Bachmann Class 30/31

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

Prefere the KD couplers so not something i would shell out for on a model.

[Mike Buckner]

14 hours ago, Mike Buckner said:

 

There seems to be no mention of Stay-Alive on any of the levels of DCC (including the full-fat SFX).
Will probably have to wait until locos are in the hands of modellers, to find out the best type to fit - if there is room.

 

 

 

9 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

A heavy diesel with 12 wheel pick up doesnt need Stay Alive in my experience

 

I appreciate what you're saying, but on the other hand:

 

- there are a number of posts around the forum where it's mentioned that slight temporary interruptions in supply can cause sound decoders to cough or enter a re-start sequence, even though the mechanical momentum of the loco causes no discernible stutter

 

- it simplifies layout construction and reduces cost to use dead frog turnouts

 

- Accurascale have thought it wise to include stay-alive in their highly-regarded heavy diesels

 

- the Bachmann model has "Electrical pickup from all outer wheels on each bogie"

 

https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/product/category/916/class-31-1-31123-br-blue/35-805sfx

 

 

 

Edited February 9 by Mike Buckner

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

10 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

A heavy diesel with 12 wheel pick up doesn't need Stay Alive in my experience

Quite, and moreover I have found no need for stay alive in my 20 some years with DCC on an all live crossing , metal wheels on all stock, layout operation, even with small 0-6-0T. The advertised attractions of the Lenz 'Uninterruptible Power Supply' unit - based on my previous half a lifetime experience of DC operation led me to purchase and experiment with it, and it did all it said it would. But it proved totally redundant, the DCC constant supply on all metal track reliably 'punches through'; and consequently the Lenz UPS-1 went off to a set track based DCC operation which could use its assistance.

28 minutes ago, Mike Buckner said:

there are a number of posts around the forum where it's mentioned that slight temporary interruptions in supply can cause sound decoders to cough or enter a re-start sequence, even though the mechanical momentum of the loco causes no discernible stutter

 

- it simplifies layout construction and reduces cost to use dead frog turnouts

 

- Accurascale have thought it wise to include stay-alive in their highly-regarded heavy diesels

 

- the Bachmann model has "Electrical pickup from all outer wheels on each bogie"

And this is a 'horses for courses' matter.  If you need it, then use it. If you don't need it, then that's one fewer thing to purchase.

[The Black Hat]

12 hours ago, nightstar.train said:

I think it's interesting to compare this announcement to the new class 37. Obviously this model was already well advanced in development when Accurascale announced theirs and so couldn't be cancelled. Bachmann have been sensible in choosing (mostly) liveries not done by Accurascale, so there should be space in the market for them. What I find most interesting is their pricing strategy. I think that Bachmann have had their fingers burnt with the class 37 with many variants not selling well and ending up heavily discounted. I've always attributed this to the fact it was significantly more than the Accurascale model, with virtually nothing to differentiate them detail and spec wise. With the class 30/31 they have priced it in such a way so that, after the usual retailer reduction, they are basically the same price as Accurascale. And £40 extra for the auto uncoupling is a very keen price. There are no variants in this run by Bachmann that I want, but if they had done a Wessex trains pink, a Railtrack blue/green, Reggie Rail, Intercity or a Fragonset model I would've jumped in for a sound deluxe model. I do think that the Mainline model may be a misstep and end up cheap after a while. Accurascale are doing the exact same loco, and it is a limited edition by them. Tellingly it hasn't sold out at Accurascale, unlike the EWS limited edition that was announced at the same time. 

 

Bachmann usually announce Green and Blue Period releases as one batch, then some other later liveries as a second before back to Blue and Green and then later again. The later ones normally shift between either sectorisation and into privitisation and current privitisation liveries too, when its their turn. Here Bachmann look to be casting the net a bit wider and doing more by releasing more as other companies are doing. Its about time rather than the 3 models per batch that has been done. 

As regards choices, I saw the pre-production pictures and hoped they would be going for popular choices straight away. The Blue and Green versions I can understand given the tooling and period chosen, but given Bachmann's price point is bound to be much higher than Accurascale I thought thats the part they should have used to get people to go for their version. Choices such as 31/5 in Civil Engineers Dutch, Regional Railways, Trainload Coal (to go with nuke wagons), Fragonset (the plain black one was never done) or 31454. Easy choices would have been any of the last 4 for EWS, save the EWS one itself. Personal best idea would have been 31110 in green, with the disks and modern headlight or 31190.  

