KR Models announce the Fell in OO and N.

[Michael Hodgson]

Is it just me or does the black buffer beam make that livery look odd?   I've always thought of steam's  red buffer beam as "red for danger", or a historical version of the hi-vis which we now prefer to be yellow.  I know some diesels of the era like LMS 10000 didn't have one either, but then that didn't really have a buffer beam.

[RichardT]

21 hours ago, xm607 said:

As I have been quoted, I had better show my history for this loco,

Soon to be heard at every exhibition static model display: <nasal voice> “Well, these all *look* very nice, but I’m withholding judgement until we see the other sides.” </nasal voice> 

 

Richard

Edited March 10, 2022 by RichardT
Gibberish

[cctransuk]

14 hours ago, Les1952 said:

 

VERY nice models, but putting them together does them no favours- in particular showing the windscreens on the OO and O gauge models to be of different proportions. and not quite the same angle to the vertical, though the latter could be a distortion of the lens in the broadside shot...

 

Les

 

Having a copy of a works drawing of 10100, I can state categorically that the disposition of the cab windows is very wrong on the A1 Dinosaur Diesels kit - which was why I disposed of the kit that I had bought and waited for the Judith Edge kit to appear.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Michael Edge]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Is it just me or does the black buffer beam make that livery look odd?   I've always thought of steam's  red buffer beam as "red for danger", or a historical version of the hi-vis which we now prefer to be yellow.  I know some diesels of the era like LMS 10000 didn't have one either, but then that didn't really have a buffer beam.

It does look odd - there's only a small area of red - but that's what it was like.

[jamieb]

1 hour ago, RichardT said:

Soon to be heard at every exhibition static model display: <nasal voice> “Well, these all *look* very nice, but I’m withholding judgement until we see the other sides.” </nasal voice> 

 

Richard

Don't worry,once the exhibition season starts in earnest,there will be an endless supply of previously unknown Fell experts imparting their untapped knowledge

To me,it just looks like a Class 37 with special needs!

[Steamport Southport]

2 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Is it just me or does the black buffer beam make that livery look odd?   I've always thought of steam's  red buffer beam as "red for danger", or a historical version of the hi-vis which we now prefer to be yellow.  I know some diesels of the era like LMS 10000 didn't have one either, but then that didn't really have a buffer beam.

 

TPE Class 68s don't have any warning panels and neither do the Mark Five driving cars.

 

They just rely on the lights.

 

 

Jason

[Michael Hodgson]

17 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

TPE Class 68s don't have any warning panels and neither do the Mark Five driving cars.

 

They just rely on the lights.

 

 

Jason

Indeed, but their lights are rather more conspicuous than a couple of  paraffin lamps (unlit bt day) on the front of the Fell or other steam era locos.

[RichardT]

3 hours ago, jamieb said:

Don't worry,once the exhibition season starts in earnest,there will be an endless supply of previously unknown Fell experts

I was thinking about comments on all static displays, not just Fells.
 

The Fell is out of my era, but it occurs to me that KR’s approach here might be of help to Hornby as they decide whether or not to fill the remaining gaps in their line-up of big LNER locos. If they went for a Raven A2 Pacific they could have one side numbered and lettered for any of 2400-2403 with the original Raven boiler, and the other side as 2404 “City of Ripon” with the replacement Gresley boiler fitted in the early 1930s. One accurate composite model representing the whole class!*
 

What a bang for the buck.
 

I’ll get my coat…

 

RT

 

* Obviously it could only be in mid-1930s condition with a Gresley tender as I’m not sure even Hornby could make a half-and-half 8w Gresley/6w Raven tender work, even with flangeless wheels.  

OK, that’s enough now - time for my lie down, nurse.

Edited March 10, 2022 by RichardT
Tenders

[xm607]

19 hours ago, Les1952 said:

 

VERY nice models, but putting them together does them no favours- in particular showing the windscreens on the OO and O gauge models to be of different proportions. and not quite the same angle to the vertical, though the latter could be a distortion of the lens in the broadside shot...

 

Les

 

 

 

The Judith Edge 4mm one is the most correct one, considering the effort Mike put into it, the 7mm locomotive is a scaled up 4mm kit from A1 models which has a lot of errors, some of which I managed to correct, ie main body side curve. My scratch built in N gauge is a best guess from looking at photos that I could find at the time.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

On 04/03/2022 at 17:29, Darius43 said:

That is the correct version as told by overrated course facilitators at business training events.

 

Mr Jackson’s version is much much betterer - as indeed is everything he says and does.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away.... one of my students designed an interactive booth that would provide a translation service for exhibitors at events (this all predates the internet etc)

 

The first menu had a list of languages to translate to/from.  The Dean of the Faculty decided it needed to be shown off to a bunch of Big Wigs, including the local mayor and other refined dignitaries.  The Dean invited the Major to press the 'select English' option.  On doing so, the assembled dignitaries were treated to  Mr S Jackson booming out;

 

'English, M***er F***er. Do you speak it?!'

