last of them ended up preserved on the K&WVR.

 

 

Jason

[Jeff Smith]

Yes, they are Dreadnoughts, note the shoe beam under the guards compartment.  With BoBo's these were hooked to the locomotive to prevent 'gaping' over pointwork.  I don't know if they were used for lighting or heating when steam hauled.

 

Radley made some nice resin kits which may appear under new management.....

[Fredo]

Thanks guys, its not just Dreadnoughts, it would be good to have Metropolitan Met 'Bogie' ('Chesham') sets like the one preserved on the Bluebell.

[PhilJ W]

They are available.

https://www.facebook.com/LondonModelRailways/?paipv=0&eav=Afadm8QfMmnfDECQKsl_0hC0l-FS_bGThXtNFUZpms59-zPUkPHQPQDYGOIJ7_XlKd0&_rdr

[Jeff Smith]

For those who don't do Facebook (like me)

 

https://www.cdc-design.net/metropolitan-railway-ashburys.html

[RogerTE]

On 28/03/2024 at 18:29, Fredo said:

Thanks guys, its not just Dreadnoughts, it would be good to have Metropolitan Met 'Bogie' ('Chesham') sets like the one preserved on the Bluebell.

Only problem - those were only ever pulled by LNER or LMR push-pull fitted locos, never by ex Met. locos in operation.

The Met E class locos did haul the pre-conversion Ashbury's prior to the introduction of the Dreadnoughts, and were then basically displaced by the larger classes (we need an H class - one of the most handsome steam locos ever !). They did sometimes substitute for the larger locos during WW2 hauling Dreadnought coached passenger trains north of Ricky.

[Jeff Smith]

You may have to settle for a K Class from South Eastern Finecast.....

[Steamport Southport]

Personally my interest is the fact it's something that goes with a LT Pannier!

 

https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/Trains-Railways-British-Isles/LT-railways/LT-railways-Metropolitan-steam/i-v2Q74Nw/A

 

 

 

Jason

[Jeff Smith]

The LT panniers were strictly goods haulers although may have shunted some coaches around.  Panniers were often accompanied by one or two brake vans.

[Steamport Southport]

1 minute ago, Jeff Smith said:

The LT panniers were strictly goods haulers although may have shunted some coaches around.  Panniers were often accompanied by one or two brake vans.

 

Ah. I meant the 0-4-4T. Already got a Bachmann LT liveried brake van and was looking at the one made by RT Models.

 

Not really interested in coaches, but if someone did do them I would be looking at the ones preserved at the KWVR.

 

 

Jason

[PhilJ W]

5 hours ago, RogerTE said:

Only problem - those were only ever pulled by LNER or LMR push-pull fitted locos, never by ex Met. locos in operation.

The Met E class locos did haul the pre-conversion Ashbury's prior to the introduction of the Dreadnoughts, and were then basically displaced by the larger classes (we need an H class - one of the most handsome steam locos ever !). They did sometimes substitute for the larger locos during WW2 hauling Dreadnought coached passenger trains north of Ricky.

The Chesham sets were hauled by LT locomotives to and from Neasden for overhaul. On the subject of the Chesham sets there were some differences between the two sets, IIRC one brake third had an extra passenger compartment and a smaller luggage compartment.

[Jeff Smith]

10 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Ah. I meant the 0-4-4T. Already got a Bachmann LT liveried brake van and was looking at the one made by RT Models.

 

Look at my thread below regarding the RT Models brake van.

[gwrrob]

Is this an usual Rapido wind up for April 1st ?

 

[rapidoandy]

2 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

Is this an usual Rapido wind up for April 1st ?

 

‘Usual’ windup?? You know us better than that. We wouldn’t  announce something we don’t intend to make - after all we made Titfield and the colourful APT-R didn’t we? 
 

Another 31 is really needed for the front of our train…

[Phil Bullock]

54 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

Is this an usual Rapido wind up for April 1st ?

 

31065? 

[Mol_PMB]

Southern U class? GWR Prairie? Brush type 2?