Others have said that Bachmann have been hit by the class 37 not shifting and to be honest I can see the same happening here... 

[georgeds]

On the flip side stay alive is not desirable for those with a large layout due to the voltage spike when you first power up the layout. See Making Tracks. All the stay alives trip their controllers out.

 

Not sure how many is too many, but think about this. For me I can have say 30 locos on my depot, plus a few DMUs/EMUs in the carriage sidings and now even some of the coaches for example Mk5s, all trying to charge their stay alives at the same time. Not an issue currently as I have a limited number with stay alives fitted. Just AS ones basically.

 

I have no running issues with locos not fitted with stay alives, even sound fitted.

[Fredo]

Hi,

Thanks for the last post. Do you think D5579 in Golden Ochre with a small yellow warning could be possible. Also Finsbury Park 31’s that were fitted with trip cocks to work on underground lines. Thanks fred

 

Edited February 9 by Fredo

[Roy Langridge]

2 hours ago, georgeds said:

On the flip side stay alive is not desirable for those with a large layout due to the voltage spike when you first power up the layout. See Making Tracks. All the stay alives trip their controllers out.

 

 

Although, as has been discussed, not an issue if that layout is designed and built with power districts that spread that load. My branch / depot layout which is 22ft long x 2ft has six districts, each with their own supply and cut-outs. Two of those are for the depot section, one each for the two boards that make up the station and approach and 2 for the fiddle yard.

 

I use these on each district, each of which have their own 5A power supply with the cut out triggering at 3A: https://www.merg.org.uk/merg_wiki/doku.php?id=kits:57

 

I have not had and do not envisage having issues.

 

Roy

[47423]

17 hours ago, Gilbert said:

Which edition was that in? - sadly I have them all....Thanks

Number 101. October 2004.

[brushman47544]

1 hour ago, Fredo said:

Also Finsbury Park 31’s that were fitted with trip cocks to work on underground lines. Thanks fred

 

If Bachmann has any sense it will steer clear of tripcock fitted 31s for the time being, as they would be a direct duplication of Accurascale versions. Much better to focus on liveries and tooling options that do not currently feature in Accurascale's announcements.

[Fredo]

Thanks 

[NickL2008]

3 hours ago, brushman47544 said:

 

If Bachmann has any sense it will steer clear of tripcock fitted 31s for the time being, as they would be a direct duplication of Accurascale versions. Much better to focus on liveries and tooling options that do not currently feature in Accurascale's announcements.

At some point it probably wont be avoidable, so long as the running numbers are differemt, the 31s carried a decent amount of liveries so the BR green + blue and even the Dutch ones will be "duplicates" livery wise. id say if Bachmann did a Railfrieght grey with yellow ends, with the Normal headcode box thatd be a livery replication, but A/S are only doing that livery as a Skinhead, or with the red striple. If they also did more recent liveries such as DCR Green / Grey , Wessex Trains Pink, even Fragonset theyd be ahead of A/S

 

NL

[adb968008]

For something many think may struggle, this thread has 185 replies and 11k views, in 3 days.

The class 25 retool announced 6 years and 31 days ago has achieved 46.6k views 289 replies.

 

The timing is key, people are getting ready for a 31, they just werent expecting this one.

Edited February 9 by adb968008

[georgeds]

5 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

Although, as has been discussed, not an issue if that layout is designed and built with power districts that spread that load. My branch / depot layout which is 22ft long x 2ft has six districts, each with their own supply and cut-outs. Two of those are for the depot section, one each for the two boards that make up the station and approach and 2 for the fiddle yard.

 

I use these on each district, each of which have their own 5A power supply with the cut out triggering at 3A: https://www.merg.org.uk/merg_wiki/doku.php?id=kits:57

 

I have not had and do not envisage having issues.

 

Roy

Very true and also arguably overkill for most situations stay alives excluded.

[Roy Langridge]

1 hour ago, georgeds said:

Very true and also arguably overkill for most situations stay alives excluded.

Over kill or future proofing? When I was trained as an apprentice electronics engineer, more years ago that I care to remember, I was always taught to consider future expansion.
 