 

from Pulp Fiction.  I have never seen a Dean turn pale so fast, nor a party of VIPs leave in such a hurry.  I laughed and laughed.

 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Dr Gerbil-Fritters

[Colin_McLeod]

1 hour ago, RichardT said:

The Fell is out of my era, but it occurs to me that KR’s approach here might be of help to Hornby as they decide whether or not to fill the remaining gaps in their line-up of big LNER locos. If they went for a Raven A2 Pacific they could have one side numbered and lettered for any of 2400-2403 with the original Raven boiler, and the other side as 2404 “City of Ripon” with the replacement Gresley boiler fitted in the early 1930s. One accurate composite model representing the whole class!*

 

How about Flying Scotsman with German smoke deflector on one side only

[Graham_Muz]

37 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

How about Flying Scotsman with German smoke deflector on one side only

 

One loco, two eras and different deflectors...

[Bernard Lamb]

On 02/03/2022 at 10:55, col.stephens said:

 

You are assuming that KR Models had the budget to pay for the CAD changes.  Maybe they didn't.

Just how much would the points highlighted by PMP cost to change?

With over 30 years experience in QA and being responsible for the checking of drawings prior to issue I would say not more than a few minutes work.

KR have a reputation for wanting people to do the leg work for them in respect of research. I have said before that I do not like their business methods and would not but any of their products. There have been far too many contradictory statements from them. However I do take an interest in the hobby in a wider context and will comment on remarks posted by the ignorant. Irrespective of budgets one would think that a fairly new kid on the block would want to get things right.

Bernard

[Torbay Express]

So will the Fell be accurate or not?  That is the question.

[Darius43]

10 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

However I  will comment on remarks posted by the ignorant.

How privileged we all are that you are here to rescue us from our well of ignorance.

 

Darius

[Darius43]

8 minutes ago, Torbay Express said:

So will the Fell be accurate or not?  That is the question.

Yes but no but yes but no but yes but no…

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[chris p bacon]

10 minutes ago, Darius43 said:

How privileged I am we all are that you are here to rescue us me from our  my well of ignorance.

 

Darius

Speak for yourself, not others.

[Matt C]

1 hour ago, chris p bacon said:

Speak for yourself, not others.

 

Your evidence to say he ISN'T speaking for others ?  He echoed my sentiments exactly 

[St. Simon]

2 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Just how much would the points highlighted by PMP cost to change?

With over 30 years experience in QA and being responsible for the checking of drawings prior to issue I would say not more than a few minutes work.

Ahhhh, the “it’s only a few minutes work”comment.

 

I’ve been caught out like before on the Western APCO project, “it’ll only be two weeks work” I was told, 4 years later I was still working on it!

 

‘Simple’ CAD changes can sometimes  mean taking a large swathe of a CAD model, deleting and rebuilding it, simply because it is easier. This sort of change can run into hours, then you might have to change several CAD models or drawings, then you have to check them, then someone else might have to check it, then KR has to check, the CAD engineer may have to change it again etc. etc. A few minutes can turn into a whole week before you know it.
 

Now, my time is charged at several 10s of pounds an hour to a project, and I’m just a 2D CAD Monkey really (there is other reasons my time costs so much, and we aren’t the cheapest on the market!), so imagine how much a 3D CAD engineer may cost (even in ‘lower cost’ China). ‘Simple changes’ can run into several hundred pounds which a small model company may not wish to outlay. 
 

I’m not saying that this is the reason that changes weren’t made nor do I agree that they shouldn’t have been made, but it’s never as simple as “you can just change it in a few minutes”.

 

Simon

[Torbay Express]

4 hours ago, Darius43 said:

Yes but no but yes but no but yes but no…

 

Cheers

 

Darius

Thank you for a definite answer.  

 

TBH, I am not too sure how prevalent the inaccuracies are.  Without trying to add flames to a burning fire - where does this put KR in the future?  The Dad's the MD and Son the researcher - is that a healthy relationship to ensure models are void of mistakes and deliver accountability?  Will modellers continue to support a venture where the business requires their cash up front, and sells a promise, when the model may have detail issues?  Such a business model, requires the customer to have lots of faith, which needs to be repaid by producing well researched and accurate models.  

 

[chris p bacon]

11 hours ago, Matt C said:

Your evidence to say he ISN'T speaking for others

The fact I disagree is enough evidence, his statement was 

 

Quote

How privileged we all are

 

Do you need more?

[Matt C]

24 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

The fact I disagree is enough evidence, his statement was 

 

 

Do you need more?