Yes, the bean-counters would say that was over engineering, but in reality it paid for itself more times than not. 
 

Roy

[SRman]

Having now seen the prices in Kernow's newsletter, it looks like they'll be very competitive, although to be fair, Accurascale's model promises a working fan, whereas to get that feature on the Bachmann model, one has to pay a premium for the deluxe model. Likewise, from what I can understand in the specifications, the auto uncoupling feature in Bachmann's model only applies to the deluxe model.

Still, it will be interesting to see how the sales pan out.

Personally, I have only one 30/31 on order, and that is an Accurascale model with LT tripcocks.

[brushman47544]

10 hours ago, SRman said:

Having now seen the prices in Kernow's newsletter, it looks like they'll be very competitive, although to be fair, Accurascale's model promises a working fan, whereas to get that feature on the Bachmann model, one has to pay a premium for the deluxe model. Likewise, from what I can understand in the specifications, the auto uncoupling feature in Bachmann's model only applies to the deluxe model.

 
For me, a working fan is an irrelevance so not something I would pay extra for on its own, whereas the auto uncoupler is interesting and I would be happy to pay that, or indeed for both. But I am not willing to pay the extra for the SFX model to get them because I don’t want sound. When Bachmann first released its new 47, they said that the tinted windows could in future appear on non-sound models depending on the reaction to it. We’ve now had 37s and 31s with the tinted windows on the SFX models only, so so far Bachmann is keeping some “extra” features to the most expensive versions only. If they sell well that’s fine, but I’m sure there are plenty of us who aren’t interested in paying for sound to get them. A shame but there we are… understandably Bachmann (or any manufacturer for that matter) can’t please everyone.

[Mike Buckner]

 

It's a general phenomenon. 

 

When you buy a car, it has features you don't want / will never use / you don't even know are there. The car I recently sold had heated door mirrors. I never found out how to switch them on/off, or even if it's possible to switch them on/off. I may have been running around for 11 years with them permanently on. Perhaps that's why the battery kept going flat.

 

It's the same with my TV. A higher-end model recommended by Which, it has all sorts of stuff I don't need or want. You would need a 2-day seminar to find out how to use the thing. It has internet channels exclusive to the TV manufacturer. Took one look, won't bother again - it was a billiards match between drunks in a back-street Mexican bar.

 

 

[meatloaf]

TMC have announced a limited edition

 

https://www.themodelcentre.com/35-825ysf

[brushman47544]

14 minutes ago, meatloaf said:

TMC have announced a limited edition

 

https://www.themodelcentre.com/35-825ysf

Y follows Z in Bachmann limited edition numbering, so there’s another limited edition out there using the same tooling options still to be announced - 35-825Z. Whose I wonder… my money is on KMRC.

Edited February 10 by brushman47544
Add info

[GordonC]

1 hour ago, brushman47544 said:

Y follows Z in Bachmann limited edition numbering, so there’s another limited edition out there using the same tooling options still to be announced - 35-825Z. Whose I wonder… my money is on KMRC.

 

or Bachmann Collectors Club

[Paul.Uni]

21 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

or Bachmann Collectors Club

BCC models have the K suffix

[SouthernMafia]

2 hours ago, meatloaf said:

TMC have announced a limited edition

 

https://www.themodelcentre.com/35-825ysf

 

A welcome privatisation announcement, but did they have to do 31452 as Hornby have done it? Couldn't have had 31128, 31454 31459 or 31602? Hopefully Kernow pull a Wessex trains one out the bag.

[Ravenser]

At one level, the commercial success or otherwise of this model is not really our problem as modellers. (At another level, it is not in our interests to see manufacturers weakened/fail, and  the commercial success of all significant RTR manufacturers is a positive for the hobby)

 

So one way to view this is "what new resources  do we have, what new opportunities does this open up for us?" . What have we as modellers got this Saturday that we didn't have last Saturday?

 

Since last Saturday we already had a state of the art Brush 2 in OO imminently available for those who don't want to buy the current Hornby model, or require varients not done by Hornby , I'm struggling to see anything.