 

Ahh I see so you probably should have said "speak for yourself, not for ME" as you have no right to tell him what he can or can't say on an open forum on behalf of others ? That's for THEM to say 

 

Anyway as I'm not buying one ( can't afford it) and AFAIA your not buying one ? Why don't we leave the thread to those who actually are. It's getting quite tiring reading pages and pages of negative comments posted by a few members who aren't buying one but can't help coming back time and again to repeat the same comments the moment someone dares to post anything positive

 

Oh and no I'm NOT telling anyone what, where or when they can or can't post, I'm SUGGESTING maybe it's time to give it a break 

 

 back to the Fell

[Bucoops]

11 hours ago, St. Simon said:

Ahhhh, the “it’s only a few minutes work”comment.

 

I’ve been caught out like before on the Western APCO project, “it’ll only be two weeks work” I was told, 4 years later I was still working on it!

 

‘Simple’ CAD changes can sometimes  mean taking a large swathe of a CAD model, deleting and rebuilding it, simply because it is easier. This sort of change can run into hours, then you might have to change several CAD models or drawings, then you have to check them, then someone else might have to check it, then KR has to check, the CAD engineer may have to change it again etc. etc. A few minutes can turn into a whole week before you know it.
 

Now, my time is charged at several 10s of pounds an hour to a project, and I’m just a 2D CAD Monkey really (there is other reasons my time costs so much, and we aren’t the cheapest on the market!), so imagine how much a 3D CAD engineer may cost (even in ‘lower cost’ China). ‘Simple changes’ can run into several hundred pounds which a small model company may not wish to outlay. 
 

I’m not saying that this is the reason that changes weren’t made nor do I agree that they shouldn’t have been made, but it’s never as simple as “you can just change it in a few minutes”.

 

Simon

 

Can relate - 

 

"Can you come into the office for a couple of weeks to help with some data as you like computers".

 

That was 10 years ago in April, still there!

 

[Bucoops]

11 hours ago, St. Simon said:

Ahhhh, the “it’s only a few minutes work”comment.

 

I’ve been caught out like before on the Western APCO project, “it’ll only be two weeks work” I was told, 4 years later I was still working on it!

 

‘Simple’ CAD changes can sometimes  mean taking a large swathe of a CAD model, deleting and rebuilding it, simply because it is easier. This sort of change can run into hours, then you might have to change several CAD models or drawings, then you have to check them, then someone else might have to check it, then KR has to check, the CAD engineer may have to change it again etc. etc. A few minutes can turn into a whole week before you know it.
 

Now, my time is charged at several 10s of pounds an hour to a project, and I’m just a 2D CAD Monkey really (there is other reasons my time costs so much, and we aren’t the cheapest on the market!), so imagine how much a 3D CAD engineer may cost (even in ‘lower cost’ China). ‘Simple changes’ can run into several hundred pounds which a small model company may not wish to outlay. 
 

I’m not saying that this is the reason that changes weren’t made nor do I agree that they shouldn’t have been made, but it’s never as simple as “you can just change it in a few minutes”.

 

Simon

 

Can relate - 

 

"Can you come into the office for a couple of weeks to help with some data as you like computers".

 

That was 10 years ago in April, still there!

 

[The Stationmaster]

11 hours ago, St. Simon said:

Ahhhh, the “it’s only a few minutes work”comment.

 

I’ve been caught out like before on the Western APCO project, “it’ll only be two weeks work” I was told, 4 years later I was still working on it!

 

‘Simple’ CAD changes can sometimes  mean taking a large swathe of a CAD model, deleting and rebuilding it, simply because it is easier. This sort of change can run into hours, then you might have to change several CAD models or drawings, then you have to check them, then someone else might have to check it, then KR has to check, the CAD engineer may have to change it again etc. etc. A few minutes can turn into a whole week before you know it.
 

Now, my time is charged at several 10s of pounds an hour to a project, and I’m just a 2D CAD Monkey really (there is other reasons my time costs so much, and we aren’t the cheapest on the market!), so imagine how much a 3D CAD engineer may cost (even in ‘lower cost’ China). ‘Simple changes’ can run into several hundred pounds which a small model company may not wish to outlay. 
 

I’m not saying that this is the reason that changes weren’t made nor do I agree that they shouldn’t have been made, but it’s never as simple as “you can just change it in a few minutes”.

 

Simon

But actually the cost of the CAD is a relatively small part of the overall costs of developing a model and inevitably the good old quality process mantra of 'get it right first time' means that it will cost even less although that is I reckon a state of Nirvana for many model railway items.

 

But CADs need careful independent checking by people who know exactly what they are looking at and even then a small error might creep through.  And don't forget - some really good software to do that won't cost you anything as it's available as a free download.  But if the research is done properly and thoroughly before work starts on the CAD that will always be the best way to avoid big errors in the CAD and thus avoid the need for a major rework or starting again from scratch.  And it's a massive amount cheaper to alter a CAD than it is to alter a tool or, even worse, have to scrap a tool and start again.