 

Which of these two new models will "win out" is a different question. It will probably take a couple of years after release before we can say that a model has or hasn't been commercially successful , and even then it's  not clear cut. I'm sure there will be people still ready to argue that Hattons' 66 was a commercial success as a project

 

Someone said that Accurascale announced their model just on 2 years ago. In which case they've had 2 years to mop up demand for a new Brush 2 and lock it in by means of pre-orders. Why people would cancel those pre-orders  in order to buy this instead isn't obvious. I'm not clear why it is preferable for Brush 2s to get the Bachmann Treatment as opposed to the Accurascale Treatment (or vice versa, though AS have been out in the market  with this for a long time now)

 

The only thing that has been mentioned so far is DCC auto-uncoupling. Yes I could find a use for that - but I'm a Kadee user, and I presume this is a mechanised  tensionlock.

 

Otherwise - I was already struggling to find a reason to spend £170 on an AS Brush 2 , even though the layout uses two Class 31s  (which I already have...). I find it an even bigger struggle to find a reason to buy this instead. I'm open to more Type 2s, but that involves making use of the moderate pile of stuff/bits/old locos I've already got 

 

We can come back in summer 2026 to discuss whether this was the right commercial decision for Bachmann. In the meantime the questions seem to be what extra does this bring to the table for modellers, and is this model noticably better than the Accurascale one?

[nightstar.train]

2 hours ago, Ravenser said:

 

We can come back in summer 2026 to discuss whether this was the right commercial decision for Bachmann. In the meantime the questions seem to be what extra does this bring to the table for modellers, and is this model noticably better than the Accurascale one?

Whilst I can’t speak to the spec and if it is better than the Accurascale one, apart from the auto uncoupler of course, it is different. Bachmann have very sensibly gone for models, in the most part, that Accurascale aren’t producing in their first two runs. Presumably Bachmann had a list of planned variants they wanted to do, and when Accurascale announced theirs two years ago Bachmann were able to pivot and change so as to produce several liveries that AS aren’t. Many on these pages have been delighted with the red stripe rail freight and the Petroleum sector liveries. So they are bringing something extra to the table for modellers. 
 

As to whether or not this will be a success for Bachmann, time will tell. But a quick browse through Rails of Sheffield shows that most of the Sound Fitted Deluxe models are sold out already, and only 4 days after announcement. 

[Legend]

Still perplexed by this .  I would have thought that although under development for years Bachmann would have pulled the plug when Accurascale announced theirs 2 years ago. The expensive part was tooling , so manufacturers say , which given that this is only now reaching market ,probably only happened after the Accurascale announcement , so I’d have pulled the plug then . If Kader resources are so precious why waste it on a 30/31. Most people will have already committed to the Accurascale one and unlikely to change  .  This is just a waste of resources. Unlike Hornby ,which have a following outside  the mainstream hobby ,Bachmann don’t have such a following and will be known of by enthusiasts in much the same way as Accurascale, who have already got the orders . So pickings for a 30/31 must be lean . Meanwhile where is the 25 announced years ago ? Where is it? Wouldn’t they have been better bringing this to the market, both for enthusiasts and their balance sheet . In a similar vein we have the 170 . Bachmann produced it but an update is in abeyance or cancelled …..we don’t know because of vague statements , but it’s preventing others from producing one because the risk of duplication is so high . The dead hand of Bachmann is to the detriment of the hobby . Then there is the 313 . Revolution aren’t upscaling their N one because they’ve told me someone is doing it in OO . Accurascale have confirmed it’s not them that’s making it .I really wonder if it was Bachmann and if that is still the case . If it’s Bachmann then have they taken cold feet over the likely price ? But again wouldn’t you prefer something new against pointless duplication? 
 

Sorry but I’m viewing this announcement as a complete waste of time . So many other models available to model .  And cynically look at the pricing . Once 15% discount deducted this will bring it to the same price as Accurascale - while we know Bachman. Typically charge top dollar £45 for an OTA or £60 for a mark 1! I wonder how much the 69 where there’s no competition will cost - I bet it won’t be £199 ! 
 

I really don’t know who approved this for production . I appreciate that there may have been man hours invested in the 30/31 but that’s not the point . The point is maximising revenue and given that the 30/31 has competition from Accurascale and Hornby in both Main stream and Railroad form  the decision to progress is mad . It’s not a duplication but a quadruplication , and that’s not including those that are happy with their Airfix and Lima models . Truly baffling and not good for the hobby .